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Thuja Life Expectancy
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Posted by dolly26 z5 IN (My Page) on Sat, Apr 4, 09 at 17:43
| My sister raves about Thuja Green Giant and I must admit they are beautiful, lush and quick growing. My concern is that, as with many quick growing trees, its best years will soon be past leaving me with something that will need to be removed and replaced. I recently lost a beautiful Bradford pear and the tulip poplars that grew so quickly have brittle limbs that break and drop.
Is there a reasonable expectation that they will be nice for another twenty years? I'm no spring chicken and don't have time for trial and error! :-)
Dolly - aka- Vicki
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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- Posted by bboy z8 WA USA (My Page) on
Sat, Apr 4, 09 at 19:22
| The parent species are long-lived trees, lasting for centuries on good sites. That is the key with arborvitaes: providing good conditions so they do not become gaunt with age. Scraggly Thuja occidentalis you may have seen on other properties will not be suffering from old age so much as poor site conditions. |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| Indeed, the oldest wild Thuja plicata are over 1,000 years old. They reach heights of over 200 feet and diameters of over 20 meters, making them some of the most massive trees in the world (after the Giant Sequoias, the Coast Redwoods, and one unusually large Montezuma Cypress). On that subject, does anyone know where I could get wild-type plants, such as wild Thuja plicata? Or am I stuck driving to Washington and getting cuttings to root if I want one? They're one of the few giants that's tolerant of cold weather. And to top it off, they like shade, can tolerate poorly-drained soil, and grow quickly. I got my parents some sequoias for their land, but they're marginal there (at best), and if they don't make it, I'd like to try some wild Thuja plicata. |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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- Posted by bboy z8 WA USA (My Page) on
Sat, Apr 4, 09 at 21:50
| You should be able to grow it from seed. Try to get wild origin seed from someone in Idaho or Montana. Coastal origin seed will be likely to be less hardy. |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| Thuja x 'Green Giant' is believed to be a cross between T. standishi and T. plicata and both of these species are long lived. The original is located at the National Arboretum and is a very large tree. I seem to remember that it is about 30+ feet high and approx. 15 feet in diameter. It was about 10 years ago that I saw them last and I know they are still there. Thuja occidentalis as a species rarely lives longer than 100 years in their natural environment. They are victims of their own growing habits. They grow somewhat narrow and tall with roots that only extend to the drip line and are shallow. They will eventually get top heavy and simply fall over. As with everything there are exceptions. The Thuja occidentalis growing in the Niagara Escarpment are hundreds of years old but they are not large trees. Their growth is stunted by the environment they grow in. Bill |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| Provided growing conditions to its' liking, T. occidentalis is the quintessential long-lived tree, age ultimately being measured in centuries. Bills' comments above, while true, paint a somewhat misleading picture IMO. There is a tendency towards this tree being blown over by the wind, but it is not as if they all suffer this fate. Disturbance of the area by logging, construction, agriculture, etc. is typically needed to set this into motion. I would speculate that under good growing conditions, a lifespan of 400 years is possible. I base this off the estimated age of a stand of T. o... growing on an island just north of Munising MI. in Lake Superior, about which, there is record of a devastating forest fire having occurred roughly 400 hundred years ago, resulting in the near pure stand of this tree that is there now. I have more than a little bit of experience with this tree, as the location where I live, and even more so, the location of the property I own 59 miles north of here, is Thuja o. central. +oM |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| Like I said, there are exceptions. The Thuja occidentalis at the Niagara Escarpment are over 1000 years old. Even old specimens growing in many cemetaries rarely live more than 100 years. To get back to you original question, I would feel conifident stating that none of us here are likely to see a speciman we plant tople over from old age regardless of the species you choose. Bill |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| What is the typical habit of T. occidentalis in natural stands? Single leader or multiple leaders more common? I've seen a few Thuja growing by themselves that have a beautiful perfect cone shape down to the ground, surprising to see them look like a stylized x-mas tree compared to what you see planted in rows or next to houses. |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| I used to go to Canada every year on vacation and Thuja occidentalis was in the majority of trees that were growing in that area. While both habits are known I think the majority had single leaders. I saw both but don't remember too many with multiple leaders. Bill |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| You get multiple leaders on cultivated trees, mainly because the nurseries shear them to make foliage denser for selling, which damages the apical point, and perhaps also because they originate from cuttings, not seed. Resin |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| A quick evaluation here in Illinois. My father and his father planted a hedge of Thuja occ. when my dad was about 10 years old in 1950. Said are 25 plus a few feet and beginning to lean (this showing only in the last 5 years - going to fall over someday in other words) as well as experiencing now snow damage resulting on limbs 6"-8" in diameter (wow!). I would speculate immediately these are seed grown on looks alone. Soil is perfect meaty black gold, no clay; rainfall is near perfect in all seasons, and the heat of our sunlight could literally cook an egg on any concrete surface... which I would tend to think are very good qualities for overall vigor of any full sun plants. Dax |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| I am growing a few regular Thuja plicata. They are generally available in nurseries. They look a lot like Green Giants. These should be the same as any "wild" seedlings you would get, although the 'provenance' or seed source, thus the strain and its adaptability, may vary. There are also some special Thuja plicata cultivars you can get, showing some special characteristics that may be attractive or interesting. My Thuja plicatas are very young--about 5 feet tall--but there are a few about 70 years old growing at the Virginia Arobretum, and they look just fine. It is a myth that fast growing trees are short lived. The fastest growing conifer along the Pacific Coast, I believe anyway, is the redwood, and it lives for 2,000 years or more. The fastest growing tree in the Sierra Nevada mountains, is the Giant Sequoia, and it lives to be even older. Two of the fastest growing trees here in the eastern US are tuliptree--400 years plus, and the sycamore, 600 years plus!! So get that stupid myth out of your head! --Spruce |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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- Posted by botann z8 SEof Seattle (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 6, 09 at 13:34
Here I am standing in the trunk of a Western Red Cedar on Vancouver Island, Canada. I wish my wife would have stood further away when she took the picture so you can see the diameter of it.
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RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| Yes Noki, as billb and resin have stated, the straight species is primarily a single-leader tree. It can form multiple leaders but these are relatively rare. Another interesting thing that happens with this species is that, when one does get tipped by the wind, but not to the point where all roots are broken, what were more or less horizontally oriented branches can assume the role of individual leaders, such that the tree can now have multiple stems growing vertically from its now horizontal trunk. I've got a big one on my land that tipped and got hung up in others of the same species. It continues to grow with these branches now reaching straight vertically for the sky. In case it's not obvious, I find the genus Thuja quite fascinating! +oM |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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- Posted by botann z8 SEof Seattle (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 6, 09 at 21:12
Here's another one. It's down in the lower part of my garden. Most in my area that have any significant age have multiple tops. The surrounding forest has been cut away over the years, leaving them exposed to the wind.
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RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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- Posted by bboy z8 WA USA (My Page) on
Tue, Apr 7, 09 at 1:19
| That one is now big enough to have been skipped over by logging, date back to the original forest. The giant ancient remaining ones on the outer coast all have broken tops because the rest of the tree remains standing through high winds that may sometimes even knock most of the rest of the stand down around them. |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| Whoa! Just now checking in after a brief absence. Thank you all for sharing your experience and comments. Botann, thanks for the pix. Spruce, consider stupid myth excised from head. +oM, I may become a fan of thuja as well if all you say is true. Dax, thanks for the Midwestern perspective. Bill, Karen, bboy, Resin, thanks to you all for taking the time to weigh in. Vicki |
RE: Thuja Life Expectancy
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| I think the Green Giant is a great tree, just don't by it from thujagardens.com. The trees they send are about 1/4 the size of the tree they show in there sample picture. The Better Business Bureau give them a giant F with a warning. Look them up at the BBB by their phone number. I support the tree. I just don't want anyone to make the same mistake I made. I think the Green Giant is a great tree, just don't by it from thujagardens.com. The trees they send are about 1/4 the size of the tree they show in there sample picture. The Better Business Bureau give them a giant F with a warning. Look them up at the BBB by their phone number. I support the tree. I just don't want anyone to make the same mistake I made. I am trying to spread the word. Has any one else been cheated by this company. They will not answer email or phone messages after you pay. |
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