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whaas_5a

Someone get me a doctor!

whaas_5a
9 years ago

Wishingful thinking!

Here is a sampling of the damage in my yard.

Its quite obvious that young non-established plants are unable to handle the winter that hit us this past season. Its not getting any better either. Highs in the 30s today and soil is actually frozen solid in most locations. Everything shown has been in the ground 2 to 4 years.

Few observations...

Anything zone 5 had damage. Many have already died but some should make it through.

Anything zone 4 or lower like Pinus cembra, Pinus koraiensis, Picea pungens, P. glauca and P. abies had little to no damage. In fact they looked as if we had a normal winter. Not really a surprise by any means.

Pinus parviflora was surprisingly resilient. Only lost one cultivar and the rest had little to no damage.

Picea orientalis was surprisingly extremely weak. No way would I ever recommend this species' cultivars for zone 4, let alone the lower end of zone 5. This species by far had the most casualties and damage all across the board.

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Comments (25)

  • ritmatt
    9 years ago

    Oh, man. That's terrible. So sorry for your losses. Wow.

  • gardener365
    9 years ago

    How's your Spanish fir? lol

    That's not a nice way to begin a response.

    You guys above Hwy. 20 live in a completely different world than the zone 5 below. I've been digging for 2 weeks. No frost anywhere on the rolling hills of my property.

    I'll let you know how my 20 some PIcea orientalis seedlings that are 12-18" tall do. They're burnt and we had -14 here just two nights, so it wasn't a long time those temps hung around. If they die though, which they can, I'll write a thread. My Nordmann's aren't 'aesthetically pleasing either.'

    Keep us informed. I'm interested to see what happens to your stuff.

    Dax

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    9 years ago

    Oh dearâ¦.boo hooâ¦so sorry. I have so many 'freeze' casualties, too, but they are not woody plants of this quality (although they have left some enormous holes in the landscape). Seems like a lot of us in different areas of the country are having learning experiences after this last winter. I for one have had enough learning for a little while!
    Sara

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    i am surprised at how little snow cover you had ...

    i have much of the same.. not quite as bad ..... but with 2 to 3 foot green parts that were under snow all winter ... and of course.. those completely covered were fine ....

    in fact i have some very bizarre rabbit damage.. that is 2 to 3 feet up a tree or shrub ... lol ...

    ken

  • SidewaysLS4
    9 years ago

    Rabbit damage...yep, almost 1/2 of 1 of my 2 baby Degroots got eaten (it wasn't buried under snow...dinner time). Ticked me off for sure, hopefully it'll match sort of once it is growing time again.

    Thankfully those little buggers froze and they aren't gobbling up my tulips this spring. Last couple years I was overrun with them with the mild winters we had

  • monkeytreeboy15
    9 years ago

    Hey, Will.

    So sorry to see the losses from your collection! Looks pretty devastating.

    It's just that pesky global warming. ;-)

    -Sam

  • severnside
    9 years ago

    Damn Will, I'm sure I've said it before, you're stoical. I'd be in pieces.

    Cherish the plants that came through.

  • baxswoh
    9 years ago

    Brutal pics. Ouch.

    I second the comments on rabbit damage. It was the worst ever around here. Several other ACS members in this area experienced the wrath of the rabbit.

  • Cher
    9 years ago

    That is horrible. So sad to see this kind of loss. I am waiting to see if anything leafs back out here before counting my losses. I think my conifers look ok so far but want to evaluate them more thoroughly after the rain that's been going on for a few days. I learned a lesson also. Don't think I want to get much that isn't zone 4 from now on and I thought I was done. Can't wait to see if my Japanese Maples are ok.
    Cher

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    the next question... knowing your predisposition to perfection ...

    will you be allowing them to stay long enough to see what, if anything, happens ...

    or are they already on the burn pile ... if not in fact.. already in your mind????

    you comments are a bit vague as to bud viability ... as much damage as i have.;.. i am surprised how many buds look fully viable... subject triggering growth and a freeze ...

    ken

  • wisconsitom
    9 years ago

    a la Ken; What is/are the buds condition? Despite tough look, much if not all could bounce back.

    Whaas, I know we discussed earlier. I have now seen a few things further north impacted-usually roadside, usually pine (or Taxus) and usually not a part of a forest, but rather, a "landscape plant".

    One thing I find interesting: I've often remarked on the fact that much of my Oconto Cty. woods consists of native Thuja occidentalis. I have also mentioned my gimmick-planting of a handful of Thuja "Green Giants" up in same area. This year, the difference in winter tolerance is striking. The GGs are a nice shade of brown, the natives are just as green now as they were in November. Not saying the GGs are dead or dying, just that they look ugly compared to the fit and healthy native trees. I don't think I'll be bothering with the GGs anymore up there, although I still think it has promise as a landscape plant up into Z5 (Land is Z4).

    I too hope your stuff is able to bounce back. Looks pretty grim right now.

    +oM

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    no impact at all on my 50 GGs ...

    how long ago were they planted +om????

    ken

  • outback63 Dennison
    9 years ago

    Sorry about your loss.

    That's substantial.

    Like others have said...wait for bud break and go from there.

    Dave

  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    To all, thought I just share some observations and back it up wtih some pics. My yard is still loaded with plants that aren't effected so its not all doom and gloom, lol.

    The only two zone pushing plants I had where Abies pinsapo and Pinus thunbergii. Thundercloud died over a month ago.

    The top half of Abies pinsapo is dead, I'll likely cut the top half off and see what it does. I meant to grow it as a globe anyhow

    I don't look at the buds as they don't tell you anything at this point.

    Start with the movst vigorous shoots, if your cambium is brown and dried out, your done with the current year buds.

    Next step is to check the cambium at the main branches off the trunk to see if there is any chance it might set new buds on lets say prior year wood. After that you're going to check the trunk. At that point I give up unless its a dwarf. All those larger Picea orientalis are dead except for the lower portion of the truck and the branches coming off at that point.

    Those are going to be replaced with Pinus cembra, Picea omorika and Abies concolor.

    The majority of the pines you see have a nice green cambium with sap flowing through. So that Pinus nigra, densiflora and flexilis look good.

    I posted on this earlier but for what ever reason all three of the 'Blue Magoo' shown are dead

  • tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
    9 years ago

    Will, I'm seeing pretty much the same here. If the orientalis wasn't buried in snow, it got charred. Even a 14 year old 'Bergman's Gem'. I never got the -20*F zone 5 is defined by, but too many -17*F days did a number.

    tj

  • wisconsitom
    9 years ago

    Ken, my GGs were planted in two installments: First, three rather nice, larger specimens from Botany Shop went in up in the well-drained field soil where my primary tree seedling planting is going on. That would have been maybe four years ago. To tell the truth, I did not see these three on my visit, as they are in amongst lots of other rapidly growing pine, spruce and larch. Then two years ago, I put in three more but this time, downhill in a decidedly wet area, right adjacent to native Thuja o's. Those are the ones within which you can see such a huge difference. Who knows, maybe these are less well adapted somehow on account of being down in the swamp. I can't see why that would be so, but just thought I'd throw that in.

    I also have mentioned Chamaecyparis lawsoniana "Oregon Blue", of which three little guys were planted last spring. We also planted one of these at my son's house in Cedarburg, a town not far from whaas and TJ's area. All of these look toasted-a not-too-surprising outcome. Mine up north were snow-covered all winter until just recently, where the tips became exposed. If those tips indicate anything, these are in trouble. Son's looks probably dead. Of course, all are being left in place for now. I never had real high hopes for that particular experiment.

    I'd bet yours will go on as if nothing happened. This winter may have helped us mark a line on the map for that plant's suitability. For my part, I'm more happy than anything....to see the utter ease with which most of my stuff has made it through-Norway spruce, red pine, white pine, hybrid larch (I think!), uh what am I forgetting? Oh yeah, the Thuja o's! We're going to dig some more little ones if it ever warms up a bit and drys out, to be moved up into groupings in the main field planting area. All of those we've done previously have survived and thrived. Plus, most mysteriously, deer leave them be, completely. That's odd, but I'm glad of it, of course.

    Good luck whaas.

    +oM

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the updates whaas. Was your winter a zone four winter?

    Zone ratings interest me as does guessing the impact of being a recent transplant.

  • don_in_colorado
    9 years ago

    Good kitty!!

    Don B.

  • blue_yew
    9 years ago

    Whaas

    Don't give up some of those will recover just hope
    the weather warms up fast.

  • maple_grove_gw
    9 years ago

    I'm so sorry, Will. When you invest so much of your energy into the garden, these sort of losses are most disheartening. And geez, you get hit with both ends of the stick, brutal summers and winters. If it were me, I'd be thinking about moving to a warmer zone. Hopefully some of your stuff will pop back and be stronger in the future. On the other hand, you maybe haven't assessed your deciduous losses yet. Anyway, there's lots of great selections of Larix, P. glauca, P. abies, A. balsamea, etc. for replacements.

    If you'd like to work out some sort of trade for your new P. orientalis 'Aurea', let me know...

    Alex

  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    All three Skylands are dead too. The trunks are just completely dried out and brown. I posted in the Trees forum on deciduous plants. Deciduous loses are much more devastating.

    Dawn Redwood and European Beech are the losers along with Picea orientalis.

    Toro, I'm not sure many understand how bad the winter really was as the temperatures never exceeded zone 5 average minimums in my area. Its the persistence that caused the damage. With the greatest ice cover ever recorded (at least since humans have been recording) on Lake Michigan its just shows how persistent it was. The soil froze in November and has stayed completely frozen through late March. Its technically still frozen in many areas.

    This stat might be a bit telling. Between Dec, Feb and March we where short changed over 700 degrees. So roughly 8 degrees below average for 90 days straight.

    Here are the lows. Nothing crazy there are just so many!

    0
    -4
    -8
    -6
    -5
    -2
    -7
    -10
    -3
    -13
    0-1
    -7
    -14
    -8
    -18
    -17
    -9
    -14
    -6
    -4
    -4
    -9
    -12
    -15
    -4
    -5
    -12
    -1
    -5
    -5
    -2
    -1
    -7
    -10
    -4
    0-5
    -9
    -10

  • ademink
    9 years ago

    Everything I had made it through beautifully...but then there are the cedars....

    The two huge WBACs that I've had for 9 years are completely brown except for a few branches at the very bottom. My regular BAC is also completely brown...as well as Cedrus deodora 'Aurea'

    So much for that. I'm guessing that bud viability ain't gonna save those babies.

  • ginkgonut
    9 years ago

    Some of the losers up here. Not necessarily dead, but severe browning on some specimens. Most natives were relatively unfazed by the winter.

    Taxus
    Tsuga
    Abies concolor
    Pinus flexilis
    Pinus nigra
    Pinus parviflora
    Juniperus chinensis
    Chamacyparis noot. (probably dead)

    Some non-native champs:

    Picea omorika
    Abies koreana (have only seen Silberlocke)
    Pinus cembra
    Pinus sylvestris
    Chamaecyparis pisifera (various golden threadleaf)

  • gardener365
    9 years ago

    Hey whaas, I'll show you a comparison for my location: Aledo, IL

    Dec:

    1. -2
    2. -7
    3. -1

    Jan:
    2) -1
    3) -4
    5) -8
    6) -14 *coldest day
    7) -9

    1. -6
    2. -2
    3. -3
    4. -6

    Feb:
    3) -12
    6) -9
    7) -4
    9) -2

    1. -9
    2. -10
    3. -2

    Mar:
    2) -4
    3) -8

    Dax

  • ademink
    9 years ago

    My Chamaecyparis nootka. (all 9) are completely unphased. You'd think we had a mild winter to look at them.

    Just saw that I got the crap burned out of my Taxus baccata 'Standishii'. I think I'll lose the upper 1/3 of the plant.