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| Valenta Gardens
Picea mother brooms of the world conifering.
Zsolt |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by gardener365 IL 5/6 (My Page) on Wed, May 25, 11 at 15:41
| Mighty cool! Picea pungens 'Charming Chub' is 'Regal Chub' fyi. There was a name mix-up and Abies concolor 'Charming Chub' & Picea pungens 'Charming Chub' were once in existence... no longer though. 'Regal Chub' became the pungens. Dax |
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- Posted by clement_2006 (My Page) on Wed, May 25, 11 at 15:55
| A fantastic lot of photos very interesting Zsolt, and I think it's not finished.But like each collection, I note some errors (mistake) : Picea glauca "Aurea" don't exist,maybe "Kornell Dwarf Yellow" Picea glehnii "Josawa" must be written "Yosawa" and the photo are not representative because he become a little tree. Picea jezoensis "Chinese Marl" are a picea glehnii Picea jezoensis "Frice" are not a jezoensis,maybe Picea bicolor. Picea mariana "Aris" are not Picea mariana, maybe Picea glauca Picea rubens "Wustemeyer" are not a picea rubens. However a fantastic collection. Clement |
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- Posted by mesterhazypinetum 6 (zs.mesterhazy@chello.hu) on Wed, May 25, 11 at 16:30
| Thanks for the remarks, I'm also now in the controlling phase with the names. 4500 photos in a week... See you Zsolt |
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- Posted by jaro_in_montreal 5b (My Page) on Wed, May 25, 11 at 17:19
| If Valenta Gardens is in the Czech republic, then "Josawa" must be written as "Josawa", just as "Jaro" must be written as "Jaro" :O) |
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- Posted by tsugajunkie z5 SE WI (My Page) on Wed, May 25, 11 at 17:50
| Thank you Zsolt for taking the time to post these pix and the other threads as well. Very nice that you chose to undertake this task. tj |
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- Posted by coniferjoy (My Page) on Thu, May 26, 11 at 8:23
| Zsolt, thanks for this fantastic photo collection, it's an amazing collection! Some day I hope to see this collection with my own eyes! Also some name corrections from me: The Picea likiangensis 'W.B.' is probably the Picea likiangensis var. balfouriana (now only Picea balfouriana) 'Mittenwald' which was found by Gunther eschrich from Germany. The one at the Picea omorika 'Freya' pic isn't the right one. Picea omorika 'Radlov' Picea orientalis 'Well's Minima' was long ago renamed in what is now Picea orientalis 'Mt. Vernon'. Picea orientalis 'Skylands W.B.' is renamed in 'Tom Thumb Gold' aka 'Tom Thumb'. Picea pungens 'Fat albert W.B.' is later renamed in 'Blue Pearl'. Picea pungens 'Hexenblaukissen' is just 'Blaukissen'. Picea pungens 'Stanley's Pygmy' isn't a Picea pungens at all, it's a Picea glauca cultivar. Picea sitchensis 'Wiesje' 'Yosawa' is from Japan and must written this way. |
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- Posted by mesterhazypinetum 6 (zs.mesterhazy@chello.hu) on Thu, May 26, 11 at 11:49
| Edwin, just go rush to Cesko. People are very kind, hostels nice and familiary, and take a big transporter to take your new plants home! I had a good job at Lada. He labeled all his plants, so I needed only the camera to take the labels and the plants. Meanwhile I photographed 4500, half of them were the labels. All are stored for later, and I can take them in any doubful situations. These are not stored for internet use. On the field I had no big books in the pocket to clear any doubts there in situ. Take simply a first phase documenting action, where I could make photos of what I see there. I hope Lada will get also the corrections shortly to make his labels better like before. So long I'm still not ready with the photos, but I see the light going out of the tunnel. Clement gave me also some corrections with Picea glehnii and Picea jezoensis cultivars. Since that I viewed my lists, and I saw surprisingly that the doubtful selections are listed under both species: Chinese Marl: as glehnii by the Gee Farms in 2010, and 1992 By Horstmann as a jezoensis. This is my problem. Horstmann, Mitsch and Gee Farms has problems with the identification of a glehnii and a jezoensis? And quite sure it is not my problem. This is the problem, guys. I believe better to the Japan sources. Zsolt |
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- Posted by clement_2006 (My Page) on Thu, May 26, 11 at 14:14
| Yes, it's a big problem of identification between Picea glehnii, jezoensis and bicolor. 3 japanese picea,very differents, I don't understand. Clement |
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| Thank you Zsolt! |
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- Posted by jaro_in_montreal 5b (My Page) on Sat, May 28, 11 at 14:54
| Its an interesting theory, that "'Yosawa' is from Japan and must written this way." The Japanese language of course doesn't use the Latin alphabet. Just out of curiosity, I tried a few words and phrases in Google translate.
Therefore, the name as written using the Latin alphabet appears to be a phonetic interpretation of the Japanese spoken word, to whatever other language a particular country uses. |
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- Posted by mesterhazypinetum 6 (zs.mesterhazy@chello.hu) on Sat, May 28, 11 at 16:14
| Jaro, (or Yaro?) I guess you captured a global linguistic problem with name. All before: the label at Lada Valenta's garden was Yosawa, as many of us thinks, its the correct way of pronounciation. As I named the photo, for me as a hungarian - and familiar with japanese pronounciation - naturally wrote Josawa. Just because, we pronouce our "j" as an "y" for english speaking nations. This means, if the japanese want to pronounce the city "Jokohama" by other nation as they make it, they write on the maps "Yokohama". And they will hear back their correct name as "Jokohama". I know this debate since ages, as describing cultivars of different nations. I decided in the beginning yet, that generally all name must be written in the home language. Its simply impossible for the world to give everything an english name. There is no reason for it. In my one week trip to Cesko I never found others, just czech conifer names. Thats right, who wants czech conifers, must learn their names. I also learn the names of any other nations, and other learn my names. Even there are among them strange characters. Imagine please, now only 10-15 nations have conifer breeding in the world. In some decades come more, even from the Pacific area with never heard podocarpaceae in suaheli or any unknown languages, or chinese or russian from their incredible rich conifer forests. This time is very near to us. I will later show some Siberian and chinese selections by european expeditions as of Kohout and Etzelstorfer in the last years. Zsolt |
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- Posted by jaro_in_montreal 5b (My Page) on Sat, May 28, 11 at 17:02
| Excellent ! ....thanks for the world tour Zsolt ! Here's another idea: How about instead of trying to convert a foreign-pronounced word into Latin alphabet by interpretation, we simply TRANSLATE the meaning into the other (English) language ? PS. thanks for the info about Hungarian pronunciation -- I didn't know it was the same as in Czech :) |
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- Posted by coniferjoy (My Page) on Sat, May 28, 11 at 17:55
| 'Yosawa' is just a Japanese person's second name, nothing else... |
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