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ingeborgdot

Is this a Pinus contorta Chief Joseph?

Scott
10 years ago

I got this in the mail today, but to me it does not look like pictures I have seen. I would like an experts opinion. I hope it is because I don't want the hassle of dealing with someone on this.

Comments (43)

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Here is another one.

  • ogcon
    10 years ago

    A two needle with correct looking buds for this time of year.
    The photo shows no sign of having been a bright gold
    plant a few weeks ago and no burnt tips.Looks like it enjoyed being in the greenhouse all winter.Whos your shipper,care to say?Doug

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    10 years ago

    it flushes out brilliant yellow ... and depending on how hot it is.. the yellow lasts on a brief time ..

    and by mid summer.. it is plain old green ...

    so.. since yours had NOT flushed.. you have no complaint ... and no reason to slander the seller ... yet.. lol .

    you will now soon enough ... as it is one that is unmistakable .... at the right moment in time ...

    presuming its right.. that is one nice looking plant... in a small pot ... get it planted ASAP ... and unwind the roots .... give it some time to get the roots pumping.. before it buds all the way ...

    ken

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Song Sparrow.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I would not slander the seller. I have received many plants in the last year. Over 100 for sure. Some much better than others. I just got my first plants from Song Sparrow a month ago and while they were small, they had a better root system than many of the plants I got from anywhere else and they did not cost me much either.
    I have never seen a Chief in person so I was just shocked at how it looked and needed everyone's expertise to help me out. I sure hope it is a Chief.

  • ogcon
    10 years ago

    I think you're in very good hands with this nursery.I assumed you knew the "over-the top" color phase on the
    'Chief Joseph is a winter based phenomenom.In PNW zone
    8 its looking fabulous by Thanksgiving and goes nonstop
    until sometime in March then gradually turns light to medium green.I really like siting them in front of the darkest
    possible foliage such as Bosnian pine .D.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    So, you are thinking by the looks of it that it is a Chief? I hope so. I knew the color would be almost gone, but I just was not sure of the needle structure is all never seeing one in person. Many that I have seen on pictures just look a little fuller too.

  • PRO
    David Olszyk, President, American Conifer Society
    10 years ago

    @Ken, I believe you're thinking of Pinus contorata 'Taylor's Sunburst.' 'Chief Joseph' does not flush yellow.

    @Ingeborg, jury's out with me. I think it's too dark of green to be a Chief. However, if it's spent it's life in a darkish greenhouse, then maybe. Plant it out, wait until fall and see what happens.

    good luck! :-)
    ~Dave

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    No, don't tell me that.

  • outback63 Dennison
    10 years ago

    I am not sure about that one also.

    My first thought was no.

    Seems very leggy and open. Color seems off a bit also. Green to dark.

    I'll post some transition photos tomorrow beginning with Sept 2012 and ending tomorrow when I will shoot the last one.

    Dave

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Ahh come on. You trying to push the knife in deeper? So, how does a person approach this company and question them?

  • outback63 Dennison
    10 years ago

    You should have a year guarantee.

    Go ahead and plant it. By the first of October you will know for sure.

    Color should be close to this.

    Photo taken 9-27-12.

    {{gwi:727876}}

    Dave

  • PRO
    David Olszyk, President, American Conifer Society
    10 years ago

    yup. What Dave said. That's what Chief in the Spring should look like.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The structure on mine looks so much different than everyone's though. I am not talking color at all. I understand if it were in a nice shelter but man, this thing is so straggly looking at this point compared to yours. Maybe putting it in the ground it will thicken up some.

    This post was edited by ingeborgdot on Fri, May 3, 13 at 22:51

  • bobfincham
    10 years ago

    I don't like to comment on pictures since determining names from pictures is difficult to do with any accuracy. That being said, the plant looks like it might be a Pinus virginiana 'Wates Golden'. The candles are thin for 'Chief Joseph' and the foliage is sparse. The winter color would still be bright yellow so the nursery may have mislabeled it.

    Bob

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    What does a person do? Should I plant it? Should I call them? I have never had this happen before.

  • ogcon
    10 years ago

    This post promises to get interesting.May I for one ask what the paid price was for this1gal.?In my experience
    'Wates Golden ' doesn't approach the 'Chiefs' color spectrum by more than 20%.Everyones remarks regarding
    sparse foliage is at the top of my consideration.Contorta
    latifolia is fat and full of needles - thats the reason the golden color is so pronounced.Your plant is certainly sparse.Bob ,my 9'er in northern exposure is now mostly green.The larger one in O.G. with SE protection has gone
    completely pea green.D.

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    I also think it's a Pinus virginiana 'Wate's Golden'.
    This is because it's last year growth is a pinkish-brown in combination with the thin candles.
    The 'Chief Joseph' does have a greenish brown colour on it's one year old growth...

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    10 years ago

    yes.. glacier is right..

    i just happened to be out fondling my taylors just prior to seeing this post.. forgive me ...

    on ANY provider... i would simply call.. discuss the situation,hopefully with a manager, rather than a receptionist .. ... and suggest that i have concerns... and that i would be contacting them in the future, at the appropriate season.. to let them know if i have further concerns ...

    sometimes they simply send another ... other times we wait ... though i have no dealings with this seller ...

    i have never been let down with the honey approach .... as i call it ... most suppliers do want to come thru for you ... its good for business ..

    BTW .. i consider.. wates to be much easier to grow.. considering i have had one of those for 10 years.. and 8 chiefs that died ... lol .. unless you already have that one ... then who needs two ...

    ken

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Would a better picture or closer up help coniferjoy to make sure or are you pretty confident with what you see? I have never had a plant in question before and don't like to put a bad name on anyone. All of their other plants have been wonderful.

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    Better pictures are always welcome...

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I have several. I hope they help.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    One more.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Another.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Maybe larger.
    {{gwi:727883}}

    {{gwi:727885}}
    {{gwi:727888}}
    {{gwi:727885}}

  • clement_2006
    10 years ago

    A general vue of the entire plant also.Please.
    But it's too fast growing for "Chief Joseph"
    Clement

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Is this what you want?
    {{gwi:727891}}

    {{gwi:727893}}

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    I still go for Pinus virginiana 'Wate's Golden'.
    This is for it's fast growing rate and it's pinkish-brown colour on it's 1 year old growth.
    The most important thing is that it's candles are bowing over, which is typical for this species, because the side branches have the intention to hang down a bit as well.

    Now I'm very curious what Clément has to say... :0)

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    This just sucks. :(

  • gardener365
    10 years ago

    Sure as hell isn't Chief Joseph. You can recognize that 10 miles away... photo 1 to to this one.

    Don't worry about it so much. Call them. Shoot. Not any big deal. I think Ken already told you that.

    Dax

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I understand it isn't a big deal, but I feel bad telling a company that they are selling the wrong item. I just can't seem to get one. I am going to try to order from someone still shipping. If they won't give me my money back I guess I can find a place to plant it or does anyone want to buy it from me? :)

  • evhrox
    10 years ago

    Ingeborgdot - try Coenosium Gardens for a sure fire Chief - I received mine a couple of weeks ago and it looks absolutely fantastic - Thanks again Bob

    Here is a link that might be useful: Coenosium Gardens

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks.

  • clement_2006
    10 years ago

    Yes, it's a pinus virginiana, very probably "Wate's Golden".
    Clement

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    You can also keep it, it's winter colour is beautiful as well...
    {{gwi:727895}}

  • alley_cat_gw_7b
    10 years ago

    Ingeborgdot, Please keep us posted on your results from the seller. I have also purchased one from them this year and it looks like yours. I have bought from them for years and always found them to be a real good company. I just set mine aside while ive been reworking a small garden. Im not convinced yet on what we have.
    `AL

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Yes, the quality of the plants I have received from them has been great. That is why I feel so bad about this.
    evhrox. Could you post a picture of yours for me? Just curious. Thanks.
    I have room for the Chief and that is about it. Unless? Tear out something else? Hmmm. I have put in around 121 plants last year and this year. I have hauled off truckloads of plants because of how big my other dwarfs had gotten. 20 years for many but they were big dwarfs and when I first got into it I did not check into them much. Internet was not as easy as it is now. Now I can research better and find smaller dwarfs and minis that are much more interesting than the older ones I had. I may have to go look into it. Thanks everyone for your help. I have not heard back from them yet but it is the weekend and no one was around.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Went out and checked and for the size of this plant in 10 years I just don't have that much room for that size of a plant.

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    You can always prune it, like I'm doing with the one in my Pinetum...

  • mmajicmann
    10 years ago

    here's my new arrival from conifer kingdom....lousy phone camera.... will post a better pic soon.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Nice.

  • Scott
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, Song Sparrow came through. When Roy Klehm saw the pictures that I linked to this forum he knew my plant was not a Chief Joseph. He also figured it was a Wate's Golden. They have since taken the Chief Joseph listing off of their website. They refunded me but now I need to find a home for my Wate's Golden. I am looking and should find one soon.

  • ricksample
    10 years ago

    @ ingeborgdot - I was just going to comment, before your last post, to call them and they probably will give you a refund and tell you to keep the plant.

    They are really a good company... Last year I placed and order with them and my larix looked like it had root rot. The roots were just falling apart in my hands. I just called to see if I could put in a concern just incase it didn't make it a month or two down the road. They insisted on me to plant that just to see what happens and they also sent me a replacement.

    It's extremely rare to find that in a company... most will want you to send the plant back.

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