were there any seeds in last years cones??? ... that would be... wings with the attached seed kernel ....

thats the best way to tell if pollen is around

are there any left.. under the tree ... check them ...

i am wondering.. if you are presuming there is no pollen.. simply because you cant see it??

ken

Ken,

Yes last year I noted that all of the cones I looked at had seeds in them. I didn't save the seeds or try to plant them so I don't know if the seeds were fertilized and viable or not. But cones did have seeds.

Correct me if wrong but I thought there needs to be a decent amount of male pollen to fertilize the cones, otherwise the seeds are not viable. I'm no expert but that's my understanding. Is that correct? With so few male flowers on the tree I'm thinking there is not much pollen for fertilization and that very few seeds would be capable of germination..

Thanks

TYG

Pollen tends to be produced more by older trees, so the ratio will likely change as they mature. But the pollen cones are small, and easy to overlook, so there may be more than you saw.

Resin

open any cone...

if all you have is wings.. as i understand it... then there is no fertilization ..

if there is a kernal attached to a wing.. then they were fertilized...

i will defer to anyone who knows more than me .. on this ..

i hope.. this fall.. if it cones again ... that you will actually try to germinate them.. ya know.. you dont have to keep them.. but it is the simplest test to find out ...

the question that remains.. is whether they will be fert'd by fraseri only ... and that question might make me stupid ... lol ...

is there cross pollination between certain pines???

ken

@ Resin:

Thanks for the info. So is it correct to say that in general conifers produce more cones than pollen at a younger age? That might explain why the Abies fraseri is loaded with cones the last couple of years but has very few male pollen cones. I'm guessing this particular tree is maybe 15 or 20 years old.

I am attaching a photo taken this week. Not the best quality but should give you an idea about the cones. A few cone remnants from last year are also visible.

@ Ken:
Yes I recall last October or November that when I inspected the cones they fell apart right away but they did have seeds in them. The seeds looked like "normal" fir seeds to me, with the oval seeds attached to the wings. That part I am sure about. I do not know how to tell if a seed is fertilized or viable just by looking at it.

This fall I will gather some seeds and try to germinate them as a test.

I am not a biology expert but I have not heard of a pine or spruce tree being able to fertilize a Fraser fir. I just believed conifers had to be fertilized by the same type of tree.

Thanks to you both!

TYG

I think some confusion is creeping into this discussion. Here are some points for your consideration:
Yes, it would be normal for your firs to produce pollen cones in the same years they produce seed cones. However, natural variation will see to it that every rule gets violated now and then. It is not unusual to see a conifer that normally produces both sexes, to produce mainly one.
Also, good seeds are unlikely without cross pollination. Self pollination usually leads to low seed yield in conifers, and to seedlings of low vigor in the seeds that do mature.
Finally, yes, firs need firs, pines need pines, spruces need spruces, etc. Crossing between genera is not in the cards.