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arktrees

Ginkgo Rootstock Suckers and growth of tree. (rather long)

arktrees
10 years ago

Greetings plant people,
I have a question for the forum readers that have experience with grafted Ginkgo. And I would like some opinions as well. I will be cross posting this in the "Tree" and "Conifer" forums.

In spring 2007 we planted a Princeton Sentry Ginkgo in a location where the more narrow habit of this cultivar was appropriate near our drive way. It has been in it's present location for 6 years. Overall the tree is healthy, heavily foliaged (for a Ginkgo), has generated caliper, produces male flowering parts in the spring, etc. From this you would think all is well.... not exactly.

So does those of you with grafted Ginkgo have suckers from the rootstock every year. We have had this tree planted for 6 years, and every year it produces new suckers from the rootstock. At this point I would expect that this tree was grafted probable 10 years ago. Also since the graft is so much larger, I would expect apical dominance to have reduced rootstock sucking to nil by this time. But that is apparently not the case with this tree. So the question I have for you is, do your rootstocks on your grafted trees continually attempt to sucker?

Which brings me to my next point about this tree. Apical dominance, or more correctly, the apparent lack thereof. Being the cultivar Princeton Sentry, the tree should have upward ascending branches, and new branches/growth should follow this pattern. In this trees case....... not so much. To begin with I had to stake it for about 3 years before it could stand on it's own against the elements.... until this year. This year the tree is basically flopping over to one side again. But that's not the most unexpected thing. Few of the branches grow upward, some even grow downward, and many are basically pendulous. In fact the tree has gotten much wider, but barely taller than when planted. Hardly the growth pattern one would expect from Princeton Sentry. For that matter growth has been less than expected even for Ginkgo. In comparison I see local seed grown Ginkgo growing 2'+/yr with none of the other issues.

The above leads me to the following open ended thoughts. I am aware that for most Ginkgo, scions taken from branches tend to want to continue growing as branches. One of the advantages of PS was that apical dominance was would reassert itself in these grafts, and a central leader would then form. This is not happening, at least not strongly with our tree. Other characteristics fit PS. The leaves are large, thick, and typically lacking lobbing as us typical of PS. Fall coloration is late, and in line with other local Ginkgo that I believe to be PS. Plus I have seen reference to PS being late to color. The tree flowers male in the spring as one would expect. Since the tree is relatively small, that would support that it is the graft flowering, therefore no graft loss.

All of this make me wonder what could be happening. The rootstock sprouting makes me wonder if there is not some amount of graft incompatibility, thereby reducing growth as whole, producing suckers, and who knows what else.

Another thought I have had is the perhaps there has been a mutation in the original scion that greatly reduced the apical dominance. This could potentially result in lack of suppression of suckers, lack up upward branching, failure to maintain a leader, pendulous growth, weak structure so that the tree is now on the "floppy side again". Kinda a reversion PLUS.

Lastly, it could be wrongly labeled cultivar. I tend to discount this since the other characters fit PS.

At this point, I am less than enamored with this tree. Vigor is lacking, growth form is lacking, and we have gotten fall coloration exactly one time. then I see two seed grown trees sitting in burlap, on top of the ground, showing vigor with aggressive root growth though the burlap, and 1.5' long shoots, after being dug last fall, and missing most of their root mass.

I would appreciate any thoughts as to what may be happening.

Thank you for you time,
Arktrees

Comments (13)

  • alley_cat_gw_7b
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just a comment....I was surprised to read your post.Ive never heard of that before. Between myself and other family members we are growing no less than 10 different grafted cultivars of ginkgo. Ive never seen a sucker on any of them and have always admired how solid trunked they are and have never needed staking. I did grow a girards spreader for 4 years and was surprised at how wide it was getting. I didnt have the room it needed and gave it away.We dont have princeton sentry but ill bet you have a rare set of circumstances with your tree.
    best of luck...

  • gardener365
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Seems like root-issues. A lack of roots to anchor; possibly girdling;

    The suckers arising to give the tree more energy to work on the root-issues. It's probably trying on its own to correct the root-imbalance with that extra (active) energy.

    All your information leads to a lack of energy (someplace) and that someplace I believe to be the roots.

    The genetics of Princeton Sentry are to become a wide tree when mature, as well. It's a misconception about the form that probably isn't known by most growers. Here is a Princeton Sentry at Bickelhaupt Arboretum in Clinton IA that is quite old:

    Dax

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have about a dozen Ginkgos, all of which are grafted except (presumably) the straight species, which has been in the ground for about 12 years and was planted as a #15. The ONLY one that has ever suckered, and suckers repeatedly, is the species....

    Sara

  • arktrees
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    While I certainly can't rule out some root issues or girdling without digging up the tree, I don't see evidence of this on the trunk (ie. compressed on one side etc). Also I don't mean that is has not grown at all, but it has not really grown taller. Nearly all growth has been lateral, and even downward. Plus it's foliage is dense for a Ginkgo.

    I also see that I didn't make clear enough that the "flopping over" is the trunk bending over and no longer supporting itself, despite having more than doubled in caliper since the first measurement 5 years ago. I also failed to indicate that this tree is about 6.5' tall.

    I have attached the only picture I have available with me at this moment so that you can see more clearly. I didn't attach it before, due to the picture being back light making it somewhat difficult to see what is going on. Sorry for the poor quality. Still there are branches growing downward clearly visible. There has also been significant side ward growth this season, but NOTHING upward.

    Thanks to you all Alley_cat, Dax, and Sara. This is exactly what I need. People to help me think it through. It is much appreciated.

    Arktrees

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ginkgos are strongly plagiotropic so scion wood taken from different parts of the tree will produce different growth patterns in the grafted plants, which is just another annoying variable here.

    Sara

  • gardener365
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd probably dig it up this Fall and see what's happening with the roots. I don't think you're going to know why the roots aren't supporting an upright habit, that is, unless you do so. At the same time you can trim off branching that is overburdening the leader and any others that are weak/flimsy. Thin it completely and start over again.

    Sometimes the rootball is wobbly when planted and these sorts of things show up immediately. Sometimes staking trees too sturdy causes a tree to become flimsy. Sometimes roots grow more to one side and will need to be pulled into place so they are evenly distributed and heading in new directions when re-planting. Sometimes roots simply rot or die. Sometimes girdling.

    All of these instances may require common sense pruning above to bring about a good balance. I don't think you're going to find out what's wrong until you dig it up and bare-root it.

    Best of luck,

    Dax

  • arktrees
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    alley/Sara
    On a side note, do you have an opinion as to which cultivar develops yellow fall color the earliest? I'm subject to early and late freezes in my location, and I'm thinking that an earlier turning selection (if I replace this one) might be a wise consideration. Since both of you have seen several grafted trees, it seemed worth asking.

    Thanks in advance,
    Arktrees

  • texjagman
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Most trees I've ever encountered that sent up suckers were under some type of stress. I have 5-6 Ginkgos and only one of them suckered. It was a Goldspire and one of the few trees I brought in and planted in the spring rather than the fall so I know it was stressed by the sudden hot summer temps.

    Since you are in Arkansas I'll also assume like Oklahoma, you probably just came off a couple of really hot and extra dry summers. Has your spring this year been wetter and cooler than normal? The tree may be reacting to the heat stress now followed by a nice wet spring.

    This may sound elementary but is this tree growing in a windy spot, or do the breezes in your yard move primarily across your yard from in direction? Ginkgos are pretty elastic trees, especially when young, and it could be shaping itself to the wind.

    I also liked the comment on lopsided roots as a possible reason for the tree's irregular shape. But all in all it's a nice full Ginkgo that I'd hate to see you just throw out if you can get it how you want it.

    Just some random thoughts.

    mark

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My species Ginkgo is unlikely to be stressed (although it's planted in heavy clay, but not too deeply - I tend to plant everything slightly proud due to the soil) and it has suckered since it went in...

    Ark that is a good question and due to our mildness and that not mattering I have not really paid attention. Maybe Al has something to add. If you are an ACS member and saw my Ginkgo articles in the CQ, you could certainly call any of the people that I quoted - they were all as nice as they can be and have lots of experience with many different cultivars.

    Best of luck!

    Sara

  • gardener365
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sara, if you'd like any of my Ginkgo photos, send an email. I have file sizes of 5000x3600. Dave mentioned you were writing a second article, recently, to me.

    I'll link to my latest, but I have other Gingko photos, too. They will be in the neighborhood of 3200x2500 pixels. My photobucket accts are:
    Glabra
    Cultivar

    Dax

    Here is a link that might be useful: Iowa Garden Rendevous 2013

  • arktrees
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mark,
    Yeap, two hell summers in a row. Rainfall this year has been near average, but a very chilly spring including snow in May which has never been recorded in the state of Arkansas in May. With that said, I don't think it has anything to do with the suckering. It has suckered every growing season since planting. The first three years you could not have asked for better tree planting weather. Winds can be persistent from the south at times in spring, but it has stood up to this in previous years, until this year. So while likely a factor, or more like the trigger, it should not have made that much of a difference. I appreciate the thoughts. I know the my female counter part significant other likes it, and I hate to remove it on her account. So I'm considering options.

    Sara, thanks again. I am not a member of ACS. I appreciate the reply. I'll just have to keep working at it.

    Thanks again to everyone.
    Arktrees

  • outback63 Dennison
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Arktrees

    My suspicions are you are not growing a 'Princeton Sentry'.

    I see nothing in the character of your tree that would make me think that.

    Mine was grown from seed. Planted in 1988. This is a female tree. Three years ago it began to produce seed. I now have 3 seedlings that are about a foot tall.that resemble the growing habit of the 'Princeton Sentry'. Nursery's today sell 'Princeton Sentry' is an all-male cultivar which are fruitless.

    As Dax said, "The genetics of Princeton Sentry are to become a wide tree when mature". This is so.

    I believe mine to be 25-30 years old and I can see that process happening.

    A photo from today

    {{gwi:743162}}

    Last winter.{{gwi:470096}}

    Leaves are fan-shaped leaves with diverging (almost parallel) veins.
    {{gwi:743166}}

    Trunk

    {{gwi:743169}}

  • gardener365
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That tree is beautiful Dave.

    Dax

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