Is there enough difference to warrant propagation?
Where's the market?
Mike

Mike,
I make documentations. If yo like 1, 5, 20 or more kind wb selections of the 1400, you will go there, and you will make the market. The czech gardens around the houses are full with conifers. They like this high grafted dwarf wonders. They make surely a market for the breeders.

On the other hand, my documentations are also honoured to the world's greatest one location pine broom collection. Almost 10 % of the ever breeded conifer cultivars on the world! After the documentations of Malik and partly me, this find has became a part of the czech and austrian culture history of gardening, as the global conifer breeding.

Finally allow me a 3rd point of view in connection of the market. American breeders produced in the last 100 years 4800 conifer cultivars. Do you have an idea, where they are? Almost nothing of them survived, because of the market. If a nursery closes, or no children to follow the business, everything will be lost. And its true in the States. I know only 3 men, who took their conifer selections to great - state owned or really famous - arboretums.
Sidney Waxman in the UConn
Jerry Morris to Denver BG
Chub Harper to Bickelhaupt Arboretum.

Thats all, Mike. All others you will lost because of the market. Your lost conifer heritage will come never back again. As my dear friend, Bob Fincham told here just a year ago, "my garden will be an interesting forest" - without him.

Zsolt

Yep Zsolt, unfortunately your story is true...
Luckely a new U.S. conifer discoverer is among us, his name is our friend Nate Cassell, he follows up the famous Jerry Morris.
The good thing about Nate is that he makes also great documentations of his new finds and I hope he will do this for a very long time in the future!
Keep up the good work Nate!

Zsolt, also many thanks to you for your great documentation of these global beauties!
Next week Thursday I'll meet my friend Mira Malik at the yearly Czech witches' broom meeting and will see your photographed one's with my own eyes again :0)

Edwin,
the business kills the traditions. As I found 130 new conifers, my biggest problem is to find a place for them to survive in a safe state or any other big collection. Later on we could speak about business. I think in Europe we are more teached to traditions, others more for business.
I hope, the new generations will be more social in this question.

Zsolt

Thanks for explaining to me. I see your view. Business should not be the only factor as to what is grown or saved. Sometimes we Americans place too much importance on business over tradition and well being.

My view is, how will it look in my idea of what a garden should look like. Everybody has a different view as to what makes a good garden. A collection usually has priority over a garden. I see it as a garden has priority over a collection. Rarely are the two successfully combined. Foxhollow does it well, as do several others on this Forum.
Just two different ways to look at what is grown. One is not opposed to the other.
Thank you again for your explanation Zsolt.
Mike

"Sometimes we Americans place too much importance on business over tradition and well being."

Sad but true. Our Achilles heel.

Dave

Mike, Dave,
after some years meanwhile collecting the american and canadian conifer cultivars to my lists of the Conifer Treasury, I saw first their enormous quantity in the literature.
My only sources were the historic files of Bob Fincham, Stanley's, Iseli's pages as some famous american nurseries.
I had to ask myself, where are the american cultivars?
This was an important recognition about the situation, and now we can build up programs to change this.

Some years ago I started with american friends and many enthusiastic european collectors to edit the Jerry Morris file. Now we are ready with the first version of the Life Monument of Jerry Morris 1.0, which contains 835 selections of him. Many of them I photographed last month in Cesko and Austria, earler Nate Cassell made incredible quantities of Jerry's plant photos, as his young coniferist friend. We hope, that the plants of Jerry will never lost, because the collectors will seeking them in the nurseries.

I also very strong hope, that the greatest american arboretums will collect the US conifer cultivars, if we give them the lists and sources. I'd like to see this idea of course in other countries too, which are rich of breeders.

I feel myself very lucky to know Dax Herbst, who started the documentations of the Chub Harper Heritage some years ago.

As I started with the recognition of a global problem, I must say, the younger generation in the States has new ideas in the conifering, which could change in the future the pure market customs.

The national Conifer Societies are a good possibility to organize the preserving work.

Zsolt

Szolt, there's one thing you forgot to mention or maybe you're not aware of it:
You mention that the younger generation in the States has new ideas in the conifering, which could change in the future the pure market customs.

The thing overthere and here in Europe is that there's not a new generation of nursery men who will cultivate the special and rare cultivars...
For instance I'll mention Boskoop which WAS for a very long time THE plants centrum for Europe.
Plantsmen from all over Europe came to this centrum to buy plants there which were only availlable at these nurseries.
I also bought a lot of my motherplants from the late Kas Koemans and from several other Boskoop nursery men.
Unfortunately Kas' son wouldn't take over his dad's assortment and so a lot of these plants went to Henk and several other places.
Since then Boskoop lost their conifer specialist...

Another thing that makes me worried are the members of the Dutch Conifer Society.
The average age is 55 years and NO new youth members will take part of it now.
I think if new Dutch conifer nursery man will start a business, he will also enjoy the Dutch Conifer Society.
Unfortunately this still didn't happen.
With other words, in now and 25 years their will be only a few conifer nurseries in the world, it's a dying out thing...

I don't know about the average age of the ACS members, but I think it will not much lower then these of the Dutch Conifer Society...