I'm of the opinion all lines should be marked before digging, even if it's a really small hole. It's normally free. My local utilities came within a week of me asking.

I also think it's bad form to block morning sun, but you're not blocking winter morning sun, I assume... just something to think about.

I have no idea about your first question, but i'd be interested in other's opinions on it.

Not a good idea at all. These trees occupy way too much space and have gigantic root systems as well. It'll only be a matter of time where that tree is prone to damage not only your driveway but also your home. We're talking a tree that spreads 50 feet across. The potential to destroy water lines is also there. Anything underground.

Dax

You sound like quite the neighbor to be concerned!

If you don't know their preference then ask them. Some folks like the sun coming in during the morning. Others do not.

May as well figure out where your lines are underground before you go further.

Guys when I look around I see many sycamore trees planted on city lots. Many pin oaks suburban lots. The largest Metasequoias I have seen are probably at MOBOT although some taller narrow ones are at Rowe Arboretum. I can not see a dawn redwood having that spread.

What is the size folks should prepare for? 80 foot tall and 40 spread? They can be limbed up like most any tree.

It is a concern and safer to error on the side of caution. For what its worth the Metasequoia cultivar Ogon is growing 3ft a year in my yard. Faster than expectation for a fu fu yellow tree. It and all the other Ogons I have seen are a little more narrow than the species.

I've read the term 'ogon' here during my search, but I'm not clear on what this is. Keep in mind that finding Dawn Redwoods around here isn't exactly an easy task, so finding a boutique cultivar may be difficult.

Yeah, I have only seen a few regular dawn redwoods locally myself. Always have to mail order when I want some for a give away at work or something.

If you end up just wanting a Ogon it is easy enough to order one from a company like Forest Farm in the fall. Forty bucks or so and you'll have a three footer. Ogon is a patented name like "Forest Pansy" is for a particular clone of Redbud or "October Glory" for red maple or "Bradford" (uck!) for pear.

Regular Metasequoias are pretty cheap mail order. I like planting small trees because it is easier to get right. It is more difficult to build the wire fence around to keep the rabbits and weed eater away lol.

Both Metasequoias and that Lirondren(sp) Tulip Tree that Resin mentioned over in the other forum are fast growers BTW and I think the flowers on the Tulip Tree are considerably under rated.

So what I've read on the ogon is that it doesn't have a spread as large as the dawn. What about the root system? would it damage a drive or side walk 10-15' away from the trunk?

At the Zoo/mini botanical garden in Cincinnati they have Ogons planted in four foot grass strips as sidewalk trees. Not sure I'd go that far.

The most massive I have seen are at the Missouri Botanical Garden. Sure down by Cincinnati Rowe Arb might have taller ones but the ones at MOBOT are almost as tall and at least seem much wider with more of their lower branches retained. Much Much thicker more buttressed trunks at MOBOT.

My personal opinion once again is fifteen feet from trunk to driveway and you will see plenty of oaks and the like planted w/o damage to sidewalks. With a fu fu cultivar like Ogon you could probably go ten feet from the edge of the driveway.

Guess I gotta remember MOBOT will go fix their landscaping the moment something cracks. Just not like I have seen any more than the usual amount of surface roots near any of the big Metasequoias I have seen. Trunks do get THICK on the main species if you are in full sun and leave the lower branches on. Then again you do not get the huge branches overhanging your house and cars like Ash or Elms give ya.

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So if the tree is planted 50 feet from water/gas lines and the home, and 15 feet from a driveway the roots shouldn't damage anything?

Limbing the tree when it is mature should create a canopy enough to drive under..... providing the neighbor doesn't mind (the house in question changes hands often, military, and the current owner cut down all trees on his lot for some reason).

So, have I convinced myself yet?

Also, in those pics, are those of the Ogon variety? How old are those trees?

Thanks all!

Where are you located? Should put that and your zone in your profile.

Many times feedback will be tailored to that info.

Dawn Redwoods don't strike me as a tree to put near a driveway as they have a more naturalistic form and therefore better positioned in an open lawn area.

The width on these trees are quite variable. You can probably find an ancient 50' wide specimen but its more commonly maturing at 30' wide...even more narrow. I saw a few that were 20' tall and less than 6' wide.

Height on the other hand, holy cripes they get tall. Better situated at a back lot line where it won't dwarf your house.

Take a look at DeepRoot's products. They make 80 mil containment and redirection systems designed to protect hardscape features (like sidewalks and driveways), by forcing the tree to grow its roots deep instead of laterally.

Here is a link that might be useful: DeepRoot

I never understood those products...how do the roots get oxygen?

Those are regular dawn redwoods are at the Missouri Botanical Garden. They were planted about 1950 and are the most impressive lot I have seen. Before then they had been absent from North America for I forget how many millions of years.

Ogon has not been around as long. If you see a dawn redwood with bright lime/yellow foliage think Ogon. Someplace on my photobucket I have pictures of ones which may be ten years old. Unscientifically they seem 80% as tall and 2/3 or less wide than the species in similar conditions.

Yeah, limb them up if it makes the tree work in your spot. Few trees get into suburban lots w/o pruning. Heck, I have to cut a few lower branches off my dogwoods and a couple redbuds soon!

Were you in Kentucky or Ohio? At Rowe Arboretum near Cincy there are some taller narrow dawn redwoods as old as the MOBOT ones in my pictures. Perhaps when young they were pruned or were just grown in more shade. The Rowe trees look like they would fit your spot well. If the MOBOT trees were plopped in your spot you might have to prune a half dozen branches or so.

Anyways, you have till fall until prime planting season comes again. Drive around, look how different trees are sited in older neighborhoods. Figure out the look YOU like.

Here is a link that might be useful: skidmore metasequoia research

"I never understood those products...how do the roots get oxygen?"

They get it the same way they usually do, from water in the soil. The idea with root barriers is not to encircle the tree, but to protect the hardscape. While some species can be successfully contained by encirclement, larger trees like this cannot. The barrier goes along the sidewalk and driveway, but does not completely surround the tree.

In the case of 'island' type hardscape features, like a disconnected patio or walkway in a yard, the Gilman shadow must be considered. This is the distance beyond a barrier which will remain root-free after the roots grow under the barrier. This distance is dependent upon installation of the barrier and soil conditions beyond the barrier. There's a brief PDF explanation of various methods of root control linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Root Control Barriers

A large tree in a small space is visually overwhelming as well as physically intrusive. The dawn redwoods shown above are still small, we are talking about a redwood tree. In my state we had heights of 100', trunks more than 11' around and average crown spreads of more than 40' being produced by dawn redwoods here by the early 1990s. Since then specimens more than 100' tall etc. have been measured in the eastern US - this is a Chinese tree that likes hot and wet summers, takes fairly cold winters.

As with just about all more recently circulated cultivars the 'Ogon' is probably being depicted as smaller-growing than it will prove to be in time.

Cutting the large basal limbs off a dawn redwood would diminish its appearance and interest. One of its common names could be armpit or socket tree, due to how the lowest branches appear to emerge from depressions in the trunk. Limbing a less-than-towering one up high enough to have full clearance would give it a stripped appearance and make the remaining crown abnormally narrow and unimpressive.

I could never find my pictures of the thinner trees at MOBOT but one of our more esteemed members found this tree. It is how I suspect most residential dawn redwoods will be pruned as the tree becomes more mainstream. Good looking to be sure.

Just putting in the link in case you are getting e-mail updates and not checking the board regularly.

Here is a link that might be useful: check out the photos of this metasequoia in a residential setting

Ken,
Thank you for putting my mind at ease. I really appreciate that you took time away from other things to answer my questions/concerns.
Thanks again!
Craig

I would say that it's fine to plant these near a drive-way. I would however, get the utility companies to come out and see where the lines are. These trees will have wide, buttressed trunks unless you "limb them up as they grow. They can take on two different forms depending on whether you prune the lower branches or not.

I have seen them grow straight, narrow and tall like a telephone pole, with no branches below 20' (as the branches were limbed up as the tree grew) and I have seen them grow wide and spreading and thick at the base. It all depends.

In the Pacific Northwest, these trees will be massive, in places like chicago, with extreme cold temps and a much shorter growing season, they will reach half the height they would in the Pacific Northwest. I would say go ahead and plant it. If you're worried about it damaging a driveway, just prune it up as it grows.

Not a good picture, but I wanted to show some 'armpits'. They sure make the tree more interesting than the average tree. The branches were shaded out and died. I removed them a couple of years ago, but the armpits are still visible. I also removed the Red Alders to the south that blocked the light to the Dawn Redwood. The Thuja plicata to the southeast will remain.
The broken branch on the left from an ice storm last winter is still alive. I'm going to remove it. Fun to watch it grow in the meantime. I'm going for the pits!
Mike
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What is that grassy groundcover under the MOBOT trees above?

I believe 'Ogon' is the cultivar name for the Japanese introduction of this plant.We're currently calling it 'Goldrush'.
I have yet to see a large one (over 10 or 12m)Just thought
I'd chime in with an alternative cv that doesn't seem so darned vigorous.....Miss grace to my eye is a thing of
beauty and is growing about a ft.p/yr.Many folks seeing this tree for the first time go looking for it.Sorry no pic.in
my folder.Doug

Hairmetal: that appears to be un-mowed turf. If it's a shady area all the time, they'd have to seed it annually.

Doug, it's 'Ogon'. Goldrush is no-longer in play. I think Davesconifers has a 25-30 footer. He's pruned up a bit, but it's pretty tall however tall it is. Come to think of it, Glaciers-End recently said there's a name in a new publication calling it something else now. Everyone seems to post 'Ogon'.

Here's a picture I grabbed off of Photobucket. Probably from last summer:
Dave's Metasequoia 'Ogon'

Dax

That is Liriope under the trees at MOBOT.

Those at MOBOT, weren't they amongst the first to be planted outside of habitat ?

For purposes of determing growth I thinj the MOBOT trees are old enough it does not matter. If I recall Arnold Arb got them first and MOBOT got theirs from that batch.

Still think sixty five years old and 90 foot.

FWIW my Ogon, gold rush, yellow godzilla (or whatever new name they pick) is growing two or three feet a year. They all seem thinner than the species and with a smoother more formal trunk.

Someplace on here there are pics.of a limbed up metasequoia. The trunk lacks the "armpits" we are used to seeing. Limbed up forms have to mimic how they grow in stands and are good looking in their own right.