I planted this one in the spring of 2008.

Did quite well but this spring started to die from bottom up.

Zone5/5b...it didn't make it.

Dave Sequoiadendron giganteum 'Pendulum'
{{gwi:778029}}

" They want $219.99 for a 10 gal. tree that is about 6-7' not including the pot."

Heeeey, you wouldn't happen to live in Findlay, would you?

Anyway from what I've read, only the glaucus cultivars are particularly hardier, and it's quite likely that dwarf cultivars would be hardier too as you could actually protect them.

Also from my understanding, it's not just winter cold that's an issue, but winter dryness or something?

Anyway, honestly, I'm trying to find a Blauer Eichzwerg or some other very dwarf cultivar myself. Growing it in a container and keeping it in the garage in the winter should work a lot better than planting out a full-sized tree and hoping for the best.

Not safe in zone 5/6.

One in Britain (in a zone 9 area) is 34m tall.

Resin

Dave-Did you have a very harsh winter last year too? Ours was the worse I can remember since I was a kid reaching -20 or more over night for two or three days and -20 for a whole day. I had a frozen pipe on my water fountain at the store, and the waterline was 8 feet in and on interior walls. I couldn't get the back room over 35 degrees for 2 days, or the store over 60 and we are in an enclosed mall. For the last several years we haven't gotten below -2 or 3, and it has only been a couple hours over night. Is yours completely dead, or is it still grasping to a little bit of life and a chance for it to survive?

Amccour-No I live south of Findlay, between Lima and Beaverdam. You from Findlay? I'm not big on taking care of anything once it is planted and established. I joke that I have ADD, I get bored or distracted very easy and once a project is done, I'm off to the next one outside of basic maintenance and enjoying the older areas (Very old and established at 3 years now :-)~. I usually water well the first year, occasionally the second, and by the third it's on its own.

Resin-So you think I should go with the zones 6-7 and ignore the 5b rating? Forget about the plant? Or is it one I should take a chance on if I can get it cheap enough, or find a small one at a much smaller price? I know if I walk in at the end of the season I can pretty much name my price, but I would be hesitant to plant it that late. Would prefer to give it at least a couple of months to start establishing. Maybe I could winter it over in the garage? Or winter it over REALLY good in my nursery area?

Thanks for all the good advice and thoughts. Keep it coming!

Eliot

What about the fungus problem(s) on the typical trees in parts of the East? Seems the cultivar would also be susceptible.

I have NOT seen them personally, but I've been told there were 3 planted at the Cleveland Clinic that went through fine last winter. I dont know how cold it was right in the city but I can attest to -12F/-24C around Cleveland Heights this winter, which is very cold since official records put the all time low at -19F/-28C. Now I'm sure its very easy to create a zone 6/7 microclimate in Cleveland and Cincinnati but Western or rural Ohio might be different. Many nurseries around Cleveland are selling them this year after reports that they survived. I've heard that Barabits Requiem is slightly hardier if you want a pendulous form but I dont think they are reliable in zone 5 or a cold 6.

Hi Eliot,

I'm not sure I would spend that much money on that plant especially at this time of year (less time to get established. Price wise probably in the ball park, I was selling 4' ones for 59.99 cont. grown. The School of Horticulture in Niagara Falls has a real beauty of the species. Guesstimating at 30'(10m)plus.

I have a S.g. Pendula here about 2' morning sun afternoon shade. No burning despite a record breaking cold winter. Still spent some time under the snow as well.

Also have Hazel Smith pretty much in full sun and in the open with a bit of north wind protection- didn't burn at all.

Blauer Eichzwerg- slight burning but now you would never know.

Like Nikkie says Barabit's Requiem takes several degrees colder weather.

All in all, still a gamble in my opinion.

I would buy small. Get it in the ground in early spring, never let it dry out and wrap it for a couple years. Shoveling snow on it for added wind and sun protection wouldn't hurt either. Watch for fungal problems with hot humid summers. Good luck.

Darren

"Amccour-No I live south of Findlay, between Lima and Beaverdam. You from Findlay?"

No, I'm in Lima, but I go to Findlay a lot. I was just asking 'cause the DeHaven's in Findlay has this tree for the same price you mentioned.

I have wanted this plant as well. I decided to get Barabit's Requiem a few years ago. It has been here for 3 winters. My garden is a solid zone 6. It got hit hard by a near record cold spell in the Spring of 2007 and lost its leader and the ends of most branches. That summer and the next (2008)it grew slowly and really just got back to about where it was when I got it. This summer it has begun to grow and show some potential. I do protect it with a barrier of leaves stuffed between two cylindrical fences. I consider this an experiment and fully expect it to be gone 5 years from now. It still is interesting trying since I had never seen one in person. I have enclosed a recent picture. Gary

Nikki-Thanks for the info on the Clinic. I might just need to explore the next time I come up for an Indians Game.

Darren-Thanks for the info. You are growing them successfully in Ontario? Are they going to be on the new list that you will be offering? If I decide to get a small one, how fast do they grow? The place I have in mind to plant it is on the back side of the waterfall I am working on right now, so I want it to be the center piece of the planting. Thats why I am so interested in the big one here. It will be planted on the west side of the house about 30ft away, having full sun from early morning until evening when the sun gets below the woods at the west end of the yard. Now in early spring and late fall when the sun is further south, it will get a little less light due to several very large red oaks about 30 ft south of the intended site.

I had the same concerns about planting it late in the season. Larger stuff I like to get in the ground early in the spring to give them a whole growing season to get established. If I can get it for 50 or 60% off at the end of the year and planted it in its pot to winter over (and protected), are my chances of success improved? How would you suggest wrapping a 6 or 7 foot tree? I have never wrapped any of my plants yet, but know I will need to eventually if I want some of them to stay nice.

I normally like to get the smaller plants as they are much easier to transplant and get established, but every once in a while I like to splurge on some instant gratification, especially when it will be the center piece.

Amccour-Thats amazing. Whats your name if you don't mind me asking. Hard to believe we are on an international forum, and I come across someone from my hometown! I saw the tree at the Lima store.

From what everyone is saying it sounds like I'm probably going to get it at the end of the season if they have it left at 50 or 60% off. I was thinking a couple of years ago they went to 75% (but not positive) very late, like late Oct. or early Nov.

Gary-When you say it's an experiment and expect it to be gone in 5 years, do you mean the cage or the plant? Thanks for the picture.

From what you all are saying, I am going to try it. I just need to decide if I am going to get the instant gratification and go with the big one, or wait till this fall or next spring and get a small one and wait. Does anyone think one way is better than the other? I kind of got the impression from Daren that he recommends to start with the smaller one. If anyone has anymore thoughts, please let me know.

Thanks again everybody!

Eliot

Hello Eliot

I am no expert,just someone who would like to grow a Sequoia.Check out Giant Sequoia .com,there is alot of info on growing sequoia's.They also have a gallery section of trees growing in a bunch of states and other countries.

I currently have a bunch out in the feild,a Hazel Smith,Glaucum,Bultinck Yellow,Barrabits Requeium and some good ol seedlings.The Hazel Smith is the oldest and will be going on it's 5th winter.It suffered the loss of it's leader last spring,I think it was mostly my fault.In spring I was raking the mulch away from it's base,when I noticed many small white roots just under the grounds surface.Thinking they were roots from creeping charlie,I fear I didn't stop soon enough,that was the only year it's tip died back more than 1/2 inch.I have one seedling going on it's 4th winter.That tree took a beating but it's hanging in there.The glaucum I took a chance on because I like it's narrow habit,again it did good the first winter then lost half it's leader only to come back like gangbusters,with 2 leaders and growing good this summer.

I have been planting them in areas where the snow drifts,the frost does'nt get very deep and last give them some winter shade if not covered in snow.

Keep an eye open I'll post some pictures and share more later but for now I gotta go.

lp

amidheliot- Hi. Next time I'm back in town, I'm going to find where these plants are. I talked to a guy at a nursery here in Cleveland Heights and he said there is another Pendulum that he drives by everyday and its approaching 20-25ft and went through last winter fine. It must be somewhere in Cleveland Heights so if I can find it I will try to take a picture of it for you. The Pendulums I saw out in Geauga County a few weeks ago were 6-7ft and 289.99.

Eliot,

This species is likely always going to be at the borderline of survival at least in my climate. This is the best recipe for success I can give just based on my own experience with these plants.

They are very shallow rooting plants. Once the ground is frozen and the north winds start blowing, it's a race against time with dessication because they won't be able to pull any moisture out of the ground to rehydrate themselves. Not to mention the ulitmate lows of temperature. I have planted with the exception of S.g. Blauer Eichzwerg in continually moist soils and where the frost is about the last place it goes in for the winter. With nearly every snowfall I shovel some snow up against the tree. Tough to bury them now as they are getting fairly tall. Heavy mulching in the fall buys time. "lp"'s advice isn't bad either-- the tubular cage filled with leaves. To keep the wind and sun off it. Might want to use mouse bait to keep the critters from possibly gnawing and tunneling under the tree. It's handy if you don't get enough snow cover though. Take away the mulch around the tree to get it thaw out in the spring quicker. With the Glauca I water it a couple times a day to melt the frozen soil in early spring. Sounds intensive but it seems to work and I'm around these plants all the time anyway so it isn't a big deal for me.
Next year I'm going to let Hazel Smith be on her own to see what happens... it's been there 3 years now and doing very well.

When you say it's going to be in full sun for most of the day increases the potential to have winter sun burn most typically in late February, March when the sun gets stronger again. Ultimately, Mr.Snuffle-uffle-ges has to either live or die on it's own because if you do baby it along for x number of years, it's going to get too big to "take care" of.

If you are willing to put the time and energy into it, I'm sure it will do reasonably well but still no guarantee of it's survival. I wouldn't fertilize them much either. Pushing them just increases the chances of die back in winter.

I don't as a rule carry them. I buy them in mainly out of interest and cockiness -- thinking I can do the nearly impossible. But there are other people like me and I will buy them in on special order. There are several success stories here in southern Ontario, the tree I mentioned yesterday in Niagara Falls is about 20 something years old. It's beautiful but that is still a 1/2 zone warmer than me.

Wait for a good deal or contact Gees, Larry Stanley I'm sure these guys will have them. Check the Dawes Arb, Holden Arb. and Spring Grove Cemetary to see if they have any planted on the grounds. That will be a good indication of its success in your area.

On a side note, if it is the tall and skinny Dr.Suess type you are looking for why not consider putting "Cham." nootkatensis Van den Akker in that spot. Essentially the same look and trouble free. I have one have around 9' tall and 6" wide without a single branch. They are finally becoming more available. Just a thought...

Darren

Eliot,
I believe my plant will be dead in 5 years. I will continue to fuss over it as long as it shows good potential. If you want the plant - I would wait untill next spring and get one that is not so big you can't protect it ( and one that is not too small!). I got mine from Coenosium and it was decent size to start. I am taking Darren's comments to heart as well.
Gary

lp-Sound like you are having great success with yours in Zone 5. The chips keeping falling on the side of hopefully getting the big one this fall. Being on the back side (west) of the waterfall should create a nice snow buildup. I was originally going to slope the back side out, but I think now if I just steeply terrace the back side it may be more beneficial to the Sequoia. However, thats what is making me lean more for the big one. From the ground to the high point of the waterfall, maybe stream would be more appropriate of a name, is going to be in the neighbor hood of 48-54" high with a 12-15 ft run. So if I don't want to wait 5-10 years for a plant to get as high as the top of the hill, I need to start with a taller one. Thanks for the website and the pics.

Nikki-Thanks again. If you find out where they are let me know and I'll check them out. I will be up there a couple of times yet for baseball games.

Darren-Thanks again for all the useful info and advise. Since it's not finished yet I am still modifying the design a little here and there. I plan to get it built tomorrow, and then have a landscaper friend come help me get it working. You are partially correct with the tall skinny and UNIQUE form being what I think I need there. Unique might be the biggest thing I am going for. I want something that screams for attention. I do have a Van den Akker out front that I received from you this spring, a Jubilee on the corner of the deck, and a Pendula (again from you) temporarily to the right of where the waterfall is going. Otherwise the Van den Akker, Moon Shot, etc. would have been a great suggestion. Another one I had thought about was a Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns', but I just located that from you after 6 months of searching so I know I won't be able to find a 6 ft tall one, and IF I did, wouldn't be able to afford it. Part of the thing is that ever since I saw them being rated to Zone 5, I wanted one, and knew I was going to get it at some point . When someone ask what that strange tree is, I want to answer "A Sequoia". Not many people can claim to have one in their yard in Ohio.

Gary-Good luck with yours. I like the cage and leaf idea and will prob. use it on smaller trees in the future. But not very easy to do if I get the big one locally. An idea I have for protection is old window screens. My parents just replaced all their windows, so I told them to save the screens for me. If I build a screen tent over it and wrapped it in burlap for the first couple of years, would that be enough? Or does anyone have any better suggestions for 6 or 7 ft tree.

Thanks again.

Eliot

Mine survived 1 winter in zone 6, but died the second. Looked fine all winter then just went brown...
I have given up!

You could overwinter it in an insulated garage.I did that with one of my first trees,it was in a pot.It grew all winter in there,I pulled it out to early and it went dormant and didn't grow real much that summer.I think it would be best to wait untill spring also,that way the tree has a summer to establish a root system.

lp

I have seen Hazel Smith, Glauca and a green form at a place called the Stow Arboretum in Stow Ohio, which is a suburb of Akron. They also grow Blue Atlas Cedar, all of which appear to have made it through last winter and survived 1994's record lows. Of course these are all in a densely populated area south of Lake Erie so they are probably in a safe zone 6 microclimate. I did a little research on the Pendulums in Cleveland and if anyone wants more information there is a man (I dont know his name) that works at Heights Garden Center (now called Bremecs) who claims to drive by a large specimen every day on his way to work, which is why they are now selling them. The number at Heights is (216) 932-0039 or you could call the main nursery at (440) 729-7438. Glen at the main nursery is very helpful and I was told by a friend he also knows about the larger specimen on the East Side. When I get home to Ohio I can stop by the nursery and try to get some information. :)

Interesting conversation...like a lot of plants that are borderline--I most certainly agree that damp soil conditions intensified with cooler air temps from towering above trees blocking southern exposure yet allowing western or eastern exposure or both, as well as planting where the natural low spots on the property are, where the water also naturally goes is the best way to create success.

Very interesting as I say. Certainly some of the combined comments are excellent. I can't grow them here though nor does Cryptomeria japonica have a chance because of humidity. Also and now I'm understanding, the dessication of water to the roots prior/during winter is a big issue. Interesting watering trick you do Darren. That's some good thinking on your part to get the ice melting as quickly as possible. It's almost like fertilization whereby a person is increasing the hardiness of the tree on occasion.

Good luck. Those of you in Ohio, do not even hesitate. Ohio I always think of as the Pacific Northwest of mid-America where all the rarities that cannot grow anywhere else west of, they will grow in Ohio. Especially those of you anywhere remotely near Cincinatti.

Dax

Dirtslinger-Where do you live? I'd be interested to know if it was the winter temps, or the summer humidity or drought that killed it.

lp-That's the way it looks as though I am going to go. Everybody's comments have given me the idea that with a little (OK, maybe a lot of) babying it has a very good chance at survival. There were a few things shipped to me very late last fall and we already had snow on the ground so I wintered about 8 trees over in the garage. All but one made it, and I think that may have been my fault anyway. I had stuck them out in front of the garage to get morning sun in march, and we got a cold snap and hard frost, and that one was already pushing new growth. It was also the largest, and maybe it took the brunt of the frost? Just a theory...

Nikki-Thanks again for all the great info. I'm going to give them a call today and see what they can tell me. They have been selling the Blue Atlas's in Lima area for several years now. However they are selling them at about 6' but in the "serpentine" form, where they bend them left of center then right of center and back and forth all the way up. I had been debating one for about two years now, but don't really like that look. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I just don't care for it. So I finally ordered a smaller on this spring and got it in the ground. From ppl. I've talked to around here, they've had no problems with them. Thanks again, and keep me posted on the ones in Cleveland if you find them. I would really like to check them out.

Dax-Thanks for the enlightening info. If there was any doubt about at least giving it a shot (I think I had my mind set already though) you dispelled it. I like your comparison to the PNW! Therefore, I think I may have come up with an action plan. Get the big one this fall on sale (Hopefully it's still there) as well as order a small one and put it in the nursery, and see it I have better luck with one over the other. I can always find a spot for the smaller one down the road, or give it to someone.

Keeping it moist wont be problem. As much as I complain about watering, at times I find it relaxing, hose in one hand, beer in the other at the end of a long day just unwinding. Unfortunately, I don't have low spots in my yard. North West Ohio is pretty darn flat. Supposedly there is only like 10 or 12 ft. of vertical drop from the northern border of Allen Co. (I'm about 5 miles from the line) to Lake Erie. By building up my waterfall/stream in front of the intended spot (about 4' High), will that help protect it from frost? All of the elevation changes have been made by me with the exception of a ditch between the house and barn, but it has standing water in the spring time, so that rules out about 95% of possible trees.

You also mention the protecting trees to the south and SW, they are large Oaks, with most of their leaves off in the Winter, will they still provide some protection from the winter sun? If that's the case, (filtered sun) I doubt that it would get much direct sunlight during the winter. Just making a guess, Maybe an hour or two in the Morning once it gets past the house and barn, then it hits the big oaks to the south and south west, and then maybe another hour or so in mid afternoon when it reaches a gap in the oaks, hickory's, and walnuts before hitting the woods to the SW and west.

As for the Cryptomeria, I wintered a couple over in my nursery last winter, and have planted several this year. The ones I wintered over survived with no problems, however, my Black Dragon has a little browning on it. It was very large though. Probably 30-36" when I received it in late May or so. I think I may have given him to much water earlier on, I let it dry out for a while, and gave it a nice watering this morning.

I agree with you on Darren's watering idea. I think that is absolutely brilliant. It is a trick I def. plan to try out. I'm a little over halfway (North) between Cincinnati and Toledo, but as far as what I have planted so far, with the winter we had last year, I'm amazed that I didn't lose more than I did. I think I only lost three trees last winter/spring. A pine came out beautifully, but gave up in late spring, a red bud I planted last Nov. (came dormant, so I'm not sure if it wasn't stressed/dead/dying to begin with) and a Jap. maple that was stressed last fall budded out and then a hard frost got it this spring. Then the Ash Borer has gotten a beautiful ash that was out by the deck. Prob. 10-15 yrs old. I'm pretty sure they have signed it's death sentence. I've been trying for two years to keep it alive, and the only way for it to look any worse next year would be to die completely. If it doesn't look any better, it's coming down next spring.

Thanks again everyone! You've been a huge help!

Eliot

Hi Eliot. This is just my opinion, but if you want to try a weeping form, you might have better luck with Barabits Requiem, which I think is hardier. I know Iseli's carries it so if you have a local nursery that sells Iseli's plants see if they can bring it in for you.

I dont like the serpentine Blue Atlas Cedars either. I think they are ugly. :) But, I love the weeping Blue Atlas and was very happy the way they came through this past winter. Do you see many out your way that came through the past winter? How do they look? Most here seem to have recovered, even those that I thought were toast because they were so burned.

I think the key to Cryptomeria, Cedrus, Cupressus and other marginal conifers in Ohio is to keep them out of winter sun which isnt hard to do in Cleveland since its NEVER sunny. :)

Eliot,

All your questions about the Oaks and so forth are exactly what I'm talking about.

'Black Dragon' - it's probably one of the toughest ones. It's a crispy plant way before the others. I say this with experience.

You're on the right track.. As Will said to me the other day, "the fast track." And 'Spring Grove Cemetary', that's one of the most diverse collections, anywhere.

Later,

Dax

I keep hearing everyone talk about the Spring Grove Cemetery, both here and on a couple other sites. I don't get to Cincinnati much anymore, but maybe I should take a drive some day. Is it just a cemetery that has a plant collection, or is it actually a garden/arboretum, or something along those lines?

One thing I forgot to mention, and this just occurred to me. The area where I am doing this is part of what used to be about an acre vegetable garden from the previous owner. He turned it into yard before I bought it, but he did leave a large strawberry patch, and that is where this is going. As well as the fact, that before he built the house, the whole property was his horse pasture. He and his wife lived next door at the time.

None of that information is probably relevant to any of this, but I just thought of it, and decided to throw it out. If I knew where to get an aerial view of the place I would post that. I've seen some of you post them. Any suggestions?

Thanks again for all the help and wonderful suggestions.

Eliot

Re screaming for attention: have you got a Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Wissel's Saguaro?'

KarinL

Karin-

Thanks, picked one up earlier this year. Gonna be a long time till mine so much as says "boo" though. Only about 10" or so tall. From what I gather they are pretty slow growing (Just like the real Saguaro's"). How is yours doing? Is it putting out any "arms" yet? Would love to see a current pic of it.

Eliot

If your looking for an aerial view,try VirtualEarth or Google Earth.I think VE is better.

lp

Hey Nikki,

Any clue where on the Clinic's campus those three plants are? I'd love to see them.

Steg