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Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

Posted by TreeHouse157 5 (My Page) on
Mon, Sep 26, 11 at 9:10

I'm currently removing a stand of 29 dead black austrian pines due to wooley adelgid.
I need a replacment evergreen. I'm thinking maybe norway spruce or Japanese cedar 'radicans'
Maybe using a combination of 2 species?
Any suggestions?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

I don't think you meant wooly adelgid which is a pest of Hemlocks (Tsuga). Austrian pine is pretty susceptible to a number of North American fungi that are killing a lot of trees. Which one depends on where you live.

If you are in zone 5 (as your profile indicates), you might want to pass on the Japanese Cedar. Your geographic region would help us a lot in recommending a good replacement (ie. one adapted to the climate, precipitation, and the absence of known pests or diseases).


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

Probably your culprit is Pine wilt nematode.

Destroying all Pinus sylvestris and nigra in mid-west.

Yes, a little more information on your geographic location would be beneficial before advising what to plant.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: PWN


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

never plant all of one think.. stuff happens ..

diversify ...

we need info in regard to the planting.. if its a wind/sight block.. it is what is called a soil conservation issue ... the state of MI has district offices that sell plants for such ... small and cheap.. perhaps your state does also ...

if we are talking say.. a 100 foot boundary line.. i would suggest at least 3 to 5 different plants ..

more info on the whole project.. and perhaps you can link us to the prior post ... which i think was in another forum ...

i would throw some thuja green giants in the project ...

ken


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

My parents had a similar problem.

White Pine. They survived the diseases that destroyed all are Black Pines, and are native.

I find Spruce and Fir survived the blights that killed Black Pines well.

If you want something similar, Pitch Pine is similar to Black Pine...but not a very attractive tree.


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

I would pick Pinus resinosa (American Red Pine) as a good alternative, which is more simular then Pinus rigida (Pitch Pine).


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

Isn't Pinus heldreichii even more similar to P. nigra?
I'm led to believe that it is also pretty much not susceptible to pine wilt nematode.


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

Pinus heldreichii is susceptible to another disease were it's sap it's bleeding, I don't know the name for it.
For this reason I didn't mention this species.
On the other hand Pinus resinosa is an U.S. native species which is I think free of diseases.

Actualy Pinus heldreichii was found in Europe were Pinus leucodermis and Pinus nigra met, so it's a cross.
This was told to me once by the late Mr. Van Hoey-Smith...


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

"Pinus heldreichii is susceptible to another disease were it's sap it's bleeding, I don't know the name for it.
For this reason I didn't mention this species.
On the other hand Pinus resinosa is an U.S. native species which is I think free of diseases
"

Not heard of a disease affecting this in Europe. But as a European species, it can't be relied on to have any resistance to Pine Wilt Nematode.

"Actualy Pinus heldreichii was found in Europe were Pinus leucodermis and Pinus nigra met, so it's a cross.
This was told to me once by the late Mr. Van Hoey-Smith...
"

Mr. Van Hoey-Smith was wrong here; Pinus heldreichii and P. leucodermis are the same plant; as P. heldreichii was published a year earlier (1863 vs 1864), that is the valid name. There are no verified hybrids of it with P. nigra.

Resin


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

Resin, I looked it up on the net and the disease I was talking about is Diplodia which also may the cause of sappy stem cankers.

The strange thing is that only Pinus heldreichii (the "cross") has this kind of disease.
It's familiar that Pinus nigra is susceptible for diplodia.
Clément told me once that he has a true Pinus leucodermis in his garden which is free of this disease.

Another story I heard from a famous German witches' broom hunter was that he found true Pinus leucodermis with it's typical snakeskin bark.
In that same area there were also trees with the same growing habit but without this snakeskin characteristic.
Pinus nigra was also growing there which makes me think that something must be true what Van Hoey-Smith, the witches'broom hunter and Clément were telling me.

What I learned is that the more people you're talking to, the more info you'll harvest...


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

"In that same area there were also trees with the same growing habit but without this snakeskin characteristic"

That just varies with age; young trees have smooth bark, the 'snakeskin' character only develops with age. Here, a ~1300 years old Pinus heldreichii in Bulgaria:

"What I learned is that the more people you're talking to, the more info you'll harvest..."

But also, the more misinformation it is possible to harvest ;-)
Businskÿ (Mitt. Deutsch. Dendrol. Ges. 79: 91-106, 1990) clearly demonstrated that the two are identical, and this has been supported by several recent genetic studies (which incidentally also show it is not closely related to P. nigra).

Resin


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RE: Replacement for Austrian Black Pines?

It would be logical that the trees had the same age, some with the snakeskin bark and the other without.

The book Krüssmann wrote describes Pinus heldreichii and Pinus leucodermis as separate species.
He mentioned that Pinus heldreichii doesn't have the snake skin bark while Pinus leucodermis does.
Older specimens of Pinus heldreichii should have an ash gray bark.
Pinus leucodermis has it's needles clustered at the branch tips and the cones are showing differend scale ends.

He also says that many authors see Pinus leucodermis as a natural variety of Pinus heldreichii.

Well, I didn't see all this with my own eyes, some info that was said to me which could be misinfo...

Like said before, I'm not a species specialist, but I'm learning... ;0)


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