if you mean picea omorica .... see link for potential ..

it does just fine in z5 .... dont see why it would make a diff in your z6 ....

once established.. getting 2 to 3 feet a year on the leader ...

cool bicolor needles ...

it will be a huge tree ... no doubt about that ...

as with any collector.. my vote is that you have to have at least one... lol ...

ken

duhhhh

Here is a link that might be useful: link

A fantastic spruce. Much more desirable than either pungens or abies. I've used a number of seedlings to screen my property along a chalky-limestone-rock road that blows this limestone dust into my property as cars cruise past. Omorika/orientalis will not even flinch with high ph's... both from the same native environment, growing next to each other, in the wild. Just thought I'd add extra-information with regards, to Picea orientalis.

Dax

well I may need to add to my order now-or maybe swap out one of the norways for a siberian, they did look very nice the ones i spotted at the nursery. I've read that they don't get as wide as a norway? not sure that this is correct though. thanks
thetman

Most Serbian spruce you'll see at 10 feet are just a mere four feet wide at the base of the tree. They grow very, narrowly-upright, for a long-time. Sure, they will become large trees but nothing at all like either Norway or Colorado.
When they're grown from seed the chances of a wide Serbian are still quite slim.

15 feet tall, maybe six feet wide at the base. Omorika's 50 feet tall, probably 12-15 feet across at the base. I'd describe them as: narrowly-pyramidal.

Dax

Hi. I found my small (18" / 45 cm) Serbian spruce very slow at first. This season it put on 6" /15 cm of new growth. T.

Of all the conifers I grow in my garden Picea omorika is virtually trouble free. Picea abies comes in a close second. Picea orientalis third and Pines... always something going on.
Arborvitaes no issues if bag worms are controlled.

Dave

well thats good to know-one I am still confused about is the width on these- after doing some research and looking at so many pictures- it seems they vary quite a bit on how wide they actually get. some look nice and fat- others look very tall and slender. I was looking for something that will fill out more in the midsection ..Ha! maybe the nursery can enlighten me on what they have in stock.
thetman

The only thing I'd add is that in my experience, omorika is quite a bit less vigorous, ie. fast-growing than abies, and a bit less so than pungens. I like them, but for my tastes, they are definitely NOT superior to NS. Then again, few trees are in my hierarchy of cool trees!

+oM

Say what...? When I drive around and finallllly see a Picea omorika............... .my day is more interesting.

Dax

The original Serbian Spruces brought into cultivation were very narrow-crowned, high altitude origins; these are the "classic" ones everyone likes:
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More recent introductions have included lower altitude origins with broader crowns; these are becoming predominant now in newer plantings. Still nice, but they do need more space:
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Resin

"Omorika/orientalis will not even flinch with high ph's... both from the same native environment, growing next to each other, in the wild"

Sorry, not so!! They grow 1,700 km away from each other, in Serbia, and northeastern Turkey, respectively ;-)

But yes, both are limestone tolerant, and yes, seeing one makes a day more interesting . . .

Resin

That's my one mistake for the year. Dax

The Serbians I saw at the nursery were very fat-which could probably mean nothing in future growth. Pineresin-great pics- but even those vary greatly in the width of the tree. I guess if I just put aside enough room- then it won't matter how wide it gets.

I side with tom on this one. I prefer Norway spruce to the others, but Norway spruce is very variable, and some strains don't do well or look really good in some parts of the country. Also, there is a lot of variation from tree to tree, whatever the seed source.

Oriental would be my second choice, and Colorado, where it is trouble free, my third.

As for Serbian, here are my thoughts based on what I have seen. I have grown a few here near Winchester, VA, a hot, dry Z6. Here they are very, very slow growing, and with age tend to become thin and can struggle. But as resin points out, Serbian spruce from diffferent sources may not perform the same.

In the mountains of Western MD, a moist Z5, they do better, but are mostly slow growing. The one exception is a few I planted on a very wet bottomland soil. These are not flooded, but they are about 2 feet above the high water level of a beaver pond. These have grown fast--they are 45 feet or more in 20 years. These are the more narrow variety, and are nice trees, but they are rather "shapeless." They have a very even conical shape, but there is little interest in the branches--they are more or less solid cones. Maybe I can find a picture and post later. Those planted on more upland soils--still rich--are growing rather slowly.

Norway spruce are big, bold trees, and they often have more open crowns and beautifully weeping branchlets. They grow more beautiful with age. When they are very young, Serbian spruce are as beautiful as any spruce tree--maybe the most beautiful. But as they age, to me they lose something. With Norway, it is the opposite--the older the more beautiful.

--spruce

Yep, they're all nice trees, spruce.

All this time I was thinking but didn't mention that my seedlings are all sourced from the narrow-forms of Yugoslavia.
They were purchased from Treehaven Evergreen Nursery and next year (3 years in the ground) I can expect here in IL 2-3' of growth and then 3' a year (1M). This year, they grew a foot.

(So...)
Best Regards,

Dax

Great Photos. Very cool.

Thanks Spruceman--

Dax

Wow great photos spruceman..love it! They really give a full understanding of the potential of these trees with a person standing next to them. clearly a difference between the two species.
thetman

Just a little more info/thoughts:

The Oriental and Norway spruce pictured are about 80 years old. The Norway are about 10 or 15 feet taller than the Oriental, but the size difference is not that important, really.

The pictures don't really do justice to these trees--they are both absolutely knockout gorgeous when you stand near them and look up into their crowns.

I said that the Norway spruce are vary variable. The Oriental spruce are also, with some having much more "open" crowns and weeping branchlets than others. Also, for both Norway and Oriental there are some beautiful medium/large cultivars that may be the way to go. This way, you know more exactly what you are getting. But in general, Oriental spruce are a bit more reliably pretty than Norways, but at their best, Norway spruce are among the 5 or 10 most beautiful trees in the whole wide world. My opinion, but one shared by many who have seen the best Norway spruce trees.

As for the Serbian, which are also at their best in the right climate--cooler and wetter than here near Winchester, VA--are beautiful trees also, and offer some nice cultivars as well. In areas where I have lived, Serbian spruce are rather rare. There was only one older one that I know of here near Winchester, VA, but the owner cut it down last year. It was looking like it did not really like the climate here, but I thought it was pretty enough to keep its life. I have never seen one, except for mine, in Garrett County, MD where my timberland is. I don't think that even the National Arboretum in D.C. has any--at least I haven't seen any, and if they were outstanding in any way, I wouldn't have missed them all these years.

But really, you can't go wrong with any of these three trees, unless, fingers crossed, you get a Norway spruce "dud." There is a possibility of that happening. But if you buy a larger one--something like 8 feet tall--what you see at that point, is very probably what you get. With really small seedlings, you can be taking a chance. Also, try to buy one locally grown.

--spruce

My experience with P. omorika is based on when I lived in Ohio and Minnesota. They do well in both places, but in zone 4 MN they burned some in severe winters, though not as severe as P. orientalis there. I always admire P. omorikas with the narrow crown and the abundant purple cones at a young age are nice. The trees grow moderately fast if given moisture.

One issue I have seen with them is susceptibility to the white pine weevil - Pissodes strobi. This is an issue in Ohio and causes the leaders to die and you get forked crowns. Also, they can be susceptible to Leucostoma canker - same disease that causes branches to die from the bottom up on many older Colorado spruce in the east. One plantation of P. omorika (yes, a plantation - maybe an old Christmas tree grower) has been damaged quite a bit from canker.

Here at 6500' in Colorado (z5) I have 4 Serbian spruce and they are fairly narrow in form (like a smaller version of http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Picea_omorika_2.JPG and are growing slower than the other varieties you are asking about ... quite a lot slower. I'm seeing no more than 6" per year and probably less. They are fairly narrow ... the ones I got are from Forestfarm and arrived quite small. The bicolor needles are cool and rather small compared to picea ... and the branches on mine and finally starting to curve upwards on the ends ... so overall, a very nice tree ... but not particularly thick or full. Right now, I can't imagine these being useful screens in Colorado. They are significantly skinnier than the other spruce, pine and fir ... and that are a little prone to dry wind burn at times. THey seem to be tougher than they look.

I'll heap on the praise for Picea omorika here. Beautiful form, needles, cones and very tidy and relatively narrow compared to most landscape conifers.

There are numerous cultivars of virtually all shapes as sizes as well if someone has gardening needs that are very specific.

Finally, ZERO pest, climate or soil/growth issues here in the Pacific Northwest. If anything, it grows too quickly!

-Will

well I am bit dissapointed now-as I posted in another thread (probably shoould have stayed in thisone) but what I thought or was told was a serbian-are infact fraser fir trees-which right now I am having some doubts about buying from all the information I've been reading- seems to have much more problems than a serbian-and is initially only grown to be later killed so it can be someone's christmas tree. I was really looking forward to getting a serbian-don't et me wrong the fraser's look very nice..now- but I'm afraid of down the road- it seems the serbian might have been the better purchase in the long run. I may swap out the fir's for two more norways then. again tons of valuable information and pics in this thread though. at least I am now aware more of the serbian incase one comes across my path.
thetman

Thetman:

If you are considering fir trees, I would broaden your search beyond fraser. You can look through the Forest Farm catalogue and see lots of firs. Two that I would begin any recommended list with would be Nordmann and Holophylla, but there are others that may be just as good for you there. You could set up a new topic, explain just where you are, your climate, etc., and get new recommendations.

There are also some very hard Deodar cedars--wonderful trees not planted nearly enough. Fast growing, very graceful, tough.

--spruce