The second one.

The third.

Thanks for the quick response Dave. The soil is very loose in this planting area since we just built up this berm last month. I'm also thinking the odds are high that we will have some major wind this winter. We rarely have a winter without a couple good storms. I will try to get the dh to stake them for support.

What do you think of the third pic? Does it seem to be trying to grow downward? Just a little nervous about that one.

stake only for one year... until the roots grab hold..

forget about the leader... it either comes back up itself.. or it sends up a new one ... and you you act according then ... this time of year.. its probably not too flexible .... to pull it back ...

do you have a plan for mulch

ken

Ken, I'm hoping to get some bagged mulch down in the next couple weeks. Probably whatever's available at HD this time of year. I'm planning to put newspaper down first, then the mulch because the weeds are really sprouting.

Thanks for the info about leader on that third tree. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens:)
Terri

I guess I'll just wait and see what happens:)

==>>>

yes.. AND UNDERSTAND ... you wait in TREE YEARS... not Terri years...

i have one of these.. that i have been waiting 5 years.. for it to get its act together.. so i can remove an extra leader ..

there is simply no hurry with conifer trees ..

too many peeps go all anal on them.. and think they are annuals.. and SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE NOW ...

took me about 15 years of growing conifers.. to develop this insight ...

ken

ps: actually.. part of why i am waiting.. is that the extra one.. is starting to bend over.. and since i am the founding member of the WEIRDER THE BETTER CLUB ... i am hoping i can encourage it into something truly UNIQUE .... you have 3.. any reason you insist they be exact duplicates????

Terri, Youve got some really nice trees there. I would stake all three without hesitation.

Al

let me clarify ....

in my sand.. which is near concrete after PROPER WATERING IN ... i would NEVER stake a plant that size ... it would simply not tip over in my soil ....

BUT.. because you just built the berm.. i am concerned.. that it.. itself.. has not settled ...

your problem is it tipping over in dormancy ... especially if your soil does not freeze solid..

so in this situation.. i would stake until it all settles in..

and again.. no more than one year ...

after that.. i would get tired of looking at the stakes...

do you care to discuss how you planted them??? were the roots circling a pot.. did you unwind them.. etc ... NOW IS THE TIME TO FIX IT ...

review the link.. and lets discuss EVERYTHING you may have done wrong ... IF you wish ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Al and Ken- I will definitely stake these for the next year. I don't want them tipping over in a storm.

Ken, when planting, we followed the instructions from the nursery. Their instructions were to leave the root ball intact and don't do anything to damage or destabilize it. We just removed them from the pots and planted with compost and the existing soil. The roots were circling in the pot, so I really hope we don't run into problems with the roots girdling as I read in your link. We also bought Myke's growth supplement which gives us a 5 year warranty on these trees. We don't always have a whole lot of luck with new trees so this was a no brainer for us at $25.

What do you think, I hate to dig them up and replant now. Hostas are so much easier!

Terri

Hi Terri, you're a new friend. Time for some tuff luv. LOL.

Oh, man; my-oh-my, no! If you just sunk the thing in the ground that *might* actually work (but probably not).

Growth supplement?!? That was snake oil that they sold you so you could "buy" your guarantee. If yours is a reputable nursery, they would have given you a year's guarantee, gratis. In reality, most plantings will fail within the first year. It's very rare for a healthy plant to die within the 2-5th years.

You've got to untangle those roots. A lot of the guys will tell you to completely untangle them and neatly lay them out. Of course that'll work, but it could turn into an all-day job. For me, life's too short.

Me? As of late, I've taken to the "beat-the-rootball-on-a-rock" method. Just knock that root ball against a hard object. It will quickly loosen up the ball, bruise the roots just enough that it will stimulate growth, and knock out the spent nursery soil. After that, get the new root growth (white tips) spreading down and out and you should be good to go.

Please don't take any of this as "Dave beating you up." Quite the opposite. I want you to learn the game. Once you realize that garden centers make most of their money on hard goods, you'll have your answer. They teach their workers that, "success = selling a $25 tree along with $75 worth of supplements."

It's a "tree," Terri. They grow in the ground. Their roots will spread way beyond compost, fertilizer and "growth supplements." Conifers are easy. That's why they're so much fun to collect and grow. If you wanted a diva plant, you'd probably be hanging out on the rose forum.

Keep hanging out here, there's much to learn. Join the American Conifer Society when you feel the time is right. We'd love to have you.

~Dave

Myke is sold by a number of reputable nurseries here and they increase the guarantee beyond a year if you use it. I've never used it and my trees seem to do just fine. No idea what it is though.

As for root girdling, I'm too impatient to painstaking separate out the roots, so I do something not too dissimilar to what Dave described (minus the rock beating:). What I don't understand are commercial landscapers who seem to plonk giant trees into new developments with little care and still get a decent survival rate. On the other hand I've seen homeowners do the same and lose 9/10 arborvitae. Whats the secret for these commercial guys?

Dave, you're killing me here! I was so hoping you guys would say just to go with the nursery's instructions. Those root balls were really heavy! I do appreciate all of your advice though. Maybe I should have bought smaller trees, they would have been alot easier to plant. I will talk to my dh and see if he wants to work on loosening up those roots, it's definitely a two person job.

The nursery we bought them from is a very large nursery in this area. Their typical guaranty was a year, but we had a tree die a year and a half after we bought it so were out of luck. I figured for just $25 we wouldn't be out the cost of the trees if one of them died.

Thanks again for all the good advice!
Terri

Dave, you're killing me here! I was so hoping you guys would say just to go with the nursery's instructions. Those root balls were really heavy! I do appreciate all of your advice though. Maybe I should have bought smaller trees, they would have been alot easier to plant. I will talk to my dh and see if he wants to work on loosening up those roots, it's definitely a two person job.

The nursery we bought them from is a very large nursery in this area. Their typical guaranty was a year, but we had a tree die a year and a half after we bought it so were out of luck. I figured for just $25 we wouldn't be out the cost of the trees if one of them died.

Thanks again for all the good advice!
Terri

Did you pick these up from Steins? If so they come from Arada Farms. They are actually b&b plants stuck into a larger container with bark media. There is another common grower that I forget the name of that places like Minors, KW Greenery, Johnsons, etc purchase from that have the same practice.

Depending on how root bound you're talking I'd be tempted to replant and at least work some of those roots. At a bare minimum I'd make sure there aren't any encircling roots in the upper layer of soil. You certainly don't want to break up the root ball if they are b&b....especially this time of year in WI.

With a narrow plant like that and a fence I don't understand why you'd ever need to stake a plant like that if its a b&b. Certainly wouldn't hurt though.

Bottomline you got some nice looking plants for this time of year. All the Myke does is help your plant establish faster but ONLY works if you apply it directly to the roots. It doesn't have any benefit there after. $25 for a 5 year warranty on probably $300 or $350 in plants isn't such a bad idea. Although once a zone appropriate plant make its past year one and year two you're pretty well set.

Whaas, these were from Minor's and you were right on with the cost of the trees as well. We went there for the trees that were half off, but of course went home with full priced ones at double the cost! They looked so much better than the others.

We rubbed the Myke's on the outer roots of the root ball when we planted them. I could probably manage to untangle the roots near the surface.
That might be a little more manageable for one person.

Terri

whaas.. she just built the berm.. that she planted in.. i was worried about it being stable...

anyway.. i am of three minds in this ...

first.. if given a warranty ... you do as told ... 99% of my failures died within the first year ... dont sweat this ...

second ... these are large transplants... though i have done what dave suggests.. beating root balls... it was on one gallons pots that had 5 gallons of roots... and nearly no potting media ... though i rarely buy large .. i would NEVER break up a root mass on this size tree.. others do.. all the power to them.. do NOT sweat this ... lets be very clear ... it would never have grow to this size.. if there were significant root problems deep in there ... where you cant see ...

third.. at best.. on a large plant like this.. i would have simply loosened any roots on the surface.. and tried to guide them straight in the loose soil ..

in my barren sand.. i would have not even bothered with compost ... but i am glad that is all you used.. to worry about that .

finally.. as noted.. if they die.. it will be w/in a year.. return that voodoo stuff.. and send me the money.. and i will pray .... it will be as useful as anything else..

i think i am on my 5th or 6th mind ... lol ... go back to that link.. i will yell PERFECT PROPER WATERING... no matter what else is done.. how you water this plant for the next two years.. is what is going to make or break you .... conifers.. trees... want a good drink ... then fast full drainage [which is why there is a whole section on clay] ... and not another deep drink until NEARLY dry ... and you need to water the entire root mass you planted ... in my sand.. that might mean putting the hose on a trickle.. and letting it run for an hour to wet it all ... and then not watering again until my finger insert 2 or 3 inches.. indicated the soil is hot or drying.. this time of year.. for me in MI.. and you in WI ... that might mean they will need water late next may ... that is why its planting time .... but ONLY YOUR FINGER will tell you how it all works in your soil.. your micro climate.. and your garden ... in the alternative.. in my sand.. it might mean once a week in july/august and sept .... only my finger knows .... [yeah, yeah.. thats what the proctologist said.. ok.. i just disgusted myself.. but i bet you wont forget to check.. lol]

all that said.. if you are a worrier.. dig one back up.. snap some pix.. and lets us decide where to go from here ....

whaas.. just planted.. from scratch a very large collection.. and he sounds local ..... MAYBE.... if you offer him an industrial sized box of diapers.. for the babies... he will give you a tour.. and some in personal advice .. there is nothing like a live person when teaching..

of my 600 odd conifers... 80% came in the mail.. and 90% were less than a foot tall ... if you think you want to start collecting.. there are all kinds of resources for building a collection ... you thoroughly confuse me.. with buying 3 of anything... lol ,.. and do understand.. you probably could have 3 or 4 conifers for what you paid for one of these ....

i wish you luck.. and hope to see you back here.. ===>>> that is called enabling..

snap us a pic of one of them.. so you can relax??? .. if its worth your piece of mind.. this wouldnt be done in summer.. but this time of year.. in our zone.. the plant wont care ....

ken

I'd just let them be. Yeah, the rootballs could have been teased a bit, but the've done just fine up till now. Digging them up and working over the rootball would, in my opinion, do more harm than good. In all but the most extreme cases, the concern over circling roots is overestimated.
The loose soil, as Ken said, is more of a concern than the rootball in this case. I would do some precautionary staking.
Bagged mulch?!! Go get a couple of yards in a P/U truck or have ten or more yards delivered. Waay cheaper. Don't have a truck? I'm sure a friend does. Can't use ten yards? You will, trust me.
Mike

i agree with mike above..

but i said.. if it will drive you insane all winter.. then dig and pix ...

my proposal is about whats going on inside your head all winter.. not the tree .. if you see the difference

ken

OK, I feel much better now after reading Ken And Mike's posts. I was getting real worried about those roots. Ken, I bought three of the same kind of tree because I was going for a more landscaped look. I thought about doing three different ones, but had trouble deciding which ones would look good together. I guess I'm not as creative as you guys:) Anyway, I've been hanging out herefor a while, lurking. So consider me enabled!

The whole watering thing is an issue for me. I am so used to watering perennials, every day in the summer, that not watering these trees often goes against my nature. I'll try to follow your advice though.

Ken, I'm going to keep my voodoo stuff as you call it, but maybe with both of us praying this year they'll make it through!

Thanks again for all the great advice you guys! I'll be lurking here often and maybe add a couple more conifers this year.
Terri

OK, I feel much better now after reading Ken And Mike's posts. I was getting real worried about those roots. Ken, I bought three of the same kind of tree because I was going for a more landscaped look. I thought about doing three different ones, but had trouble deciding which ones would look good together. I guess I'm not as creative as you guys:) Anyway, I've been hanging out herefor a while, lurking. So consider me enabled!

The whole watering thing is an issue for me. I am so used to watering perennials, every day in the summer, that not watering these trees often goes against my nature. I'll try to follow your advice though.

Ken, I'm going to keep my voodoo stuff as you call it, but maybe with both of us praying this year they'll make it through!

Thanks again for all the great advice you guys! I'll be lurking here often and maybe add a couple more conifers this year.
Terri

Just be aware, the issue with circling roots is not "survival", as in, did the plant make it past warranty period. Of course a few circling roots will have no negative impact on this. No, the problem comes later when, if you will imagine, the roots increase in girth, the base of the trunk increases in girth, and what you've got is a plant that is strangling itself to decline or even death. I'm not sure how any responsible plant person can say this is an over-rated problem. It is the entirety of the reason that the nursery industry is scratching its head and coming up with new formats-Rootmaker pots, etc. They're trying to resolve this issue. Shouldn't the customer be at least as concerned?

+oM

I agree with +om. I never got a potted plant from Minor's that wasn't rootbound. I'd tease those roots out rather than living with a time bomb. I got a 6 foot Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns' from Minor's 3-4 years ago that I performed major root surgery on and it is doing fine today. They gave me the same 5 year offer for buying mycorrhizal fungi (I passed). I told them mature spruces grew all around me and the soil had to be loaded with it already. Also, when you buy in the fall you should know by the following fall if it made it. Spring buying can be trickier as a tree could die the following winter and not "brown out" until the weather warms and past your one year mark.

tj