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danael

Araucaria araucana

danael
12 years ago

Hello to everyone,

I am Daniel from Greece and I would like to plant a monkey puzzle tree in my garden.

the area is in mount Parnitha northwest of Athens at 650 meters of altitude.winters have some snow and cold like -15 to -17 Celsius depending on the year. summers are typically mediterranean with temperatures as high as 38 degrees, hot and dry.

Do you think it can survive well there with no problems?

my biggest fear is the dry weather during summer.

the area is a plateau with flora like Quercus pubescens, Pinus halepensis, Juniperus oxycedrus, and sporadically Abies cephalonica.

some people that own plant nursuries here told me that they don't bring this kind of Araucaria because during summers they die...

do you think is it worth the trying?

during winter we have plenty of fogs, but in summer the sky is usually clear.

in the same area I do have planted Cedars(all the species), Calocedrus, Abies (pinsapo, cephalonica, numidica), Pinus (heldreichii, cembra, nigra, sylvestris, pinea) and they all do great.

rainfall occurs around 700-800 mm a year and during summer I have 1-2 good rains only.

I will provide irrigations for sure!

the point is that if it will manage the hot weather during summer and the hot sun...

is my climate according to my writings a suitable one?

my fear is that during watering in summer alonside high temperatures may cause suffocative conditions to the plant.

someone from Germany told me that Araucaria araucana needs protection from full sun until they become 1 meter high.

is that true?

thank you

Comments (13)

  • pineresin
    12 years ago

    Certainly worth a try. The species gets dry summers like this at the northern end of its range in Chile. Some irrigation while it is young would probably help.

    Resin

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    12 years ago

    My understanding is parts of Greece can be very hot and humid by European standards. This tree is never found south of about Williamsburg, VA on the US East Coast because it gets too hot, and never north of Long Island, NY because it's too cold. Although the summers might be dry in Chile, I think of them as Los Angeles dry...i.e., almost never having a dewpoint above about 63F/16C. Athens avg. minimum in July is a stiffling 21C! So the dewpoint is obviously much higher.
    I think Danael should try it, but be realistic, if there are not any trees of the species in the area, there probably is a reason they are not there. Araucaria angustifolia might be a better choice, as it grows in the US SE and is much more heat/humidity resistant. It is also faster growing when young.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    12 years ago

    I hadn't read the full description of the climate. If you reach -17C you aren't zn 8, you are zn 7. It would be too cold for A. angustifolia. At that elevation the summers should be cool enough for the monkey puzzle tree.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    12 years ago

    I think as long as your average night time low temp. in summer is 16C or lower, the plant will grow well as long as it gets sufficient moisture during establishment.

  • coniferas_br
    11 years ago

    Hello
    This is my first (and late) post in the forum. The a. araucana tolerates high temperatures if the roots can reach water. In the low lands of the Bio-Bio region the summer can be very hot but the monkey puzzle trees are very common in the cities. On the other hand, a. angustifolia can tolerate low temperatures peaks as they grow in very cold places like this National Park where -10C is a very common temperature:

    http://www.mochileiros.com/download/file.php?id=8355
    http://www.mochileiros.com/download/file.php?id=8357
    http://www.mochileiros.com/download/file.php?id=8378

    I would give it a try to both araucarias, watering the araucana in its first 3-4 years of life and protecting the angustifolia from frosts in its first 2-3 years.
    Just now, I am trying to grow the a. araucana from seeds in southeast Brazil highlands and they are doing well, even with the high temps (33úC) and low humidity (20%) we are facing in the last three months.

  • floramakros
    11 years ago

    Hi Daniel, welcome! As you can tell from my user name I'm a big fan of Greece and all things Greek! My first instinct tells me you should be able to, but if you can contact the nearest botanical garden or plant society (is there a large plant nursery near you?) and ask them they can probably give you some good advice. A botany department of a university near you can also be quite helpful. Americans advising Greeks what they can grow in their garden is only slightly more ridiculous than Americans advising Americans in other regions! ;-)

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    11 years ago

    Flora your advice to the OP is good advice, I'm not sure people advising people in other regions (whether American or not) about plant performance is always "ridiculous." In that case both bboy and I are guilty of being very ridiculous, even though we sometimes don't agree on a species or cultivar. (more often than not we do)

    If danael was asking here it all, the preponderance of evidence would suggest that someone educated enough to be using scientific names and carefully describing the local flora and climate in detail would have already exhausted some local avenues for determining whether the plant can grow at all in his area.
    The Greeks don't have reputation for being anglophiles that the certain Italians once did, but it must be remembered that up until WWII English culture or at least the ideal of English culture was tremendously influential throughout Europe and the English speaking world. This theme is found, for example, in the writings of John Lukacs. They did spend a century or so being the world's leading superpower. If a plant was a rage in Victorian England and and slightly later in the gardening culture elsewhere in Europe, it's hard to imagine some weren't tried in various parts of Greece. (I remind people it was the English who introduced it to Europe) So I (hopefully) helpfully pointed out to Danael that if it wasn't seeing even one in his area, it might be because they don't grow well there. I would neither try to unrealistically boost expectations or unrealistically torpedo them, but just offer an opinion on what the area's climate (not difficult to characterize these days due to the wealth of info on the WWW) and plant's known issues (like not growing at all in the SE) suggests.
    Although Greece can be more humid than some Mediterranean climates, they lack the huge deluges of summer rainfall that occur with some regularity in the Southeast (or even the regular rainfall obviously), thus it would not surprise me if monkey puzzles were found as low as sea level in certain parts of Greece, although probably not Athens. (96/78F, 36/25C in summer, averages! yuck! Santiago, CL's record high is 99/37C) If some areas are more like Tirana: summer max of 90/64F, that seems more promising. (Yes, he's at elevation but I'm just using sea level as a baseline) This page says some grow in Florence, which is a little warm in summer: http://www.havlis.cz/karta_en.php?kytkaid=873

  • jick
    11 years ago

    Hello all, I presentably live near central Texas. And am very interested planting another Monkey Puzzle Tree in the Texas Hill County. I live roughly half way between San Antoine and Austin TX. The town I live in is Blanco TX.
    I grew a fine Monkey Puzzle tree in Northern California. I ordered one seedling this spring and have now planted the tree from a pot, to in the ground. It has been doing well so far. (Size: about a foot tall).
    I ordered another tree but have not received it and I am waiting for its arrival. I have one problem, I lost the order number. Does anyone know who the seller may be? Hopefully the seller may read this and then get in touch with me.
    Please respond with any comments on the growing area and my lost order.
    Best Regards,

    Jick

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    11 years ago

    I need to fix a couple things posted earlier:

    Just now, I am trying to grow the a. araucana from seeds in southeast Brazil highlands

    Only the Parana Pine (A. angustifolia) is native that region. Sure, cultivated monkey puzzles may grow well because of the relatively cool summers in that area.

    from wikipedia about A. araucana: Its native habitat is the lower slopes of the Chilean and Argentinian south-central Andes, typically above 1,000 metres (3,300 ft).

    This is my first (and late) post in the forum. The a. araucana tolerates high temperatures if the roots can reach water. In the low lands of the Bio-Bio region the summer can be very hot...

    Sure in their native part of South America where nights are cool and heavy summer moisture from hurricanes non-existent (There is simply no equivalent type of storm down there, the water is too cold. They might get heavy winter rainfall, but that's completely different.) they "tolerate high temperatures" because there isn't the combination of very warm and moist soil that causes the disease and decline they invariably experience in the US SE.

    In the Hill County, it's very hard for me to imagine a monkey puzzle lasting for more than a couple years. It's just so darn hot (and high dewpoints) there compared to its native range. I believe there are some in the central Valley of California, but they are cooler at night and have essentially no summer rainfall. It seems likely any survivors would be known as is the case with the East Coast trees. So you'd be much better off with an A. angustifolia.

  • ian_wa
    11 years ago

    I think A. araucana would grow fine for you, with lots of water; because if you're at 650m, it must get at least somewhat cool at night during the summer. Hey, it grows in Kennewick in eastern Washington. The winter extremes you mention are also not too cold for it.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    11 years ago

    Ian is the tree in Kennewick in a garden setting where it might get irrigation runoff? Or in a swale or something? It's no doubt a tree native to a climate that is dry for some of the year, but 8 inches a year is pretty darn dry, especially since it's spread out and not seasonally concentrated. I suspect a lot of the summer rain evaporates out of the top layers of soil.

  • ian_wa
    11 years ago

    I'm sure it's getting plenty of water from irrigation - in general, Kennewick is well supplied with water from the Columbia Basin irrigation project.

  • coniferas_br
    11 years ago

    David, I was talking about Daniel trying to grow a. araucanas in Greece, where the summer is hot and dry, not in US SE.