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is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Fri, Nov 20, 09 at 11:31
| gary gee scion.. that i grafted myself at a grafting class he gave ... his mature plant is wonderful ....
i like the color.. the growth rate ....
i take him at his word on what he started with ....
but i wonder what you guys think about the alleged cross
thx
ken
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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- Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 20, 09 at 12:43
| Does the older specimen produce cones? |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| Sure is a good-looking thing, whatever it is. +oM |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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This isn't a cross between A. procera and A. koreana.
This is a cross between A. procera and A. lasiocarpa. The foliage is partly typical for A. procera but the big pointed buds with the brown end are typical A. lasiocarpa. |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| Normal Abies lasiocarpa, probably subsp. arizonica. I don't see any Noble Fir or Korean Fir influence here. Also, while A. lasiocarpa and A. koreana are closely related in the same section of the genus, A. procera is not, and is highly unlikely to be able to hybridise with either of those two. Resin |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| I see clearly the upright needle structure of A. procera involved in the photo's which Ken showed us. Beside this, there are also several crosses made by Kurt Wittboldt-Müller from Germany between A. lasiocarpa and A. koreana.
This makes it clear that it is possible to cros these also when they are not closely related in the same section of the genus. A cross between A. lasiocarpa x A. koreana is called Abies x lasiokor. A cross between A. koreana x A. lasiocarpa is called Abies x koreocarpa. |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| I've emailed Dan as I'm quite certain he has a photo of Gary's specimen. Maybe it'll help. Dax |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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Edwin,
strictly speaking if Abies x koreocarpa is good, should not the reverse cross be better as Abies x lasioana ?? |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| Hi Coniferjoy, "I see clearly the upright needle structure of A. procera involved in the photo's which Ken showed us" That uprightness is normal for Abies lasiocarpa; see e.g. this pic, which is of a wild plant so definitely not a hybrid. The only difference of Ken's specimen is that it is a strongly glaucous-foliaged selection. "Beside this, there are also several crosses made by Kurt Wittboldt-Müller from Germany between A. lasiocarpa and A. koreana. This makes it clear that it is possible to cros these also when they are not closely related in the same section of the genus" A. lasiocarpa and A. koreana are closely related, both in sect. Balsamea. So this hybrid is no surprise. "A cross between A. lasiocarpa x A. koreana is called Abies x lasiokor. A cross between A. koreana x A. lasiocarpa is called Abies x koreocarpa" Sorry, no; all hybrids between any pair of species must bear the same name; which parent is male makes no difference. So at least one of those names must be a synonym. Whichever name was first validly published takes priority. See ICBN Art. H.4. BTW, has either of these names been validly published under the provisions of the ICBN? Resin |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| Dax, I think this is the photo that you wanted. 
Dan |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| P.S. I'm pretty sure the photo I posted is Abies koreana x lasiocarpa. Gary has both this and procera x koreana. Dan |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| That's a handsome looking fir Dan |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| "Gary has both this and procera x koreana" Well, claims to have the latter! I've still yet to see any evidence that this hybrid exists at all. Resin |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| Hi Resin, This is all from memory from a few years ago so it's possible I'm mistaken. I know Gary has one listed as a procera hybrid. I'll probably head out there again in the Spring and I'll try to make a point of asking him about it and try to take some closeup and distance shots. Regards, Dan |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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- Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
Sun, Nov 22, 09 at 20:01
| Two different items of that parentage are listed. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Gee Farms Catalog 2008 Conifers PDF
As I Suspected
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- Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
Sun, Nov 22, 09 at 20:06
| Stanley nursery lists it also (on page 10): "Leaves are blue and look like a Noble Fir. When crushed smells like a Korean Fir" |
Here is a link that might be useful: Stanley and Sons Online Catalog
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| Thanks Dan for searching for that photo. It appears that I made a mistake and that I missed the topic of this post all-together and asked for a photo with A.koreana genes. No help at all to the guys. Thanks again though. Dax |
RE: is it really Abies procera x Abies koreana
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| Should have said without lasiocarpa... Dax |
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