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Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 28, 11 at 12:42

anyone else have any pix????

hasnt been much of anything .. but it is finally putting on some size.. so one of two things will happen ...

it will turn into a favorite..

or it will die this winter ... lol

who was wingle ....

and why are there so few other fraseri.. that i am aware of ...

ken

Photobucket

Photobucket


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 28, 11 at 13:20

I have a little bitty itty one. Nice color indeed.

Is it just 'Blue Bonnet' btw?


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

i am sure joy will let us know..

the label is made at planting.. though i might change the database.. the label will always be a such

ken


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

It was found as a blue seedling selection by Mat Wingle at an Christmas tree farm.
He named it 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet' but for some this was to long and it was shortened into only 'Blue Bonnet' which is illegitimate...


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Mon, Nov 28, 11 at 17:44

So that means 'Blue Bonnet' is not accepted by the standards?

Sounds like we should indeed use 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet' then?


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Yep, we must use 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet' because that's the original name given to this plant and nobody has the right to change it in the way they like...

Ken wrote it in the right way (this time) ;0)


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 30, 11 at 13:20

You know what I love about posts like these?

#1 You get to see a beautiful pic of the plant
#2 You get to see the various names of the plant
#3 You get clarification on the right name
#4 If you search for Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet' or even 'Blue Bonnet' this is the #1 google hit, boom!

Everything (well almost) you'd want to know about this cultivar is RIGHT here!

So thanks to all who post pics of their cultivars...and Edwin (and others) for the stories and names behind the plant.


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

It's a shame because 'Blue Bonnet' was evocative wheras 'WBB' sounds like a gin.

If it was less of a spreader I'd snap one up in a second. Supreme.


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Matt first distributed this plant as 'Blue Bonnet'. My first scions from him in the early '80's were simply labled Abies fraseri 'Blue Bonnet'. The Wingle's was added at a later date. Possibly the same thing as what happened to Dick Bush's plants. After they had already been shared with others and started showing up in various locations, he decided he wanted Bush added to the name of each of his plants.

This inconsistency just adds to naming confusion.

Bob


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 30, 11 at 15:38

Cripes, now I need to go back to 'Blue Bonnet'?

I have to much respect for yourself and Edwin so I don't know who has it right.


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

The thing is that Matt himselve wanted to be his name involved in this cultivar name, it's his choice that the cultivar name is 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'.
In my opinion just 'Blue Bonnet' was the temporary name.

Indeed, the same thing happened with the Picea engelmannii 'Bush's Lace' and the Abies koreana 'Kohout's Icebreaker...


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Strictly speaking according to the code of nomenclature, once a plant name is published in a dated publication with a description that is the name of the plant and it cannot be changed. So when plants are shared and the founder adds to the name after it has been validly published, he is making a mistake. However, we can ignore the code to keep him happy and make the change as long as we all agree?

The point is: be careful before sharing plants and make sure they are properly named. Picea pungens 'Walnut Glen' had this problem and now is sometimes called 'Goldie'.

Likewise, Gunter Horstmann named a plant 'Horstmann's Silberlocke'. So that is what the name must be, not 'Silberlocke' as has often shown up recently. Likewise for Picea orientalis 'Tom Thumb Gold', which was shortened to 'Tom Thumb' to save lable space. These names have been shortened after being validly published, just the opposite of the other ones discussed.

Trying to keep the nomenclature straight is often like flailing at windmills.

Bob

Luckily nobody published the name 'Icebreaker' before Jorg changed it to 'Kohout's Icebreaker'.


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Bob, I guess your last comment about the 'Ice Breaker' is just a joke :0)
Google is full of 'Ice Breaker'.
To make this story more exciting, I received this one in 2005 as 'Silberlocke W.B.'...
That's why I mentioned all these 3 cultivar names at my website.


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

This old school intervention is note-worthy. Will 'Kohout's Icebreaker' succeed is only a guess. Likely, not ;0)

Thanks Bob,

Dax


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Dax, how did you name it at ACS Database?
You should be the one who's getting things straight isn't it :0)


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

I checked with the registrar for conifers at the RHS a few months ago since I plan on registering the golden seedlings I am introducing plus the ones that I sold and were named by others. Names and descriptions used on the internet are not presently accepted as valid publication for registration purposes. So we can add to the confusion all we want on the web by using names in lists or web based catalogs but to have a name accepted as the valid name, it has to be done in print. Hopefully the RHS will catch up to the digital world before too long.

Bob


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Haven't paid my dues to the ACS for a year. I have no access to The Conifer Database.

Dax


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 1, 11 at 18:02

Its listed as 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet' on the ACS.


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

That's what I thought :0)


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

so no one else has the plant.. and can add a picture????

ken


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Ken, unfortunately I don't have a pic of the one which I've here at my Pinetum, it's just a 2 year old one which doesn't show much character yet.
Luckily I found one at my friend Larry Stanley's website...

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Have to say I agree with Bob on this one, once a name has been validly published that's the name that should be accepted, adding Wingle's just adds to confusion as far as I'm concerned. I for one will stick with 'Blue Bonnet!


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RE: Abies fraseri 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet'

Who validly published it first under just 'Blue Bonnet'?

Stephen, if you agree with Bob how comes that you're publishing 'Kohout's Icebreaker' instead of 'Icebreaker' at your website?
Why don't you agree with 'Wingle's Blue Bonnet' but do you agree with 'Kohout's Icebreaker'?

Btw 'Kohout's Ice Breaker' is wrongly written...

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Kohout's Icebreaker'


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