You are extremely lucky to go 3 years with not damage if they are prominent in the area! I only protect the plants I care most dearly about (or the ones that cost the most $$$) because of the time and money involved in protection. I use hardware cloth or t posts with fishing line to keep the deer out. If I had to worry about voles or the rabbits were a bigger issue here, I would stick to hardware cloth.

All that said, deer can be seemingly random beasts behaviorally wrt to rubbing/browsing in most cases. However, if you can, look around your woods and check trees for rubs. Loblolly and shortleaf pines are magnets for the bucks around here and are preferred almost exclusively over the deciduous trees most years. I have 4 native loblolly pines growing on my property and all of them show a history of being rubbed. I'm sure they can smell them and are drawn to them for reasons only known to them. After all, it is believed deer have a much more sensitive sense of smell than dogs.

As Jon mentioned its completely random. I protect all thin barked trees every year with spiral wrap, no question. I wrapped them a month ago.

A couple weeks ago a deer took down (yes to the ground) a 6' nootkatensis 'Jubilee'. I haven't seen a deer in my yard for a couple years and now a couple fat ass does are tooling around my yard. I sent white lightening out to send em running.

See the link below for the "temporary" fencing I installed this year. So far its the best stuff I've used.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pocket Fence

Probably if I had to deal with plant loss as a result of Deer every season I would not spend the time and money growing specialized conifers.

My small garden is pretty well cordoned off from these plant eaters and I don't have any issues.

On the whole the area I live in is way over populated and needless to say they are responsible for much destruction of public plantings and numerous auto accidents. They did cull about 400 out of our public park two years ago but they are back in force again. Since they don't have any natural predictors to keep them in check they chomp and nibble anything in site. If they cull again I will oil up my 30.06 and be a front line assassin. I hate the damn things.

Dave

On my 18 acres, it's just a part of life. Not a fun part, I assure you, to drive up, get looking at all the nice larch, spruce, pine, etc. and then fix my gaze on what was a week ago one of the beauties. Dern deer. But yeah, that's my method-just plant a lot!

Early in this project, I put a lot more time into each individual plant. For instance, being then interested in Green Giant, we planted a smattering of these in the upland area (Their relatives-Thuja occidentalis- already make up a large percentage of the lowland growers). So I put concrete reinforcing wire cages around these. Well, as it turned out, the deer on my property never, and I do mean never, browse any Thuja. Hard to believe as you can see the typical browse line on stands not a mile away. So anyway, those cages all came off and I never protect anything anymore. But buck rubbing? Yeah, that gets me every now and then.

+oM

j0nd03 - Yeah, this is my 3rd year and have not even a nibble. I spray everything with DeerOut. However, I haven't sprayed anything yet this fall. Not sure if that stuff would keep them from rubbing too or not. But like I said, I always see them in multiples of 2-3 at a time, I've never seen one with antlers.

Will - Do you wrap that stuff directly around the plants or do you make a border around the property? I was thinking of next year perhaps wrapping the trees directly with some type of a netting or something like that pocket net you posted. Not sure how much that will help, but it's worth a shot. I have a couple of them wrapped with fishing line. The only problem with this is the rocky soil I have. It takes a lot to pound one stake into the ground. I have to keep repositioning the stake to miss the rocks. Definitely not something you can do around every plant.

Dave - I know... If only I could shoot a gun I'd eliminate some of the deer population around here. Perhaps I should take lessons and dig me a big hole in the back yard lol.

To be honest, if I have a few hundred conifers, dealing with a rub a year wouldn't be to bad & I could deal with that. I just don't want it to get to out of control. Like I said above, there is a lot of natural brush around here so they don't seem to nibble at all. Not sure if it's the stuff I spray on them, the fact they have sharp needles, the local brush vegetation, or a combination of them all. I just need to get them all to the stage to where they can resist rubbing. Surprisingly there are a lot of large natural blue spruces around here... with perfect form. If those were able to survive with no help... I should be able to get most of mine through the next 10 years.

+oM - Wow that's a lot of acres! How many conifers do you have and how often do you experience rubbing? I was looking out my back door this morning and that missing green giant stood out like a sore thumb. 20' over was my $100 Pinus strobus 'Angel Falls'... so it could have been a lot worse.

Like you, early in my project I spent a lot of time with each conifer. Spraying them every 3-4 weeks, walking around the yard daily, putting out bars of soap, hair, etc. The last 2 years I stopped spraying them in the summer and have had no problems. I still spray during the winter, but I have so many to be honestly losing 1 or 2 a year, especially a green giant isn't a huge deal and I would consider myself lucky. If the collection keeps growing, it becomes more of a numbers game than anythikng. You can't really focus on one or two plants... but focus on planting the next 30 or 40. That's why I think I can only help keep deer damage to a minimal by spraying. That will stop them from eating, but not to sure about rubbing. The only thing that stinks about losing that Green Giant is that it's so early in the season... so I'm not sure how much more rubbing there will be. If it was April and I lost it, I would have the who care's attitude. Now I'll probably find myself walking around the year daily to monitor everything... at lease until a week or so passes with no other damage to ease my mind lol.

Okay, this has been my prompt to get back out there and provide at least some degree of protection to those conifers that still require it ... otherwise, I just know I'll soon find a nice specimen or two all shredded to pieces. I don't have a massive collection, though none of these beauties came with a penny price tag!

Terrance

Ugg, buck rub is the worst!

Rick, I've been struck pretty much every year for the last 4 or 5 years in my area. Lots of deer here. The young bucks usually start striking and trying to decimate any conifer that looks like an upright post at the beginning of August, in my experience.

I've had multiple Nootkas taken out. It's like they're under siege or something. I wonder if the smell of them attracts them or something, because it's definitely more common for me than other conifers.

I've had one Green Giant as well as a Thuja plicata 'Zebrina' messed with. Definitely sets the plants back a few years, depending on the extent of damage. If they get all the way around the bark, ugggh...

I've got plastic chicken wire and that orange plastic fencing crap around 80% of the conifers I've planted in my .75 acre lot. Of course the deer never bother with the damn deciduous trees that just drop leaves for me to pick up...they also always seem to find the one tree I didn't wrap up or didn't do the best job on. Always a pain in the ass.

Dittos to jOnd03 for the fishing line tip. it will spook the you know what out of them.

When they get spooked they will run like crazy since they can't see the line. Ergo you will need to re-string your line as they break through it. I generally get 3 breaks a year. That's a small price to pay for the protection.

ricksample, the buck may be back to continue the dirty-deed on the same tree. Better protect it.

Dave, like you say, a cute face loses its cuteness when it's destroying your plants relentlessly. I learned to despise deer when they gradually chewed down the entire understory where I was in a forest in VA. After the tree-saplings were gone, they eliminated the mountain laurel, rhodos, and finally even cinnamon-ferns.

I see similar but less severe results here -- local hunting does work somewhat. Mostly now I just lay pieces of wire-fencing around the base of susceptible trees. They don't like walking on that....

To you all that string netting/plastic fencing around your plants... any pics? If it's that cheap plastic netting stuff you can get at HomeDepot for $50... it wouldn't be to bad.

My Green Giants and a couple pines are the only ones at risk for rubbing at the moment. They are probably 3-4' tall. Everything else is between 1-2' tall. But I definitely need something to protect them all probably starting next fall since a lot will be tall enough to attract those darn things. The netting idea, if it works, would be a cheap and fast way to protect them. It would take just a couple minutes per plant and the cost would be minimal. I think if this works I may also put this stuff around the smallest plants... just as an added precaution.

Is it something like this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tenax-3-ft-x-25-ft-Green-Poultry-Fence-090786/100384027#.UoIqHowo4eE

OR

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tenax-4-ft-x-50-ft-Saf-T-Sno-HD-Snow-Fence-000044/100384032#.UoIqM4wo4eE

Do I just wrap it around each plant and fasten it with staples? If so, I can start wrapping them up this Saturday. But I can't understand how exactly this netting would work. Does this netting just hold the plants together so they can resist damage a little more or does this netting actually keep the deer from rubbing?

steg, I've had multiple Nootkas taken out. It's like they're under siege or something. I wonder if the smell of them attracts them or something,. In deed. They target them here as well. The open weeping branches allow them to be an easy target as well.

Rick, I do what Tom does, plant so many that one plant won't be a devastating loss. I put it up as a border. I only did 1/3 of my property. Its where the deer and rabbits tend to creep out of their habitat from the surrounding woods or under the evergreens. I do protect many many trees with spiral wrap though. The will f those trees up in one night and come back. After this happened at my previous house I just don't mess around.

Don't get me wrong-despite my laissez-faire attitude, this thread has now gotten me nervous! But seriously, there's just so much a guy can do. What's worse in my case, it's also a workplace concern as a big part of what I do for a living consists of "native restoration". Right now, we've got some newly planted Thuja occidentalis and Larix laricina out in woefully vulnerable sites. We did place a barrier around the Thujas, but not the tamaracks. BTW, I've never yet-in my life-seen browsing damage on tamarack or any other larch. Does that match you guys' observations? Now buck rubbing, heck yeah, they love to mess with a nice, beautiful larch. But so far at least, no browsing damage.

+oM

I have 70 acres, 40 acres wooded. No losses and put out mineral blocks as enjoy watching the deer. That said how I have dealt with it is three German Shepherd dogs that were initially walked as puppies around the area I wanted critter free. All night now as adults they take turns walking the area. The only plants I protect is BP's as don't want them stepped on. No critter damage issues and lots of deer.

I use chicken wire around my smaller plants and have hung windchimes or fishing bells of all things from some larger ones. Usually I do it a day late but I don't get repeat attacks.

FWIW Missouri's largest irregular antlered deer was caught in a fence about five miles from my place

Do you all think plastic will work or should I go with steel. I know steel would hold up better, but not sure it would be to fun cutting enough for 200 trees.

I'll take a trip to home depot Saturday and probably get the plastic stuff per the link below. 100' should do all my plants... for $20 bucks you can't beat it.

I also have a lot of 2" by 4' wooden stakes laying around. I think I'll pound in 1 stake next to each plant... Then staple the mesh to the stake, run it around the plant a couple times then back to the stake where I can staple again. The stake would just be for added support... which can absorb some of the force if needed. This will definitely keep them from eating, but for rubbing... I guess we will find out.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions before I buy and make all these this weekend?

Here is a link that might be useful: Plastic Mesh

I use metal stakes from Gemplers. Next year I'll try wrapping fish line around the stakes. He rubbed this spruce two years in a row. He gets several of my Green Giants every year. It didn't take me long to track him down in this mornings fresh snow.

Frank

Did you shoot him?

The first year I moved in I had issues with deer browsing. There where more deer around as my dumb ass neighbour had a feeding station set up for them.

I did the stake and fishing line strategy the first two years and there where a couple breaks so it did work. Nearly no damage. Since then I haven't seen them until this year...but only a couple doe. At the end of the day rabbits are by far my worst enemy so I had to change to a fencing of some sort.

Rick, don't get that chicken wire crap. Its a son of a gun to work with and store. That plastic stuff you have at the link might work as a barrier for deer (although seems a bit short) but anything else will chew threw it, ie rabbits. My little kid could rip through it like paper. Check out the stuff I linked to. Its like strands of tarp, very strong. If you have Menards or Fleet Farm by you they carry it.

I'll give that plastic netting a shot... it looks like our local Home Depot only caries the one type, 7' tall by 100' long. I plan to just fold that in half (3.5' tall) then wrap it around the plant/pole once. Hopefully this stuff is somewhat durable... if it tears like a plastic bag I'll have to find something else. Looks like I have a small window... this coming weekend may be the last nice weekend of the year. I'll try to get them all wrapped up and I'll be sure to post a few photos and follow ups during the season just incase anyone else wants to give it a try.

I was in my field last month chopping down brush when one came up to me with it's young one. That thing started to dig it's hooves down into the dirt like it was going to charge. I just backed away... unfortunately, my axe wasn't by my side. If they want to play like that.... I'll start shooting lol.

Picea glauca 'Pendula' - Possibly my favorite tree, wrapped in plastic chicken coup fencing. No way I'm leaving that guy open to assault! Side note about this plant--was discovered in france; I now laugh every time I see one as if its arms are reaching for the sky in surrender!

Other various conifers wrapped up in a multitude of ways:

The farther away from the house/front yard, the greater the propensity of ugly, but economical, orange fencing used to protect plants.

Sometimes I'll throw a stake in the ground and then run the fencing around it. Other times I'll just bundle a plant up at 'antler level' and use twisty ties to hold the fencing in place. Another solution from HD or Lowes is to get some of that black plastic netting sold in the fencing area. It isn't hideous, the deer can't get past it, and in many instances, you can leave on year round and you don't notice it from afar. A bit more expensive than the orange stuff, but less than the metal options. Leave from deciduous trees do get stuck in them a lot, though.

I figure, it sucks to do the work and have to see the stuff concealing these plants, but I've dropped way too much jack on stuff and poured way too much of my time into caring for stuff to not drop $50 on some netting/spend an afternoon protecting stuff til it's bigger.

My parting thoughts on these damn animals known as deer: while this made me cry when I was 4 years old, now I enjoy this, as will many of you who've suffered from the indiscriminate thrashing of an expensive plant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3iK3rJUfU

Steg

I'm surprised only Cococo mentioned a dog. I haven't seen 1 deer in my yard since getting my Australian Shepherd..I used to see a couple a year, but they seem to avoid yards with dogs.

A dog can only do so much. Example, last week saw two doe in my yard. Sent my dog out, one deer split one direction and the other went another way. She could only chase one. That thing high tailed, literally, like you wouldn't believe.

Next day...deer was back....next day...deer was back. But further away from my lot line each time,lol. That observation makes me assume it was the same deer.

Here is the main corner I fenced in. Yes the deer could jump over or even walk up to the front yard but I don't see one trying to jump the fence into a group of bushes nor walking up by the street along with houses, cars etc. I'm just trying it for the first time this year. Its $20 per 50' includes the post caps and sleeves. You can use as many or as few posts as you like as the fencing has pockets every 6" or so. I can get by with this as I only have a 1/2 acre.

{{gwi:359692}}

I agree, for properties in excess of 1 acre you really need a "Farm Dog" or 2. These are dogs that live almost exclusively outdoors and are bred to keep predators at bay. My uncle has 45 acres and was losing his chickens all the time to racoons, foxes, and coyotes. He got a pair of German Shepard's and that was the end of the problem. Dogs are extraordinarily efficient at keeping wild animals away. It's more of their scent all over the property, more than then chasing the animals.

Here in Germany we have too many deers in each area. Here, there's no chance for young trees in garden or wood without a fence. So I cannot plant dwarf ones, I must take a fence round each plant till a size of 1 metre. When the plants are old enough and several metres high, I take the fence away. But it's ugly and costs time and money. I have a dog too and she killed 2 deers. But it's difficult, the deers run away, the dog behind and when they leave the garden there can be an accident.

Wolfgang

Interesting discussion and very timely as I recently noted this occurance to my little abies. First it was a small branch bent and broken and a few days later it looked like this! I'm counting it a 'goner' and thankfully the rest of the trees look unmolested. I've never before experienced deer damage in my gardens other than chewed up hydrangeas.

These things are so damn annoying.
As others have said, they seem to love nootkas. This year, however, with mine wrapped in hex-mesh galvinized fencing, it seems to have avoided it. Knock on wood. It's not even staked down, if the things had even the intelligence of a parrot or dog, they could easily pull it off. Fortunately they don't. It just seems like the wire doesn't feel right...so they move on. In this case to knock down a Magnolia 'Vulcan'! But it was recently planted and seems no worse for wear, in fact the stupid deer might have done me a favor because it was probably planted a little too low.

I have some circumstantial evidence that they *really* don't like fishing line.

I surprised the other day a deer in my property (it must have come in from the driveway). I ran toward it with my dog. Before I had the fishing line the deer would just bolt towards the closet edge of the property. This time it was completely different. It literally jumped from one side to the other trying to figure out where to go (as if it knew there was fishing line along its usual routes). At the end, it panicked and it bolted towards the highway!. I could hear the loud snap of the fishing line.

I have not seen a deer on the property since, but it is also a slow year (apparently deer population in my town oscillates every two years since they only let hunter hunt in one half of the city each year which just means that all deer move to the other half)

In any case I have also added protections to all my new plants and soap bars on each tree of my windbreak.
Eventually, when I save enough money I am going to put a real fence so that I can actually stop worrying and enjoy my garden

If you make a fence round your garden, make it 2 metres high.Then you can be sure and you have no deer inside.

Wolfgang

Those commenting about dogs -- they deter deer if they're out at nite. But the usual situation of the dog tied up or inside at nite will be recognized by savvy deer and they know to come around at 3 am when it's safe. Seen it before.

....or, as in my case, my land is 60 miles away from my home. I love dogs but they isn't gonna be my answer!

+oM

Well that 7' x 100' netting for $20 at The Home Depot was a joke... but I wasn't expecting to much for $20. It was basically just regular sewing thread in a triangle pattern. Not sure how someone would even go about installing something like that (especially as a fence) without it tangling up. It's intended to be installed as a fence, not for what I'm using it as. But if installed as a fence, I don't see how a dear wouldn't just walk right through it.

Instead of got what's in the link below, actual heavy duty plastic fencing 4' x 25' for $10. So for 100' it was $40... so double the price. But it's thick enough that it'll actually stand up by itself. It took about 3 hours to get everything wrapped... I only wrapped all the new plantings (no matter the height) and everything else that's at least 2' tall.

The Green Giants wrapped flawlessly... just because they are so thick. The smaller spruces/pines went ok, but not nearly as quick. Most of my spruces for example, they may be 2-3' tall, but they may only have 5-10 branches. You can't wrap the plastic as tight as I did the green giants. That leaves a lot of play and a lot of wiggle room. Just to be safe, I ended up staking down all the spruces & pines. Luckily I have some 500+ stainless plant tags that I borrowed to use as stakes over the winter.

The day after... right now... we have tornado warnings issued and very strong winds... we will see how many of these are now left standing in the morning. If this passes natures test... I'll be sure to post a few photos of the finished product incase others are looking for a cheaper alternative to the heavy duty metal fencing that some of you use around your plants.

I have a ton of conifers and spend about $40 every couple months for deer spray during the fall/winter. So this plastic fencing, if it works, is a much cheaper option. It could also kill two birds with one stone. The deer spray only protects against eating.... whereas the fence could protect against both eating and rubbing.

Here is a link that might be useful: Plastic Fence

I told you my little kid could rip that like paper, lol.

The stuff you're showing at the link looks to priced nicely for how long it may last.

I just had my first buck rubbing here... On a Pinus glabra that was along my driveway. I plan to just shoot any deer I see.

After this discussion, a frackin' deer got my poor little concolor fir again. The repeated injuries are so bad it might not survive. AARRRGGGGGG...

first buck rub here as well. A small one on a small picea omorika, despite the soap bar.

The fishing line fence has not been disturbed which makes me think that the deer managed to find the one tiny opening I have in it (that I forgot to close).

when does buck rub season ends?

Some soaps have ingredients that actually attract deer. Also if you happen to use the right soap they will still feed and rub on plants within feet of the soap. Its mainly a myth as a effective means to detract from my perspective.