Soil questions

11 years ago

So... I'm not sure if I've been blessed or cursed. For those who read my "Newbie panic" thread, I was lamenting that I had clay for soil and was concerned about drainage. After planning out a nice bed in one of my (very) few sunny spots, I took my trusty maddox out to dig a 1' hole to fill with water as Fotis had recommended, and about 6" down, ran into crushed blue stone "dust" (REALLY fine crushed blue stone - basically looks like blue dirt). After swearing heartily, I tried digging a few more holes in the vicinity. Seems like I'll hit blue stone dust eventually, but the depths vary from ~5" to a foot or more before hitting it. What I had planned to plant in this bed were the following (to give you an idea of the size of the plants):

Pinus leucodermis 'Compact Gem'

Pinus cembra 'Blue Mound'

Picea sitchenis 'Papoose'

Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Kerdalo'

Cedrus deodora 'Feelin Blue'

so none are overly large at maturity (like some of the other monsters I had ordered and Dave had kindly pointed out weren't "dwarfs" - doh!), and right now they're all babies (1 to 3 yrs old)... The spot is in front of my house starting about 15' away and going out for about 10-15' past that (the bed is going to be longer than it is wide), so I'm thinking the blue stone was laid down during house construction.

So at any rate - good news - shouldn't have to worry about drainage here! (cheesy grin) Bad news/worrisome question - is that even CLOSE to being deep enough to even consider planting there? What if I planted "high" like a bunch of you recommended? Or would the roots never be able to go deep enough? FWIW, my property is situated on the side of a mountain (basically) and is pretty much surrounded by tall deciduous trees so high winds aren't really a problem (at least nothing like being out in the open plains of Iowa)... :) Unfortunately, said tall deciduous trees limit the number of "full sun" spots I have!! So I'm a bit partial to trying to keep this spot as an option...

Other idea I had if you all thought it was just too shallow "as is" or even with planting high and doing mounds, was what about, since they're all young plants, just heeling them in here over winter and then trying to build a raised bed? Would that work? How high would that need to be though? Obviously I'm hoping the "planting high and having several mounds" plan will work, but let me know if I'm insane/digging graves instead of nice, plant-loving holes?

Thanks!!!

Mary

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Comments (6)

tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
11 years ago
So how deep into this layer of crushed blue stone did you dig to see how deep it goes?

tj
brownthumbs789
Original Author
11 years ago
Yeeeeah. Thought that question might come up... In the most shallow grav... I mean hole (blue stone appearing at probably less than the 5" level), I dug through about 10"-12" of it and then hit something rather solid. wuh wuh wuuuuuhhh. Tried breaking through it and got a few larger rocks to come out so not sure if it was a compacted base layer that was laid down during construction or I was maybe hitting the mountain in that spot so I decided that hole was going to be filled back in and the home of a stone gargoyle instead of 'Papoose' if all else failed (or a very "elevated Papoose"). ;) There were a couple holes that were even closer to the house than that one though where I wasn't even hitting the blue stone until ~10-12" down, so I'll pick at those first thing tomorrow and see what comes up.

Thanks for the response!
Mary
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
11 years ago
this is how a tree lays down roots .. this is a maple.. but a tree is a tree ... most roots are within the first 12 inches of the soil ...

{{gwi:234645}}

{{gwi:208954}}

theoretically.. depth is irrelevant... if drainage is OK ... a tree will put its roots where it needs to ... given that you dont rot the roots off first ... depth would be nice.. for its ability to store water for summer.. etc ... but if you plant shallow.. then it becomes your burden to not let them dry for the first few years ... and that can be aided by PROPER MULCH ... [same in winter as such is a desert in many areas.. with water being tied up in a non-usable state.. especially in colder climes [who knows since your z6 is borderline cold]]

i dont recall if the link has been provided previously ... but study and memorize it ALL ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link
brownthumbs789
Original Author
11 years ago
Holy cow! So who's the poor soul who got buried in the root ball? ;) Heh heh (sorry - couldn't resist). Seriously though - that's an eye-opener. Didn't realize there were so few "deep roots" on a mature tree. As always, many thanks for all the useful info and the link was GREAT! Very helpful. So... this might be a dumb question but you still water even if it's quite cold, as long as the GROUND hasn't frozen then, right? With these tiny guys, do you still base it on the "2-3 inches down" test?

So, I went and attacked a couple of those holes and ended up pulling out a nice, happy mound of... larger rocks, after going through the crushed blue stone layer. Sigh. And actually, they were pretty compacted/tight in there... wasn't the easiest thing to do to break them loose... Now underneath said larger rock layer, I finally started getting back into my clay-like soil, but am I correct in guessing these REALLY might not be the ideal holes to plant plants? Or, Ken, does it really not matter as long as I keep them watered? What about "food"? Would they get the nutrients they need with so little "soil" though?
gardener365
11 years ago
dynamite your new bed......... j/k.

Just begin planting. If a rock is in the way, get it out. All in all, it's really that simple. And sure..... berm your plantings. (there are trees growing fine all around you =)

Dax
brownthumbs789
Original Author
11 years ago
HA! Verrrry tempting... Ok - rock moved, Dax! Seriously. THIS is what I get to work with. Sigh. Got several plants planted today at least! I know - you all are saying, "FINALLY!!" Haha! Now on to nurse my broken back... ;)