The two most unusual conifers I have are a small variegated Thujopsis dolobrata(planted January 2002) and Pinus bungeana(planted November 1998). The pine has done very well, in fact it is the subject of the "Growth rate of pinus bungeana" post here. The Thujopsis has been slow, but still doing pretty well. I work at a nursery that has two green Thujopsis planted and they look better than mine and have been in the ground less time. I'd suggest you talk with someone who is a semi-regular poster on the forums who lives in Anniston, Alabama. He grows all kinds of very unusual plants including conifers. He told me one time he was growing Calocedrus macrolepis. You might also look into C. decurrens. Email me privately and I'll give you his email address.

Almost anything from medium/low altitudes in central China should be worth trying. Some others to look for (if you can get them, not easy!) are Cathaya argyrophylla, Nothotsuga longibracteata, Keteleeria davidiana, Abies recurvata, Abies chensiensis.

A common one that's not been mentioned yet and will also do well is Cryptomeria japonica.

From the Mediterranean region, look for Abies cilicica, A. cephalonica and A. nordmanniana.

Resin

If you can find Nothotsuga longibracteata, please tell me.

I really want to try this one!!!

Thanks!!

I see Cryptomeria all over the place. The most common is the straight species. A large commercial shopping development, built three years ago, planted large specimens of the straight species all along roadways and parking lots. They all look great. I have two of the smaller cultivars, 'Tansu'(planted Feb. 2004) and 'Gyokuryu'(planted Nov. 2003). They were close to the same size at planting but now Gyokuryu is more than twice as tall! I am finding sports of normal sized growth on Tansu, which I immediately remove. You may have already taken the Cyrptomeria plunge because it is a pretty good plant.

Abies recurva, cilicica, cephalonica, & nordmanniana are all sold at Forestfarm:
Abies 4 Sale

Cryptomeria and cultivars are as well sold there:
Cryptomeria's

Dax

I've had about the same experience with growth rate for Gyokuryu.

If you haven't seen it before check out the UAH Grounds Management website. It lists what they grow, rates performance and has photos for some of them.

I have a shot of my two taken on October 8 for the purposes of showing differences in size. I have been wondering if Gyokuryu will get as large as Black Dragon. The nursery where I work has a BD at least 12', maybe 15'. Until seeing it I had no idea that cultivar got so large!

{{gwi:852147}}

I am also growing one Cryptomeria but I'm worried about it becoming like Leyland Cypress because I have already started to see them being planted in hedges in my area. I have researched Taiwania, Nothotsuga, Keteleeria, and Cathaya but they are all very difficult to find and I am much more interested in Abies and Picea species anyway. Does anyone know if Abies Cilica, A. Numidica, A. Pinsapo, A. Cephalonica or any of the other Mediterranean firs can grow here. Also does anyone know about Picea Morrisonnicola, the spruce trees from Central China or the spuce trees from Mexico and their heat tolerance?

You need to get all your Abies cultivars grafted onto firma . This is by far the best for the south . JC Raulston proved that years ago . You can try , every place is different . I prefer for things to live . It is frustrating to spend money and have something die from warm soil temps . You have to pay to play though .
Cupressus is common , but lots of fun cultivars . Picea orientalis , omorika both do well down there . Jaws in Conyers has a wonderful selection . The display garden there illustrates what will and what won't . Go visit ABG or the GA state BG . Mcmahan's in Cleremont , they are the coolest ( young'uns ) . You have a wealth of knowledgable people surrounding you . FYI for whoever , there is a four foot Cathaya just north of Atlanta .

Back to Abies straight species . Forrest , all that you mentioned will do fine . Also nordmaniana and homolepis do well for us . There are some big homolepis in Winchester , TN . The hybrids - bornmuelleriana and equi-trojani are cool . Equi-tojani is growing here and north of Knoxville . Also veitchii - does better in the ground . I have a religiosa , but it is on firma . Probably would do fine as well . Yea for Athrotaxus and Calocedrus .

"Also does anyone know about Picea morrisonnicola"

Only zone 8b/9 hardy.

"the spruce trees from Central China"

Picea asperata and P. wilsonii certainly well worth trying.

"or the spuce trees from Mexico and their heat tolerance?"

P. chihuahuana and P. martinezii are heat tolerant, but are marginal in zone 7 winters (I've seen P. chihuahuana very badly cut back in zone 7). P. engelmannii subsp. mexicana is hardier, but also less heat tolerant (very high altitude origin). Abies vejarii and A. durangensis are worth trying but may also be only marginally cold hardy in 7.

Resin

At the National Arboretum in Washington, D.C. (which can be very hot and dry) the finest looking fir right now is A. numidica. I would definately try that if you can find it. I have not been successful.

--Spruce

Others to consider for Atlanta:

any Taxodium (Bald Cypress, Pond Cypress, Montezuma Cypress)
Taiwania cryptomeroides
Fokienia
Sequoia sempervirens (Coastal redwood -- it really likes our climate; Giant Sequoia, by contrast, struggles here)
Glyptostrobus
Araucaria angustofolia
Deodar cedar
Florida Torreya

Dear Smalljaw,

Where is the Cathaya specimen north of Atlanta?

One of the things that has always annoyed me about living in Atlanta is not being able to grow beautiful Japanese and English yew topiaries and hedges like in the formal gardens across Europe. Do any of you have any information or sources for some of the rare Taxus species that would be worth trying here, such as Taxus Sumatrana, T. Globosa, T. Floridana, T. Chinensis, and T. Wallichiana. Can they survive the cold and heat of zone 7?

For what it's worth - here's a link to the Conifer database of Cox Arboretum - a private estate - located north of Atlanta in Canton.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cox Arboretum Conifer Collection

That Cathaya is not at the Cox Arboretum . The guy that has it is low key and I respect his privacy , but it is killah !

Ok, you guys - I did it (unbeknownst to DW). I ordered one gallon P. chihuahuana & A. numidica. We have a pretty good little cold front down here right now (north of Ft. Worth, TX). Should I keep them inside until spring or wait for one of our "indian summer" weeks and stick them in the ground? Lows will be in the 20's - highs in the 50's for the next week.

Being in the dog house was easier with a 100 lb lab - this chihuahua's house is killing me.

Here is a website for Thompson Mills Forest which can give you an estimate for survival rates for some conifers in our area.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://warnell.forestry.uga.edu/warnell/tmf/files/GYMNO.pdf

southwebb,
Looks like there's not much hope for my deodar if those stats hold up!! I suppose I've got'em so I'll plant'em. I bought 2 each.

Methinks those Thompson Mills Forest people could do with some instruction in after-care! Only 7 surviving Ginkgos out of 120!! Those are appallingly bad survival rates, given that several of them are species that ought to do well there (Ginkgo certainly should!). Maybe they have very bad deer, or plant theft, problems. Or an abnormal drought.

In forestry plantations (where they shove trees in by the million, as cheaply as possible), 90% survival is the normal target.

Resin

Forestry plantations in Georgia, especially pine, usually consist of a man using an axe blade to make a hole, sticking a tree (12 inches or smaller) in it and then filling the dirt back in the hole. I agree with you Resin, these survival rates are bad. However, these trees probably didn't have much of a chance to begin with. There was probably no after-care provided.

I generally have to pamper my trees for two to three years to ensure their survival, and this sometimes does not work. I thought that this might be a good guide to see what will grow and what probably will not. For example, a 0% survival rate from Thompson Mills will most likely not survive here.

I live in Alpharetta, just north of Atlanta. I used to live in California, where almost everything grew well, and I have been trying a lot of plants here since I moved here four and a half years ago. I have some conclusions, but they are based only on the weather extremes we've seen since 2002.

I have had some success with several of the Crytpomeria cultivars-sinensis and sekkan sugi do well. The sinensis grow more rapidly than the conical yoshinos you see everywhere and are more open. They are very healthy=my main long-term concern about them is how they will handle ice storms as they age.

The sekkan sugis, which have golden new growth when the temperatures aren't too hot, were very unusual until a few years ago. You can now find them in some local nurseries and they are easy to find on-line. These are really spectacular trees in coastal California where the temperatures don't get as hot as they do here. In Atlanta, they are beautiful in the spring and fall when the new growth is its most attractive.

I have a Taiwania flousiana that has done well, and this is a very attractive small tree, but have had poor growth rates with Taiwania cryptomeriodes in the Atlanta area. The flousianas are very hard to find, although Forestfarm is offering them now, and I just planted a second tree.

Several of the less common Cuppressus, such as darjeelingsensis, can do well, but can be very susceptable to leaf miner attack-this seems to vary considerably with the individual tree. I have five or six of these in the yard. and they are very attractive when the leaf miners are under control.

I have a couple of Chamaecyparis (or Cuppressus) funebris, which have done well. They don't seem to be as prone to leaf miner attack as some of the darjeelingsensis.

Thuja plicata does very well, as does Green Giant, the hybrid. The plicatas don't grow as rapidly as some other trees, but are a wonderful shade of bright green in the summer. Green giants are easy to find in local nurseries.

Cuppressocyparis ovensii grows very vigorously, and I like the blue-green color and form a lot more than leylandii. I don't understand why this tree is not planted everywhere in the Atlanta area, as it appears to grow faster and is more attractive than leylandii. They are available from several on-line sources.

Cunninghamia lanceolata is very nice, but takes a long time to develop a leader unless you can purchase it in a large size. So, if you can't find five gallon plants, it takes patience to grow. Cunninghamia konishii and unicaniculata also grow ok, but don't harden off well in the fall, and almost always suffer frost damage at the branch tips. They don't start to look good until the middle of summer, as a result, and their growth rates tend to be less than for lanceolata. I would recommend lanceolata if you can get five gallon plants, but would advise you to stay away from konishii and unicaniculata in the Atlanta area.

I have had some success with Sequoia sempervirens, but for me, this has varied with the cultivar-I have the most experience with Los Altos, which seems to tolerate wet clay soild better than some cultivars, but does experience some frost damage. Also have three other cultivars that seem to be growing, but with only a year or two of experience for each. I did not have success with Aptos Blue, Simpson's silver and one or two other popular cultivars. I am enjoying the attempt to establish a number of sequoias here, but think this is a risky plant and wouldn't recommend it to others for our area.

Have been unable to get any cultivar of Giant Sequoia (Sequoiadendron)to survive more than two summers. I have a small glauca that has lasted two summers, but does not look like it will make it through a third.

I have a few Chamaecyparis thyoides cultivars-Henrae and emily-that do very well, although they are smaller trees.

I have a couple of Pinus patula that have done well, although they take a while to get established and can usually be found only in very small sizes.

The deodor cedars do well for me, but it seems they take a couple of years to get going, and, of course, they are very common in the area.

Pinus strobus will do ok, but there are probably better choices available. The Spruce pines growing at the Atlanta Botanical garden are fantastic, but I haven't planted any.

I haven't had any success with Pseudotsuga Meziezii and have given up on this, although I recall reading that there is at least one large healthy one in the Atlanta area. I am trying out sinensis now. I think Wilsonii might also be good for our area, based on what I have read, but I haven't tried it.

I have a couple of Glyptostrobus pensilis that are healthy, but their growth rates are slower than for Taxodium. This is an interesting deciduous conifer that tolerates wet clay soil here, and it seems to be more cold hardy than many of the references state, but I don't find it as attractive as a number of the other trees that will grow in our area.

The US Taxodiums do great here. I think the Pond Cypresses that are grafted to the distichum root stock grow very vigorously and are extremely attractive.

The native Tsugas grow well in the area, but may not be a good choice due to alien pests that are killing many of these trees in the US. The Chinese Tsugas might be interesting to try, as I understand they are resistant.

I have not done much with the Abies and Picea, except for one Abies firma, which is small, but seems to be healthy.

Of course the Dawn Redwoods are fantastic trees for the Atlanta area, but are pretty common nowadays.

Wollemi pines are supposed to have a chance here and are just now becoming available from the National Geographic Society. I have a couple that I just recently received. No eperience yet with these, however.

Hi Alpharetta

A few nomenclatural points . . .

Taiwania flousiana - doubtfully distinct from T. cryptomerioides

"Cupressus darjeelingensis" = Cupressus cashmeriana

Cunninghamia unicaniculata = Cunninghamia lanceolata

"Chamaecyparis thyoides cultivars-Henrae" - this is a distinct subspecies Chamaecyparis thyoides subsp. henryae, not just a cultivar

Resin

Nothing wrong with the firs listed to grow there. Seems like a wide range of conifers will do well.

I have some pictureds but may post them at a later time:
Picea wilsonii
Taiwania flousiana ect -

I'm somewhat surprised both Thuja occidentalis and Platycladus orientalis haven't been mentioned.

Dax

I'd also think that Chamaecyparis (Callitropsis) obtusa on the roots of Thuja occidentalis (grafts)... 'too', would do excellent there.

Dax

Picea wilsonii at The US National Arboretum (zone 7b/8a) -
and like mentioned earlier above, temps get hot and dry). I also looked at their soil structure and it was compridrf of a one foot layer of real lightweight and light gray in color 'dusty stuff', followed by hardpan of reddish-orange clay below.

Picea wilsonii

Here are a few other conifers from this place:
Pinus armandi

Pinus henryi

Pinus shwangshanensis
{{gwi:614578}}

Taiwania cryptomerioides

Foliage: Taiwania cryptomerioides

Taiwania flousiana - (not very heat tolerant - I had to remove many branches from it prior to taking my photos - no irrigation either whereas the T.cryptomeriodes was planted on a hillside about midway down and in a dense forest setting)

Taiwania flousiana foliage:

Thujopsis dolobrata

Torreya nucifera

Abies nephrolepsis

nephrolepsis foliage:

Chamaecyparis (Callitropsis) funebris

Chamaecyparis funebris (foliage):

Cunninghamia lanceolata 'Glauca' - (This is one spiny fella):

Glyptostrobus lineatus (possibly a synonym)
{{gwi:670724}}

Abies firma - a magnificent specimen:

Picea koyamae
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Picea smithiana
{{gwi:630321}}

Dax

Wow! Gorgeous pics Dax!

Do you think the Picea wilsonii would grow in zone 5/6?

"Do you think the Picea wilsonii would grow in zone 5/6?"

Fine in zone 6; not so sure about zone 5, but it might be OK there

Resin

Beutiful photos from Conifers. Also, you are right-Thuja occidentalis is grown throughout the Atlanta area.

wrt comments from Pineresin.Thank you for the corrections in nomenclature. Would like to add a few comments:

1. Taiwania flousiana vs. cryptomeriodes-I have read that flousiana grows a leader very easily and has a less blue green color, and this is the same behavior I have seen in the specimens I have grown.

Can't comment on whether flousiana is actually a distinct species.

2. darjeelingsensis vs. cashmeriana vs. pseudohimlaicia-I have acquired several Cuppressus "darjeelingsensis" and a couple of "psuedohimalaica" from a US supplier (these are the names used by the supplier). The supplier calls the seed-grown trees darjeelingsensis and trees grown from cuttings, pseudohimalaica, and the pseudohimalaica have the weeping bluish branchlets that I have seen on trees called cashmeriana in botanic gardens in the US. The two pseudohimalaica I have, have only survived one mild winter here, so I don't know if they are viable in Atlanta, but they will be a wonderful addition to the local landscape if they are hardy here. (The Atlanta Botanic Garden grows their "cashmeriana" indoors in pots). The ABG "cashmeriana" and the "cashmeriana" grown at the Huntington Botanical Garden in Pasadena have the same appearance as the pseudohimalaica).

3. I have seen that Cunninghamia "unicaniculata" listed as lanceolota in almost all references as you indicate. Some suppliers in the US distinguish between them, perhaps because of the appearance, which is quite distinct, and climate preferences. In terms of climate preferences, the unicaniculata sold commercially in the US have behaved more like konishi than lanceolata for me. I understand that there is also controversy as to whether konishi shoud be a separate species (from lanceolata).
4. Chamaecyparis thyoides var. Henryae-quite right.

Can anyone tell me what the growth rates are on some of these plants such as which of the heat tolerant firs and spruces are fastest growing, and also the others mentioned like the Taiwania, Tsugas and the 3 pines in the pictures above.

Abies firma:
Abies nephrolepsis:
Taiwania cryptomerioides
Taiwania flousiana
Tsuga chinensis probably >1' per year
Tsuga sieboldii looks to be fast growing >1' per year
Pines - take a look at the elongated candles (looks like over a foot a year)

Here are some sites that might help:
http://www.hort.uconn.edu:591/search.html
google
American Conifer Society
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/1plants.htm#Abies
wikipedia

Dax

3 to 8+ years on these in the open with few problems, NC humid zone 8a, sandy soil:

Cryptomeria japonica

Cupressus macrocarpa
Cupressus glabra
Cupressus arizonica
Cupressus macrocarpa x nootkatensis
Cupressus arizonica x macrocarpa

Taxodium distichum
Taxodium ascendens

Juniperus virginiana
Juniperus silicicola
Juniperus scopulorum
Juniperus chinensis
Juniper communis

Pinus palustris
Pinus taeda
Pinus glabra
Pinus elliottii
Pinus palustris x taeda
Pinus rigida x taeda
Pinus rigida
Pinus virginiana
Pinus thunbergiana (beware of PWN)
Pinus pinaster
Pinus nigra
Pinus heldreichii var. leucodermis
Pinus strobiformis

Some others doing ok in a slightly sheltered area:

Taxus baccata
Taxus cuspidata
T. bacata cuspidata
(Taxus x media)

Amentotaxus argotaenia

Podocarpus macrophyllus

Cephalotaxus harringtonia
Cephalotaxus fortunei

Araucaria bidwillii
Araucaria heterophylla (moved inside in cold spells)

Callitris oblonga
Callitris rhomboidea

Chamaecyparis obtusa
Chamaecyparis thyoides

Also have 2+ years outside on some small Taiwania, so far so good, but these have been mild winters.

No luck with any Tsuga or Picea, as our wind and salt mist are killers.
Cunninghamia lanceolata is still alive, but browns pretty bad.
Cedrus deodora has had some salt burn, but comes back, same for some of the pines.
Cryptomeria go bronze in winter, but look great by April... stronger trees than most people think IME.

One correction - sort of - yes the Cryptomerias at the National Arboretum look stressed, I'm not sure why. There are many cryptomeria in the DC area that are doing fine.

What are some southern hemisphere conifers that would be worth a try? Such as Afrocarpus, Agathis, Athrotaxis, Callitris, Dacrycarpus, Dacrydium, Fitzroya, Nageia, Podocarpus, Retrophyllum, etc. Which of these are heat tolerant and relatively hardy, like 8a or 8b. I'm willing to take a risk on hardiness for some of these.

Fairweather was selling an Austrocedrus they claimed was discovered on Cape Cod. (zn 7, sometimes milder in winter than areas much further south)
You might ask them about it. Some NZ podocarps are hardy but they look boring to me, like yews that turn orange in winter.
The strain of Asian podocarp known as "Podocarpus chinesis" is hardy to 0F and very exotic looking.
If I could grow any Southern Hemisphere conifer it would be Podocarpus henkelii. It is zn 9. The Enid Haupt Garden in DC had a 2 story tall boxed specimen they used to set out in the summer. It was amazing.

Perhaps I`m a simple idiot or just overly optimistic but here in zone 5/6 I`ve got cedrus deodara Shalimar and Karl Fuchs. Arnold Arboretum sent me a letter a few years back stating that they were as hardy as Stenocoma. I guess only time will tell!

I'd hate to see this thread go off the edge...

Great thread from nearly 10 years ago.

I wonder how many of these would grow in South Texas.