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firefightergardener

Four years of Pinus heldreichii 'Smidtii'

Considerably naming discussion has come up with the true name. Here I can show four years of growth, which like many dwarf conifers, is hard to actually see. This plant was purchased in 2008 from Coenosium Gardens, and really hasn't changed in size much at all. It's growing perhaps two inches a year(4-5cm), and shows nice, lush, deep green foliage, year-round.

NOTE: It should be mentioned that some computers can discern the hook over the 'S', ala '�midtii'

Mine does not, so I've chosen NOT to include it in the thread title.
2010


2011

2012

2013 - It now has a new, less aggressive neighbor than the large Picea abies dwarf that flanks it's left in the above photos.

I've included the discussion thread below, for further reference.

Here is a link that might be useful: Discussion

Comments (15)

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    Hi Will, that doesn't look like a 'Smidtii' to me, it looks more like a 'Green Bun' or a 'Compact Gem'.
    These are much faster growing, making a leader and they have a more open structure...

    This is how a 'Smidtii' looks like:

    This post was edited by coniferjoy on Sat, Dec 7, 13 at 8:35

  • outback63 Dennison
    10 years ago

    Yep...I agree with Edwin, The difference between the two jumps right out at you.

    "NOTE: It should be mentioned that some computers can discern the hook over the 'S', ala '�midtii'".

    I only have that when I copy & paste from another source. Then go back to preview and delete � and then Type in your S over the deleted �. Correction made 'Smidtii'

    Dave

    'Smidtii' from my garden 12-7-13
    {{gwi:854664}}

  • liopleurodon
    10 years ago

    This is my Pinus heldreichii 'Smidtii' a few months ago:

    I agree that it looks quite a bit different.

    This post was edited by liopleurodon on Sat, Dec 7, 13 at 8:04

  • whaas_5a
    10 years ago

    Note to also jump on the band wagon but I thought the same thing as I was scrolling the pics.

    Mine looks just like Dave's. Same as Edwin's as well but darker green like Dave's plant. Its -2 out there right now so no pic, lol.

    Eitherway hanks for sharing the pics!

  • mesterhazypinetum
    10 years ago

    Will,
    this plant was found in 1926 by Eugene Smidt of Cesko in Bosnia. Absolutely simple Smidt. No Schmidtii, no Smidtii, just only Smidt.

    This photo I made at Josef Halda's garden in 2011, who is a famous czech botanist. The plant is 55 years old (that time). Irrigated exemplars may grow better.

    Zsolt

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    I'm sorry to say Zsolt, but the nomeclature rules for giving names after a person found before 1959 is that a double ii must be attached.
    In this case it's Smidt plus double ii makes it 'Smidtii'.

    Another example is Juniperus chinensis var. sargentii, which was named in 1892 after C.S. Sargent, the first director of the BostonâÂÂs Arnold Arboretum.

    As a nurseryman I can tell that it will make no difference if specimens of this cultivar are irrigated or not.
    They always will have a very compact form like Liops specimen is showing us...

  • firefightergardener
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I would defend my plant's name as a plant that Bob Fincham sold me and I have not seen him offer any other heldreichii cultivars in the last six+ years, including those suggested. I will propose the Pacific Northwest climate and lighting conditions, to the reason it's a little more open than the other photos here. It has received considerable shade. In Summer, this plant receives 2-3 hours of direct sun and 4-6 hours of indirect or filtered light.

    You may think it is another cultivar, but I'll disagree until Bob speaks otherwise.

    -Will

  • mesterhazypinetum
    10 years ago

    I was speaking about the man, read it again, guys.
    There was no word about plantsnames...
    But in foreign countries the breeder's name was often misspelled.

  • whaas_5a
    10 years ago

    Will, does the size of the plant look exaggerated in the photo? It appears to be close to 2.5' tall in the last photo.

    Perhaps a 1' less than the 55 year old plant shown by Zsolt

    Mine is 6 years old and the size of a large cantaloupe.

  • severnside
    10 years ago

    Here's a specimen at Ashwoods Nursery Garden Center UK, probably 20+ years old and about 3 feet high. Still has a perfect form.

  • firefightergardener
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I think this plant is about eighteen inches tall and about ten years old. Again, it's probably 4-6 inches taller because it's growing more openly to get at more sunshine. I'd be shocked it if wasn't the correct cultivar. Bob's word is near gospel here in the Pacific Northwest.

    -Will

  • coniferjoy
    10 years ago

    Dave, don't you've the same climate as Will has?
    Your specimen is showing it's true compact growing habit...

  • outback63 Dennison
    10 years ago

    Edwin,

    "Dave, don't you've the same climate as Will has"?

    No not at all for the most part but I suppose at times we could have equal alike days but not the norm.

    I am growing two of them. They both are the same. One smaller then the other.

    My plant in grown in full sun and Will's in 2-3 hours of full sun and the rest filtered shade. I think there in lies the difference. Will's has become a little leggy and open and has lost the compact growing habit stretching for the sun. Candle growth is not as robust and compact as it should be. Just my opinion as I am familiar with this cultivars growing habit when exposed to 8 hours of sun a day.

    I am not saying that Will's plant is not correct. I have never known Bob to sell a mis-named cultivar and I am not about to get into that discussion. Bob should chime in but probably won't and that's understandable.

    I think the micro-climate it is grown under are not favorable for normal growth. I would move it to full sun exposure.

    There...that is my out on the limb explanation on what I think is going on here.

    Dave

  • bobfincham
    10 years ago

    My original 'Smidtii' came from Joel Spingarn in 1976 and he obtained it from a source in the Czech Republic years earlier. The Northwest climate causes it to sometimes develop into a conical form. I have even seen this conical form in the Czech Republic. It has been referred to as an upright form of "Smidtii' in that country. I saw one at Jan Beran's place.
    I have sold this cultivar since about 1979 and I suspect that a large number of the plants found in this country can be traced back to Spingarn as the original source here.
    'Compact Gem' grows at 3x the rate of 'Smidtii' in this area. I do not even grow that one anymore.
    In the Northwest conifer growth can be exceptional. I stopped producing Picea pungens 'Hermann Naue' because several of my plants reverted to the species and do not produce cones. I haven't heard of that anywhere else so I assume that is a climatic effect.

  • Embothrium
    10 years ago

    Surely there will also be the influence of variation in seedling root-stocks used, in addition to the total combination of planting site conditions including soil properties.

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