This is a great photo. I wonder if Picea pungens 'Oldenburg' shares the same background?
Richard

Is it me, but does the growth around 5 o.'clock area in the picture look different from the rest of the plant? Cracking specimen that it is.

Thedecoguy: it must be the shaded side.

Dax

It looks the same Stephen, as both Bob's specimen(and the one included in the RHS Encyclopedia of Conifers), and the same from my own garden 'Hildburghausen'. I also find no referrence in the RHS encyclopedia to any Picea abies 'Oldenburg' - which is rare, this book has a staggering listing of conifers known to the world.

My novice conclusion is that your 'Hildburghausen' is another cultivar and 'Oldenburg' is actually the true 'Hildburghausen'.

Picea abies 'Hildburghausen' for comparison.

-Will

Hi Will, well that's the rub really, I'm very confident my 'Oldenburg' is the correct plant, because as I mentioned in the other thread I saw the exact same plant tagged 'Oldenburg' in Denis's Dodge's collection a few years ago.So it's probably fair to say that both of us haven't made the same mistake. The problem I have is with the plant tagged 'Hildburghausen' in Bob's and possibly Larry Stanley's gardens, it does look very much like my 'Oldenburg' .. ok I can't be absolutely sure my Hildburghausen' is the correct plant, because I've never seen another to compare. The RHS Encyclopedia's have only referenced many plants and sourced information from other growers and collectors, doesn't mean to say that all that info is necessarily correct. Because I'm sure we all make mistakes and get things wrong from time to time. Although it's an excellent publication it's not infallible.
Hope this all makes sense! ... to be continued :o)

Makes 100% sense, and I should have perhaps not even had a 'novice' conclusion, as THAT is FALLIBLE. :)

What does seem fairly certain is that the plant you posted above looks extremely similar to both the specimen at Coenosium Gardens(ala. RHS encyclopedia specimen), and my own, perhaps 'Oldenburg' is the correct name for the plant we grow. Hopefully you or someone else can shed more light on this.

-Will

Will, I suppose the only way to solve this conundrum is to contact Gert Bohme, not even sure he is still alive, don't think he was that well when I corresponded with him 10 years or so ago. Other likely source for info might be Jorg Kohout ? hopefully we might get to the bottom of this sooner or later :0)

Stephen's and Will's specimen are not the same cultivar.

Stephen, do you know that you're the only one in the world who has listed Picea abies 'Oldenburg'?
For this reason I don't think this cultivar name is right.
However, there's a Picea pungens 'Oldenburg' listed but that's not the one you're showing us.

Even Joerg Kohout hasn't listed it.

I guess you've to dig deeper in your personal database...
To be continued ;0)

Edwin, here is a photo of Picea abies 'Oldenburg' I took at Dennis Dodge's collection a few years ago.

And just in case you are still in any doubt Edwin ;0) .. that the plant does actually exist, here are photos taken from some of the original correspondence received from Gert Bohme back in 99 listing cutting material he was able to send at that time.

Stephen, thanks for this information.
Now it's clear that this cultivar does really excist, but how is it possible that it isn't seen in other collections or at nurseries?

It looks like it is a dying out cultivar.
Maybe it's time then to exchange some scions of it with me for the "you never know situation"... :0)

Is your's grafted or propagated as a cutting?

It's funny Edwin, I was thinking the same thing, these types of cultivars are not being propagated any more, they seem to be out of favour in recent years, but many are fabulous plants and a lot less fussy than some of the newer miniature types we seem to go mad for these days. My plant is rooted from a cutting, and yes you can have material, no problem.

Thanks Stephen for reserving me some cutting material.

The next subject to discus is Will's specimen.
In my opinion it's not the same one as Stephen's.
There are some colour differences and also Stephen's one is more compact and does have a more "stiff" habit.

Will's looks more like a Picea abies 'Pumila' to me...
{{gwi:855746}}

I have a hunch that it is the same plant, Edwin and I'd blame sun conditions. My specimen looks very much like I'd imagine Stephen's if it was in part-shade like my plant. My specimen receives about 6 hours of sun at peak Summer and only 2-3 of that direct sunlight. Like Picea pungens, it has a more 'open', less compact look and the needles lack that 'crisp' look that Stephen's plant shows.

I am guessing Stephen has about 10 hours or more direct sunlight on his plant.

Naturally, it's a mystery and the plants clearly LOOK different but I am confident it would look different with full sun, much like some of my picea pungens cultivars in shade.

-Will