to order 2-3ft bare root stock

==>>>

on some level... you are still playing instant gratification ...

one to two footers would be easier ... all around ...

native mother earth is ALWAYS better ... i am sure i linked you to the planting guide ...

clay soil is not really a problem ... properly planted ...

with bare root... TIMING IS OF THE ESSENCE ... it is not done in the heat of summer...

we would ... God and I .. perhaps the rest of the usual suspects.. lol ... prefer.. 6 to 8 weeks of getting the roots settled in.. and pumping water .. BEFORE THE HEAT OF SUMMER ... or before leaf out ..

in my frozen ground MI ... perfect timing is a few weeks after ground thaw ... but i do insure.. the stock is coming dormant ... and even better.. if from cold storage ... else i might harden them off to temps in the garage with not much water [we can discuss this later.. if need be]

pic below on transplanting a 6 foot cherry seedling ... bare root is not really a big deal ... note the date.. .compared to what i said above ...

and to be sure.. NOTHING seems to grow much at all.. the first two seasons... all the work is going on .. underground.. and you will have to trust me on that.. else you will be repeatedly digging them up to look ... lol.. and restarting the 2 years over and over ...

i like cheaper... i used to say.. i have more time than money ... and built my collection on buying tiny small stuff ...

and do understand.. that some stuff ... is bought as you note.. and then immediately potted... for sale at nurseries... so in that case.. there is no real difference ... all potting does ... is widen that TIMING issue .... as many peeps.. simply dont start thinking about gardening until may or so [in MI] .. by which time.. they already missed proper planting time by 6 weeks ... and this is where WE win ... we make it easy ....

since you are talking evergreens ... leafed out transplants ... proper watering for the 2 years.. is imperative ....

ken

ps: if you really want to learn ... take one of each.. and pot them up ... and.. keeping in mind.. there is a fall planting season ... you can break them out of the pot in fall.. AND SEE... how much root growth there was ... and get some potting experience ...

wish i had a better camera back then .... note resultant root mass to size ... i dug it out minuted prior to the pic.. off the property ....
{{gwi:325678}}

I would highly encourage you to reconsider purchasing Tsuga canadensis... It's very upsetting to care for a tree for a decade or more, only to have it destroyed by HWA... and spraying 2x annual isn't worth the effort in my opinion. Especially since you are in z6. Just order some Tsuga chinensis seeds from Sheffield's and save yourself the headache.. they have been proven to be bulletproof against the Woolly Adelgid, but same great characteristics as Eastern Hemlock, including shade tolerance.

Take a trip up to Hemlock Hill at the Arnold Arboretum and you will see some 20+ year old Chinese hemlock. That started growing them back in '94, when Hemlock Hill was almost completely destroyed by HWA. At this point, I believe it is their objective to fully replace all of the Eastern Hemlock, as they succumb to the pest.

As an amateur with a brown thumb, I'll say I have the best success rate with potted trees planted in the Fall. They give you way more flexibility as to when you plant them, have more tiny feeder roots, etc.

Disadvantages of Bare Root:
1.) You have to plant them immediately. This can be a problem if they arrive when things are picking up at work or you are traveling.
2.) Problems if You Buy From the South: Ideally bare root trees are dug up between the time when the soil thaws and the time when the trees break dormancy...that may NOT be the same month there as it is where you are. (If you buy trees grown a couple zones south of you they may be shipped when it is still to early to plant where you are. Or they may ship trees in the Fall too late to plant).
3.) Slow to Wake Up/Trees that Don't Like Refrigeration: Many commercial places store bare-root trees in a refrigerator for months to maintain dormancy and avoid the two problems above. Most trees are fine with that. There are a couple species (eg American Persimmon) that get confused and go into such a deep "sleep" they may not wake up until the end of summer, if ever. (I ran into that Problem with American Persimmon...one was alive when I got it but never woke up. Another died at the top but started putting up leaves from below the graft in August). Just google the name of the species you are thinking of buying and "sweating" to see if this is an issue for you. I don't think this one applies to conifers.

Advantages of Bare Root:
1.) Cheaper. Way cheaper.
2.) More selection. (You can economically buy all sorts of things by mail order...great if you want something obscure).
4.) Not Root Bound
3.) More Control. (Big advantage for people who know what they are doing...they can inspect the roots, prune them, tease them apart. Just creates more ways an amateur can mess things up.)

This post was edited by edlincoln on Tue, Dec 9, 14 at 21:14

Thanks everyone. A few more questions then:

Ken - Did you replant that bare root 6 foot tree in your pic? If so how's it doing now?

SC77 or Anyone else...I appreciate the suggestion to stop planting Tsuga Candensis seedlings. I went to look for Chinensis seedlings but it seems that I can only order seeds online. Where can I get seedlings? I don't want to bother with seeds.

Pretty difficult to find. I bought mine from Japanese Maples and Evergreens but they have been sold out for a year or more. You could email to see if they will be having anymore available.

The other place that has carried them in the past is Forest Farm, but again, they are sold out. It's tough to find right now, but pretty sure it will become very common in the coming years. The other option is Tsuga diversifolia. It's slower growing and hardy to z4. It has shown very good immunity to HWA, just not as good as chinensis. It's a bit easier to find though. I was able to find it at a local nursery and there are a few places that sell the strait species online. Blue River being one of them.

dug new hole ...

dug tree ..

stopped for pic ...

replanted tree ...

total time out of ground.. 5 mins ...

it is fine ... though i have no clue which one it is.. lol ...

ken

dug new hole ...

dug tree ..

stopped for pic ...

replanted tree ...

total time out of ground.. 5 mins ...

it is fine ... though i have no clue which one it is.. lol ...

ken

SC77, did some searching on the resistance of Chinese hemlock to the adelgid and found that it does seem to resist it much better. But the Chinese hemlock is very hard to find.

As a note, the adelgid around here subsided for a few yrs, but has reappeared to a lesser extent.

Yes, the asian hemlocks have certainly not caught on yet, but that's because most of the studies of them took 10+ years to conduct. During that time, there was also a consideration on importing Sasajiscymnus tsugae beetle, which likes to eat the adelgids. By the early 2000's The Arnold Arboretum concluded that the only way to replace the loss of the Eastern hemlock, was to substitute it with Chinese hemlock... And that works quite nice, because it's only hardy to z6, but north of z6 New England winters seem to get cold enough to keep the adelgids at bay. Of course, they could also leverage diversifolia for added insurance, as it is hardy to z4.

At this point, you pretty much have to grow it from seed. I will most attempt to germinate a bunch this spring from Sheffield's. This is also where Arnold Arboretum sourced their seed.

How does the Tsuga heterophylla stand up to the adelgid?
Here, they have to be under extreme stress to be susceptible to the adelgids. In fact the only time I've seen a Western Hemlock with them was one in deep shade, very close to a house, and very poor drainage, and a lot of butcher pruning. I cut it down and put it out of it's misery.
I realize the east coast has a different climate so what happens here might not translate to there.
Mike

It does very well. I believe HWA was first observed attacking western hemlock, but most were not too worried, because western hemlock responded well and sustained minimal damage from the attacks. The problem is, western hemlock cannot grow on the east coast. It was considered as an alternative or possibly a hybrid solution to the eastern hemlock, but the mortality rate was so high, most could not even complete the testing.

canadensis and caroliniana have virtually no immunity toward the best, they just get slaughtered. The really interesting thing about Chinese hemlock is that the HWA doesn't even bother with it. In all the studies I have read, there was 0 HWA on any of the Chinese hemlock.

Some interesting reading on the topic:
http://www.arboretum.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/JArboriculture-Chinese-Hemlock.pdf

http://arnoldia.arboretum.harvard.edu/pdf/articles/658.pdf

http://arnoldia.arboretum.harvard.edu/pdf/articles/2010-68-2-chinese-hemlock-tsuga-chinesis.pdf

Chinese hemlock resembles western hemlock more than any other - a similar appearance is being produced by a tree that is eastern adapted.

I have seen multiple western hemlock in this area that were coated with adelgids, looking the worse for wear. Quite a few were getting on the vigorous one in my front yard before I had it cut down, in order to regain a view (and take a different general approach to the site) it had grown up to fill - having been planted originally as a mountain hemlock by the landscape contractor many years ago.

It definitely became thinner looking after the bugs appeared.