Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
benjamin85

Picea engelmannii 'Bush's Lace'

benjamin85
12 years ago

Hy,

is Picea engelmannii 'Bush's Lace' a hybrid or a true Picea engelmannii cultivar?

Benjamin

Comments (17)

  • firefightergardener
    12 years ago

    Bob Fincham thinks it's a hybrid I think and thus the fast growth.

  • pineresin
    12 years ago

    If he thinks it's a hybrid, what does he think the other parent is?

    Resin

  • monkeytreeboy15
    12 years ago

    The other parent is likely P. pungens.
    I agree with the hybrid possibility. It shows intermediate characteristics between the two species.

    -Sam

  • firefightergardener
    12 years ago

    Future arborist/professor/nursery owner right there...

  • pineresin
    12 years ago

    Apparently, hybrids between P. engelmannii and P. pungens are extremely rare, if they exist at all:
    "the phenotypic resemblance between these species is so close that hybrids have been reported, careful studies have failed to uncover incidences of natural hybridization" - Rehfeldt 2004 (pdf file), USFS Gen. Tech. Rep. RMRS-GTR-134

    Photos I've seen of the plant, the foliage looks normal P. engelmannii to me. But I've never seen it close up. Anyone got cones on one yet, or is it still too new?

    Resin

  • basic
    12 years ago

    P. glauca?

  • monkeytreeboy15
    12 years ago

    This is the closest picture I have...

    For comparison, Picea pungens which shows the glaucous, steel-blue color of 'Bush's Lace'
    {{gwi:616484}}

    And Picea engelmannii which illustrates the needle-arrangement and texture of 'Bush's Lace'
    {{gwi:616480}}

    -Sam

  • tunilla
    12 years ago

    If I remember well,the original plant was spotted by Mr. Bush in a X-Mas tree plantation. He took some cuttings and when he returned the next day to get some more, the tree had been cut and was no longer there. If these P. engelmannii were seed-grown by the thousands, could it not have been a mutant or odd-ball in the same way as were at one time the pendulous Cedars ( libani sp and ssp and also deodara ) or the incredible Picea glauca 'Conica'(this one as a naturally sown tree) - to name just a few .
    All it takes is the right person(s) at the right time at the right place!
    It may be interesting to note that the 'Glauca' forms of P. engelmannii sold in this country also often display a pendulous habit. Check 'em out on google ! T.

  • bobfincham
    12 years ago

    Dick found the tree growing in a field of Picea pungens on a Christmas tree plantation when he was appraising trees for the IRS. He cut scions and propagated it as Picea pungens. I renamed it englemanii and a number of experts agreed. The reasons I propose it to be a hybrid are first it was originally a seedling of engleman among thousands of pungens and most importantly it grows much too fast to be simply a species of pungens or engleman. It shows conifer hybrid vigor. My oldest tree once grew 2 meters (6 feet) in one year. It consistently outgrows any pungens or engleman I have ever seen. It also has never coned.

    Just conjecture on my pert.

    Bob

  • tunilla
    12 years ago

    Thank you for the clarification, Mr Fincham.
    Just two more questions, if you don't mind :
    1. Does the choice of understock affect it's hybrid vigour and ultimate appearance (compact vs. open habit)
    2. Is it possible to propagate this plant from cuttings?
    Many thanks ! T.

  • bobfincham
    12 years ago

    Hello T.

    I have grafted it onto Picea pungens and Picea abies and have seen no difference in the resulting plants. I have also worked with scion wood from terminals on the side branches and even side shoots along side branches and have noticed no big difference after a few years. I have noticed that during some years my old tree appears to more strongly pendulous than others.

    I never tried it from cuttings. I believe it would be very difficult. Pungens has a few cultivars that will strike from cuttings with mixed results. Most won't root at all. I don't know of any englemannii that was ever rooted.

    Bob

  • coniferjoy
    12 years ago

    The original 'Bush's Lace' is still alive and is growing happily at my friend Gary Gee's garden.
    {{gwi:864941}}
    Pic was taken by Henk.

  • sprucebud
    12 years ago

    Nice tree!
    Richard

  • pineresin
    12 years ago

    If that's the original, too early yet to say for certain that it is sterile. Give it another 5 or 10 years to be sure on that.

    Resin

  • tunilla
    12 years ago

    Thanks Bob!
    Hey Edwin, I thought the original was cut as a Christmas tree ,but luckily lives on thanks to Dick Bush's taking scions in the nick of time! Intriguing stuff - somebody should start doing cartoons about the coniferworld !
    PS Edwin: I tried e-mailing but failed.Ask Henk for my e-mail,send me a message and I'll get back to you! T.

  • coniferjoy
    12 years ago

    So we've to wait for cones to see if this one is a cross or not?
    Sam's pics doesn't say anything to the species specialists?

  • syntax_chris_7a
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Bringing a thread back from the dead. Does anyone have any additional information if Bush's lace is a hybrid? @bobfincham claimed that it hasn't coned, but here is a link proving different: https://garden.org/plants/photo/266428/