I bought the same bark. The pieces were too large to use.

Looks like you basically have it. Agree with above, the nuggets won't work, but the Groundcover Bark might work well for the 111 and 511 as long as the pieces are screened to the correct sizes.

I'm a little rusty on the substitutes for 111, but I think you can use the Napa Floor Dry for the Turface, and you can also use the Perlite as a granite substitute. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with both of you. I just got home from HD and both the Ground cover and nuggets look big. On the bright side I found a rock company close by that has crushed granite, its called 1/4 under and it cost $5 a 5gallon HD bucket. Needs to be screened and washed but it looks good.

Bark is the toughest find, everything else I got. Any ideas?

Sphagnum moss is not the same as sphagnum peat moss. You want peat moss, which is fluffy. And I think people out west have used the Earthgro groundcover bark.

Ohiofem, I will look again at Earthgro after I stop at a nursery today. The Peat Moss I got is the one in the picture.
Is it OK?

Perfect. I was just going to say that the first one you linked to was only 2 gallons and likely to be a lot more expensive if you plan to make enough for more than a pot or two. Good luck!

Well, I went back to HD and got the Earthgro, different HD, and it looks quite good. Need to screen it but I think I got everything I need.

Hello Michael,

I'm coming to this thread late but it looks like you have everything you need. Ohiofem provided you with some good information.

Yes you are correct, the pine or fir bark is the toughest thing to find. Some people on this forum can drive 2 miles to their local HD or Lowe's and find what they need, while others, including myself, have to do a fair amount of detective work to find it.

Here's a tip: If you are making the 5-1-1 mix and your Earthgro bark has a significant amount of very fine material in it (1/8" to dust), then you probably will not need to use the peat. The fine material in the bark acts just like the peat. So for the 5-1-1 mix any bark that passes through a 1/2" screen is usable. Also, the amount of fine material will vary from bag to bag. Some bags of bark have almost no fine material while others of the same brand are full of fine, dusty material. So if your bag of bark is full of fine dusty material you can skip the peat. If your bag has very little fine material then add the peat.

Also, I confirmed with Al that granite can be used in place of perlite in your 5-1-1 mix if you wish to do so. Both perlite and granite act similarly in the 5-1-1 mix. I had a couple bags of granite that I wanted to use up and so it worked out perfectly. The only significant difference between granite and perlite when used this way is, of course, the weight of the soil and the container.

Hope that helps.

TYG

Thanks TGY,

I was planing on using perlite for the 5-1-1 but, can I use the smaller sizes of granite left over after I screen for the gritty mix? Also, same question about perlite.

Thank You
Michael

I assume the granite left over from screening for the gritty mix is 1/16 inch and smaller, dust like stuff. If so, I wouldn't use that in 5-1-1. I generally don't screen any ingredient for 5-1-1, but some bags of perlite have so much fine dust, that I have tried screening some of that out. Keep in mind that a large part of the purpose of both mixes is to reduce or eliminate the perched water table at the bottom of your container. That very fine dust migrates to the bottom of your pot and lodges in the airspace slowing down drainage.

Michael,

Personally I would not use the very fine granite material left over from screening in my soil mixes. It depends on the size of the screened material, but if the material was between 1/8" and dust then I would just use it for something else.

When I screen the Manna Pro poultry granite I end up with a small amount of very fine dusty material, mostly under 1/8" in size. I typically either discard that material or save it for seed starting.

I think the Gran-I-Grit brand is pre-screened but don't know for sure.

At that size (1/8" and smaller) I don't think screened perlite or granite would be a good idea in the 5-1-1 mix.

Just my opinion.

TYG

Perlite holds SIGNIFICANTLY more moisture than Granite.

Josh

Yes, perlite does and I didn't even know that until recently..lol

Thsi thread is very good...

Mike

Any tips on cleaning the roots before potting in the 5-1-1 or gritty mix? Some of the nursery plants are so root bound that I am afraid I would break a lot of roots. I have a few roses, adeniums, a palm and a few succulents and cacti that I need to repot.

I just went thru screening some of the Earthgro Groundcover Bark, kept anything between 1/8" and 1/2" There is quite a bit of sap to remove but I think the results are promising.
Pictures of the Repti-Bark and mine for reference. What do you think.

Repti-Bark unscreened
{{gwi:33130}}

Earthgro Groundcover Bark screened
{{gwi:33132}}

I would recommend that you keep the fine bark dust below 1/8 inch for moisture retention.

Only remove/screen out the fine bark dust if you are preparing bark for the Gritty Mix.

Josh

That EarthGro Groundcover Bark looks really good! Must be fir bark I assume? Looks almost exactly like the very expensive ReptiBark. Nice find.

As Josh said, your screened bark is perfect for the gritty mix. If you are making the 5-1-1 mix then you will either need to retain the bark fines or add some peat to the mix for moisture retention.

The attached photo is the bark portion of my 5-1-1 mix, before adding the perlite/granite. All I did was screen the pine bark through a 1/2" screen. All the pine bark material 1/2" and smaller, including the very fine material, was retained. Because my bark has so much fine material I do not add peat to my mix. There is a fair amount sapwood in this pine bark, and I typically remove at least some of it when making my final mixes.

TYG

Here is how I make my 5-1-1 mix:

1) on the left is called : PINE BARK MULCH.( 3/16" and smaller)

2) on the right is called : SMALL NUGGETS ( 1/4" TO 1/2", mostly)

I mix them about 50/50

Well, yesterday I used the gritty mix for the first time. I put a persian lilac seedling in the gritty mix (3-4-2) and a spider plant in 1-1-1. I am a bit scared as to how often to water since within a couple of hours the wick on the bottom was dry. I watered again and this morning dry again, so I watered again. Is this normal? The summer heat is not here yet and I am a bit worried about watering. Also the spider plant does not look too good, it is wilted quite a bit.
I plan on putting some vincas in the 5-1-1 and see how that goes. I totally understand the benefits of the gritty mix but...are the plants going to make it if I water once a day?
Also when is good time to start fertilizing the new potted plants and how much. I also plan on moving my african violet and the peace lily in the gritty (1-1-1) but they will be inside.

the_yard_guy: I could use the bark fines (after screening) instead of peat in the 5-1-1, but it looks like there is quite a bit of sap wood in it. Would that be OK?

Here is a picture of the Persian Lilac gritty mix (3-4-2) bark, turface, granite.

Please someone help and build my confidence up...:(
Michael

Here's a spider plant I've been growing in gritty mix in a clay pot for about two years. This is how it looks about two weeks after I moved it outside. It spent the last seven months indoors in moderate light. I only watered it about every 10 days inside. I removed a few babies that didn't do well, but several are still going strong. It looks better than spider plants I've grown in other mixes over winter.

Last summer I watered it about twice a week outside in bright dappled shade. If I remember correctly, I did have to water more often--maybe every other day--for the first few weeks after moving into the mix. The gritty mix does need more watering in the beginning, but once the roots begin filling out the pot, the mix and the spider's succulent-like roots seem to adjust to being watered less often. Hang in there. I think you'll be happy with the results.

Wow, that spider plant looks good...I have hope but since this is the first time using the mix I am a bit worried. Once it recovers I will be moving it back inside.

I think I was supposed to water the mix before potting but I only soaked the bark for an hour, maybe that's why it dries so quickly?

How long should I wait before I start fertilizing, will be using FP.

Thanks Ohofem

Michael

Yes. It would have been better to really soak the whole mix well before potting. The fact that you didn't, means you will need to water copiously, probably every day for a week or so. In your situation, I think I would immerse the pot in several inches of water for 30 minutes or so and then let it drain. The bark and Turface can hold a lot of water, but the bark can be a little hydrophobic in the beginning. I had the same problem the first time I used 5-1-1. I didn't really soak the mix before planting my veggies, and I had to water a lot every day for the first week or two. It freaked me out too. But now that I understand how wet the mix needs to be at the beginning, I don't have that problem any more. After years of using a peat based mix, it's hard to get used to the idea that you can't really over water these mixes. Be sure to water slowly over the full surface. Go away and then do it again 15 minutes later. 10-15 percent should flow out the drainage hole each time. If you water enough, you won't need to water as often.

On the fertilizer question: If you used a controlled release fertilizer in the mix, you can wait a few weeks before starting regular fertigating. If you didn't use a CRF, I would start weak fertilization now. In that case, use a weak solution every other day to start. Later you can use full strength less often.

Thank You Ohiofem,

I have faith and will start with 1/4 strength fertilizer and go up from there.

I just got all the mix I had left and soaked it and put it in an empty pot to see how long before it gets dry. It is already looking better...:)

Sorry for butting in. After reading numerous posts about 5-1-1 and trying it out practically I wanted to know if there was any substitute for the peat moss in the mix?

I notice the flies are somewhat attracted to the mix - both houseflies and fungus gnats. I know I'm getting the 5-1-1 right cause I've potted 2 plants in a mix that was pine bark, vermiculite and peat moss and it didn't have such problems. And I also noticed that this is happening to the plant that is outdoors. My gut feeling is the peat moss.

Which brings me to my next question. Is the peat moss in the 5-1-1 solely for water retention? If so can't we use a inorganic material which is porous to do the job? Perlite actually holds quite a fair bit of water. Is there no way of just making it a pine bark and perlite mixture?

Thanks

Ohiofem,

Wow, that spider plants look amazing! Your plants sure enjoy that 5-1-1 mix. Nice work and thanks for sharing.

TYG

Yard Guy: For the record, the spider plant is in classic gritty mix -- 1 part each pine bark, granite and Turface. And fed with Foliagepro.

Rickster: Many people substitute other things for the peat. If your pine bark has a lot of fines, you can leave the peat out completely and make a 6-1 mix. I use compost in place of peat in my large fabric containers for summer vegetables, but wouldn't do that for house plants or plants growing in smaller containers because of drainage problems. I sometimes use a good quality store bought potting mix like MetroMix 510 in place of peat.

But I wonder if peat is really your problem. I bought some overly composted bark from a hardware store that had fungus gnat larva in the bag. I just doused it with Bt in the form of mosquito bits in water. They never came back. I assume that would kill maggots too. The flies are attracted to rotting organic matter, but if you allow the surface of your mix to dry out between waterings, they usually aren't a problem.

Peat does have some good qualities besides water retention. Peat moss is thought to help the soil hold nutrients by increasing what is called the CEC or "cation exchange capacity."

Ohio is right....you can leave out the peat moss entirely, or you can substitute with a peat-based ingredient - such as a high quality potting mix. You could also use a good compost. I have used Turface, Pumice, Scoria for moisture retention, too. In all my years of using 5-1-1, I've never actually made a batch with straight peat moss.

You mentioned "vermiculite." Was that merely a typo? There should be none of that in the 5-1-1.

Josh

Ohio and Greenman,

My pine bark done not have much fines and the pine bark size is about half an inch. In fact my last repot I sieved out the fines from the pine bark just to experiment. I might have to do that mosquito dunk. I didn't see any fungus gnat larvae in the pine bark when I was mixing the potting mix. I only saw some wood mites? They didn't seem to harm the plant and I've been reading about it on Garden Web too.

Lately I've been watering it with the water from my pond. I think I'll stop that and see it the fungus gnats go away. I suspect that there is some organic matter that is added from the water. I've also been watering when my wooden dowel is dry.

Yes I mentioned vermiculite. My first mix of 5-1-1 was a bark, vermiculite and peat moss. I understand that vermiculite breaks down quickly but had no access to perlite at that time. That particular potted tree is thriving in that soil actually. A quick google search on the cation exchange capacity of vermiculite and peat moss resulted in a very similar level. Think that vermiculite could be a substitute for the peat moss?

Has anyone had any experience growing in LECA?

Thanks

LECA is a great product for growing orchids and other plants in a more hydroponic or semi-hydroponic situation...

I have never used it in any of Al's mixes, so that is an unknown to me. I do want to try it, though, for a couple of my orchids.

Rickster: As Ohiofem and Josh mentioned you can do some substitutions when making 5-1-1 mixes. Some of the customization depends on what type of plants you are growing, how much (or how little) moisture they need, and what ingredients are available to you locally.

When I make my 5-1-1 mixes I typically skip the peat entirely since my pine bark already has a lot of fines in it. The fines primarily retain moisture, so if your pine or fir bark already has a lot of fine material then skip the peat. You indicated your bark is mostly larger pieces, around 1/2", without much fine material in it, so I would say you should probably add at least some peat to your soil mix. I have not used vermiculite since it breaks down so quickly so I cannot offer suggestions on that.

As mentioned in other posts, my most recent batches of 5-1-1 are actually pine bark and granite only, with lime and Osmocote Plus CRF added. That's all, no peat or perlite. I'm using Manna Pro granite instead of perlite just to use it up since I have a couple bags of this on hand from other projects. The granite works just like perlite, except for the added weight in the container.

As for the gnat/insect problem, I've read about a few other people having similar issues but I've never seen gnats or other insects, except for occasional ants, near my containers. My containers are the black plastic nursery type, sitting outdoors on the ground but no insects so far.

Hope that helps.

TYG

In my last batch I left peat moss out completely. Because my bark mix had enough fines , plus I added some DE( UltraSorb). I like this stuff. While it holds moisture but it would not compromise drainage like peatM does. It is a bit more expensive than peat but is worth it. So axtually, after it is saturated, will work just like perlite. Interesting property.

seysonn,

Isn't that like turface? So your 5-1-1 is bark, bark fines and UltraSorb? So UltraSorb instead of Perlite?

SO want to get several yards (multiple gallons) of this made up, but have VERY limited space to sift/mix/sort (city life is a drag)... is there anyplace in NE Ohio that may be able to MAKE me a bunch of this to order so I can get my plants potted up properly?? :D I want several gallons of the gritty mix, and several of the other potting mix for various container purposes... though I think the gritty mix is going, :). any help anyone?? :D Have just spent a couple hours readin gthrough all of Al's posts, and comments on his repeated posts, and am so excited to have found them, and this one!! I have several citrus/tropical fruit trees and houseplants that are hanging on by a thread and am desperate to get them thriving!! THANKS GUYS!! - oh, I'll be planting them up in bags rather than pots when I do for additional root health.

tervnut, I guess relatedly, I did a Google search for "potting soil cubic yard" and "my county name." It gave me a number of leads. It might work for you.

Quoted thus: potting soil cubic yard "orange county"

Personally, I'm flexible on the mix, if it has good characteristics, or references.

Any lot selling potting soil by the cubic yard should be able to name happy bulk purchasers.