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Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Posted by midnightsmum 4b ON (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 10, 12 at 10:34

Well, another gorgeous Sunday am here - sunny, and warm, but not too warm!
Well, it is a sad state of affairs these days, the way the banks profit excessively from hard working people!! Then there are the Ponzi schemers!! It's tough to know who to trust. Me, I going back to hoping that I win the lottery! So many ways to be taken advantage of!!! So tell me, what is 'Lombard' banking?

I'll be back with clues later - if you need them.

Nancy.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Have to recuse myself on this one. It is a fun one though!


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

No idea, I need clues.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Is it anything like Lombard Street in San Francisco, all twisty and crooked?

TM


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

I have no idea :(.

Annette


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

In the Middle Ages, it was a type of banking that originated with the prosperous northern Italian region of Lombardy. The term was sometimes used in a derogatory sense and some were accused of usury. A Christian prohibition on profit from money 'without working' made banking sinful according to an edict from Pope Leo the Great. In spite of early church prohibitions against usury, there is some evidence that the Franciscans were permitted to begin the practice as an aid to the poor. And TM, the street was named for this activity, and most large cities have streets with this name!!
Any help?

Nancy.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

I hope you don't mind Nancy if I trade off with you a bit here and jump in-TM, many cities have a Lombard Street (my hometown of Philadelphia is one, too). The reason is connected to Nancy's question.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Sort of like Church Street or Bridge Street!!

Nancy - thanks Cyn. Sorry I spoiled the fun for you!!


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Could the banking have been carried out in such a way that the books would show no interest paid, but by some indirect means the money lenders would still get compensated?

Just thinking out loud.

TM


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Very good, TM. You are getting warm!!

Nancy.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Thanks Nancy. I will hold onto your answer for you for a while!


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Hmmm...any other clues I could give will be a 'give-away'!! Let's try this: The only real necessity for a young man who desired a future in the financial world of the Middle Ages was the ability to read and write; the methods used for bookkeeping were carefully kept within families and slowly spread along trade routes. Therefore, this knowledge was available most readily to Jesuits and Jews, who consequently played a major role in European finance.

Any help?? Nancy.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Perhaps the loan was repaid and the borrower, in a totally unrelated transaction, of course, made an nice little offering to the church. Am I still warm, or getting colder?

TM


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

TM, maybe I could give you a clue for your idea and when you get the answer, you can return it. Of course, no answer, you get nothing back.

Nancy, just tell me to butt out if you want! Well, no need really since it is a school night and time to close up shop. See you all tomorrow and then next Saturday.

Cynthia


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

I think I got it from Cynthia's last clue. While I have never been in one of theses places I have had friends tell of their bargains buying music and jewelry. Fortunately this is not the kind of banking I have needed. It always brings to mind an old Twilight Zone episode of the guy and his instrument, now was it a trumpet or a guitar?

Just got home from a graduation party which we left just before a heavy rain. Won't have to water tomorrow.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Is it one of those take it in get it back later kinda places?

Annette


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Oh, are we talking about a pawn shop?

TM


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Pawn Shop is what I'm thinking, TM.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

lol. Despite my terrible clues, I knew you'd get it! Good collective effort.
Photobucket
The Moneychanger, by Rembrandt.

I started out wondering what the significance of the 3 balls over the entrance meant - boring. The pawnbrokers' symbol is three spheres suspended from a bar. The three sphere symbol is attributed to the Medici family of Florence, Italy, owing to its symbolic meaning of Lombard. This refers to the Italian province of Lombardy, where pawn shop banking originated under the name of Lombard banking. The three golden spheres were originally a symbol medieval Lombard merchants hung in front of their houses, and not the arms of the Medici family. It has been conjectured that the golden spheres were originally three flat yellow effigies of byzants, or gold coins, laid heraldically upon a sable field, but that they were converted into spheres to better attract attention. So I thought, ha,Lombard banking, never heard it referred to that way, and wondered if that were true for the rest of you!! Often I am alone in the dark. lol. Pawnbrokers (and their detractors) joke that the three balls mean "Two to one, you won't get your stuff back". Saint Nicholas is the patron saint of pawnbrokers. The symbol has also been attributed to the story of Nicholas giving a poor man's three daughters each a bag of gold so they could get married. Pawnbrokerage arrived in England with William the Conqueror, but known by the Italian name, Lombard. In 1338, Edward III pawned his jewels to raise money for his war with France. King Henry V did much the same in 1415. The Lombards were not a popular class, and Henry VII harried them a good deal. Queen Isabella of Spain pawned her jewelry to finance Christopher Columbus's first voyage to the New World.

Crusaders, predominantly in France, brokered their land holdings to monasteries and diocese for funds to supply, outfit, and transport their armies to the Holy Land. Instead of outright repayment the Church reaped a certain amount of crop returns for a certain amount of seasons, which could additionally be re-exchanged in a type of equity.

A pawnbroker can also be a charity. In 1450, Barnaba Manassei, a Franciscan monk, began the Monte di Pieta movement in Perugia, Italy. It provided financial assistance in the form of no-interest loans secured with pawned items. Instead of interest, the Monte di Pieta urged borrowers to make donations to the Church. It spread through Italy, then to other parts of Europe. It was really a religious divide, as noted. Crusaders, predominantly in France, brokered their land holdings to monasteries and diocese for funds to supply, outfit, and transport their armies to the Holy Land. Instead of outright repayment the Church reaped a certain amount of crop returns for a certain amount of seasons, which could additionally be re-exchanged in a type of equity.

Pawn shops thus operate on the basis of a contract that fixes in advance the 'fine' for not respecting the nominal term of the 'interest free' loan, or alternatively, may structure a sale-repurchase by the 'borrower' where the interest is implicit in the repurchase price. Similar conventions exist in modern Islamic banking. Various ways around the prohibition were devised, so that the lowly pawnshop contractors could bundle their risk and investment for larger undertakings. Christianity and Judaism generally ban usury, but allow usury towards heretics. Thus Christians could lend to Jews and vice versa.

The near-monopoly position of the Jewish lombards in finance became less prominent as various Protestant factions after the Reformation became just as persecuted as the Jews. In the 18th century many bankers and shipping agents were Quakers. Though the pawnshops were no longer manned by Jews and/or Jesuits, they were more and more often called Lombard houses, and most major port cities still have a 'Lombard Street' or 'Lombard Ally' today. American examples are San Francisco, New Orleans, Boston, Baltimore, and Philadelphia. The term 'Lombard' for pawnshop (or pawnshop owner) was in use well into the late 18th century, thus many of these streets were named with the establishment of shipping agents in those towns.

The practice of Lombard credit is still commonly used in central banking, where central banks lend against marketable securities, such as government bonds. Modern repo (repurchase-sale transactions) are also forms of Lombard lending: one bank sells marketable securities to another (at a discount), with an agreement to repurchase the securities (typically at par) in a fixed period of time. Although the legal documentation of the transaction is that of a sale and subsequent repurchase, the substance of the transaction is a secured loan (and under most accounting standards, will be treated as a loan). Pawn shops in many countries and languages are often still referred to as Lombards.

So there you are - I tried to keep it short, but it really is very interesting, I think!! And everyone got it! I had Cynthia in on it this week, because I had a surgery last Monday, and wasn't sure how I'd be affected - I'm going back to work tomorrow, so as the kids say, it's all good!!

PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucketfor everyone!!

Thanks for playing, see you next Sunday!! Nancy.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

Thanks for the stars and the info about pawn shops. There was a reference to a Lombard street on a show I was watching late last night.

Glad to hear that you are recovering from your surgery and can go back to work, Nancy.


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

I had never heard of any of this. You can learn a lot of stuff here at the cottage.

Thanks, Nancy.

TM


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

I love that painting, Nancy! This was a terrific question-I agree with TM-I never heard any of that and we do learn a lot,especially from your questions!

Have a wonderful week.
Cynthia


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RE: Weekend Trivia - Sunday

(Blush) Thanks guys!! Great pic, TM!! And sigh, I am still home today. I need a note to go BACK to work!! Who knew? So I've got a call into the Dr., and hopefully can get one with an appointment, which would take forever!!

Have a great week, all.

Nancy.


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