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midnightsmum

Weekend Trivia -- Sunday

Another gorgeous fall Sunday morning here!! I'll be heading off to see if I have any more tomatoes at my allotment later today!!

Well, I'm sure that I've mentioned before I do our family genealogy. My maternal Grandfather was born in Northwich, England near the Welsh border. I find English names quite confusing, as I beleive this would be pronounced norich, and there is another town on the east coast of England called Norwich. Very confusing. The suffix on these place name usually indicate what they are, how they were formed. "ford", for example means a place where the river was traditionally crossed - Thetford, Bradford, etc. And so on. I found that my maternal Grandmother and her sisters and parents arrived in Quebec, from Liverpool 100 years ago last week. Very cool. Which got me thinking about how little I know about Grandpa's family. So I did a little rudimentary research about where they came from..... Middlewich, Nantwich, Northwich and Droitwich are known as the Domesday Wiches due to their mention in the Domesday Book. Hmmm.....what is the significance of a "wich"??

I'll be back with clues, if you smart guys need them!!

Nancy.

Comments (11)

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, what if you gave a party, and no one came?? I've always wondered that.....well, it was a long week in the salt mines for me, beavering away, so perhaps it was the same for all you.

    The Domesday Book, btw, was created because: "While spending the Christmas time of 1085 in Gloucester, William had deep speech with his counsellors and sent men all over England to each shire to find out what or how much each landholder had in land and livestock, and what it was worth" (Anglo-Saxon Chronicle).
    One of the main purposes of the survey was to determine who held what and what taxes had been liable under Edward the Confessor; the judgment of the Domesday assessors was final - whatever the book said about who held the material wealth or what it was worth, was the law, and there was no appeal. It was written in Latin, although there were some vernacular words inserted for native terms with no previous Latin equivalent, and the text was highly abbreviated.

    Hmmm... for what it's worth!!

    Nancy.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Uhoh. Need clues!

    Cynthia

  • mnwsgal
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am also waiting for clues.

    Picked all my green tomatoes last night expecting frost. Most will slowly ripen and supply should last until sometime in November.

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmmm...I froze some of my excess ripe tomatoes. No time to pickle....
    During Roman times Northwich was known as Condate, meaning "the confluence", probably due to its location at the meeting point of the rivers Dane and Weaver.
    Northwich can be identified through two contemporary Roman documents. The first of these is the Antonine Itinerary, a 3rd-century road map split into 14 sections. Two of these sections, or Itinerary, mention Condate, namely: Itinerary II which describes "the route from the Vallum to the port of Rutupiae", or the route between Hadrian's Wall in northern England and Richborough on the Kent coast; and Itinerary X is called "the route from Glannoventa to Mediolanum" and details the route between Ravenglass fort, Cumbria and Mediolanum (now Whitchurch, Shropshire). The second document is the 7th-century Ravenna Cosmography. Again this document refers to Condate between the entries for Salinae (now Middlewich, Cheshire) and Ratae (now Leicester, Leicestershire), at the time the capital of the Corieltauvi tribe.

    The Romans' interest in the Northwich area is thought to be due to the strategic river crossing and the location of this commodity which makes a wich a wich!! So there, there's a few clues for you. Challenge is the spice of life!!

    Nancy.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, good clues, Nancy (at least they are good if I picked up on the right things-lol). Thinking commodity, spice, and a word from your earlier post go together. Was this also used as money in certain cultures?

    Cynthia, who is so tired from cleaning, digging holes, and planting that she is just throwing pasta in a pot and having it without sauce-just butter and salt tonight and a little broccoli maybe.

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Roman soldiers were often paid with this commodity, and it is believed that is the origin of their name.

    Two weekends hence is Canadian Thanksgiving. Wish Annette were here - it seems quite early this year, to me. I suppose that the timing has something to do with moon phases!! I was looking at turkeys today, as they were on sale. I usually wimp out and buy the pre-stuffed Butterballs, though I prefer the President's Choice, which is more expensive, but basted with real butter!! I was thinking this year I might get a fresh one and brine it.....has anyone ever done this, and how did it turn out??

    Nancy.

  • mnwsgal
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Clues everywhere, I think I've got it.

    Off to have a late lunch/early supper or as we call it, lupper. Will cut a ripe Stump of the World tomato and eat it with s & p.

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A soldier's worth was often measured by this, as well.

    Nancy.

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's midnight and I just got home, after reading everyones comments I'm thinking SALT. By the by, the show I went to see 'Jersey Boys' was fantastic, the best I've ever seen. Took me wayyyyy back.

    Annette

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, you 3 have it!! Wich and wych are names associated (but not exclusively) with brine springs or wells in England. Originally derived from the Latin vicus, meaning place, by the 11th century use of the 'wich' suffix in placenames was associated with places with a specialised function including that of salt production. Several English places carry the suffix and are historically related to salt, including the four Cheshire 'wiches' of Middlewich, Nantwich, Northwich and Leftwich (a small village south of Northwich), and Droitwich in Worcestershire. Middlewich, Nantwich, Northwich and Droitwich are known as the Domesday Wiches due to their mention in the Domesday Book, "an indication of the significance of the salt-working towns in the economy of the region, and indeed of the country". Aside from being a contributing factor in the development of civilization, salt was also used in the military practice of salting the earth by various peoples, beginning with the Assyrians.
    It is commonly believed that Roman soldiers were at certain times paid with salt. (They say the soldiers who did their job well were "worth their salt.") The word 'salary' derives from the Latin word salārium, possibly referring to money given to soldiers so they could buy salt. The Roman Republic and Empire controlled the price of salt, increasing it to raise money for wars, or lowering it to be sure that the poorest citizens could easily afford this important part of the diet.
    It was also of high value to the Hebrews, Greeks, the Chinese and other peoples of antiquity.
    Already in the early years of the Roman Republic, with the growth of the city of Rome, roads were built to make transportation of salt to the capital city easier.
    Salt has played a prominent role in determining the power and location of the world's great cities. Liverpool rose from just a small English port to become the prime exporting port for the salt dug in the great Cheshire salt mines and thus became the entrepot for much of the world's salt in the 19th century.
    Salt created and destroyed empires. The salt mines of Poland led to a vast kingdom in the 16th century, only to be destroyed when Germans brought in sea salt (to most of the world, considered superior to rock salt). Venice fought and won a war with Genoa over salt.
    The gabelle - a hated French salt tax - was enacted in 1286 and maintained until 1790. Because of the gabelles, common salt was of such a high value that it caused mass population shifts and exodus, attracted invaders and caused wars.

    In American history, salt has been a major factor in outcome of wars. In the Revolutionary War, the British used Loyalists to intercept Revolutionaries' salt shipments and interfere with their ability to preserve food. During the War of 1812, salt brine was used to pay soldiers in the field, as the government was too poor to pay them with money. Before Lewis and Clark set out for the Louisiana Territory, President Jefferson in his address to Congress mentioned a mountain of salt supposed to lie near the Missouri River, which would have been of immense value, as a reason for their expedition. (By 1810, new discoveries along the Kanawha and Sandy Rivers had greatly reduced the value of salt.)
    So there you are - you are worth your salt!! For Cynthia, Bobbie and Annette:

    Thanks for playing this week - always fun for me when I find something interesting!! TM, I hope you are well, we missed you!!

    I am including some music for you: another MB's album, no surprise there!! This is an extended CD - another album I should have bought.
    Nancy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: To Our Childrens's Children's Children

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the stars. Your clues were great. I probably would have guessed woods/forest without them!

    Have a terrific week everyone. Glad the show was so good, Annette. As someone who spent summers on the Jersey shore, I bet I would love it, too.

    Have never brined a turkey, but have heard they are great. I used to use Martha Stewart's recipe with a butter and wine soaked cheesecloth over the turkey, although I use a piece of white sheeting instead. I don't use the wine since Chuck stopped drinking. Too bad-it was great! It does seem early for your Thanksgiving! Maybe time is just moving too fast for me these days. We have a yoga class on Mondays after school this year-first one was today-so perhaps I can slow myself down a little. :)

    Cynthia