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midnightsmum

Weekend Trivia -- Sunday

Well, another grey Sunday morning - Pita is helping type the question in - not!! She is in my lap and must be adored, so I'm type one-handed, not easy.

Well, not exactly a Christmas question, but inspired by the Christmas concert last week. A great opportunity to get out and hear wonderful live music! It is a 15 year tradition in this town, to have the Central Band of the Canadian Armed Forces come out to play the Christmas concert - full military Brass band and a Drum and Pipe contingent!! Wowser I love it. They had a couple of civilians to augment their ranks, a singer who was amazing - imagine a woman with a voice that can front a brass band!!
So they did a great programme of Christmas music - the usual, excellently played, and the chance to sing along to carols.
I need you to listen to the You Tube link below - this is one of the tunes that they played - this isnâÂÂt them, btw!! The long valve-less horns are called post horns, used for centuries for fanfares, mail coaches, etc. They grew out of a long tradition. There is a tradition that was demonstrated to us that blew my mind. It may be Canadian only, I could find nothing on line about it. I spoke to the Major who is the band conductor after the concert, and he said the practise goes back in the Canadian Army to at least the 1950âÂÂs and he hadnâÂÂt found anything more on it. They used a Lee-Enfield rifle, also called a .303 in Canada, put a trumpet mouthpiece in the barrel end, and blew the same fanfare!!! Omg, the visual alone was amazing, but the idea that it could do the same thing was wild. And yes, IâÂÂm pretty sure it was not loaded!! It would have been a great trivia question, but without finding anything on it anywhere, no go - and I would not have believed it true unless I had seen it with my own eyes - you can use this for a conversation stopper at Christmas parties!!
Which leads me to the question, which is not Christmas related - sorry: The "Last Post" call (2nd Post) is used in British Army camps to signal the end of the day when the duty officer returns from the tour of the camp and quarters. The call "First Post" is used to mark the start of the inspection. The name derives from the practice of inspecting all the sentry posts around such a camp at the end of the day, and playing a call at each of them. The "Last Post" was thus the last point of this inspection, and the call signalling that this post had been inspected marked the end of the military day. The practise, though, comes from a very different, very old and very Dutch tradition called taptoe. So, what did the Dutch use this call for?

Nancy - who will be back with clues, if you smart guys need them!

Here is a link that might be useful: Last Post Gallop

Comments (17)

  • thinman
    11 years ago

    That's funny about using the rifle barrel, but not all that crazy. Any open tube will actually work to produce a range of harmonic bugle-like notes, even without the mouthpiece. The longer the tube, the lower the notes will be. The mouthpiece makes it easier and keeps you from getting a circle of gun oil on your lips. Yes, I do know this from experience. :)

    Trivia-wise, all I am thinking of so far with Dutch and taptoe is something to do with wooden shoes??? It doesn't make any sense to me yet, so we'll see what kind of more sensible clues pop up from the smarter members of the group.

    TM

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    11 years ago

    Hmmm, don't know, but will hazard a guess based on what I know about the Netherlands. I don't have a lot of confidence in my idea, though, so will look for clues later!

    Cynthia

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Ah-ha - TM, I was hoping someone here would have heard of this practise!! And do tell, how do you know this??

    This custom dates from at least the 17th century, and originated with British troops stationed in The Netherlands, where it drew on an older Dutch custom, called taptoe, from which comes the term Tattoo as in Military tattoo, and also the term Taps, q.v.. The taptoe was also used to signal the end of the day, but has more prosaic origin. Now what might army troops get up to??
    Last Post nor Taptoesignaal is not to be confused with the US call "Taps", which has a similar function but different tune and origin.
    Hmmm...any ideas yet? I've included another link below, which is Last Post performed by a bugler from our Governor-Generals Foot guard - from the setting, I would say this was taken at the Drill Hall in downtown Ottawa. A bugle is used in cold weather as the valve-less post horn is difficult to regulate then. It is also easier for a less skilled musician to play.
    {{gwi:617643}}
    This is a sniper from the Canadian Army - it gives you an idea of the size of the rifle involved. The Major who played it at the concert said it was HEAVY!!

    Nancy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Last Post, Moment of Silence followed by Rouse

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    "Taps" is actually a variation of an earlier bugle call known as the Scott Tattoo which was used in the U.S. from 1835 until 1860, and was arranged in its present form by the Union Army Brigadier General Daniel Butterfield, an American Civil War general and Medal of Honor recipient who commanded the 3rd Brigade of the 1st Division in the V Army Corps of the Army of the Potomac while at Harrison's Landing, Virginia, in July 1862 to replace a previous French bugle call used to signal "lights out". The tune is also sometimes known as "Butterfield's Lullaby", or by the first line of the lyric, "Day is Done". Butterfield's bugler, Oliver W. Norton, of Angelica, New York, was the first to sound the new call. Within months, "Taps" was used by both Union and Confederate forces. It was officially recognized by the United States Army in 1874.
    There are many apocryphal stories about this tune, worthy of it's own trivia question, perhaps.
    But Last Post is based in something more basic, more attuned to the common soldier and their habits off duty!

    Nancy.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Taps - the U.S. Navy Band

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    11 years ago

    Your last clue has given me a thought, has it anything to do with liquid indulgences :).

    Annette

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Aaahhhh, Annette!!! lol.

  • thinman
    11 years ago

    My guess is the same as Annette's.

    Stop drinking and get the !@#& back to the post!!

    TM

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    lol, slightly more subtle than that!! Also, from another point of view!!

    Nancy.

  • aftermidnight Zone7b B.C. Canada
    11 years ago

    My thought was drink up it's kicking out time, hmmmmm or maybe it's a call for that last drink LOL.

    Annette

  • thinman
    11 years ago

    Time to dance?

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    lol!! No dancing! Sometimes your first thought is best, Annette. And TM, you haven't fessed up about the gun-oil remark!!!

    Nancy.

  • mnwsgal
    11 years ago

    Clues seem to be pointing to a closing up time.

    I've been out shoveling our 8+ inches of snow to get to the bird feeders so I could clear the snow from them and the birds can get some food. We have a service to clear the driveway but he will not come until the snow has stopped. Snow plow has been past once mid-morning and could use another pass. It is a mid weight snow, not light and fine but not super heavy and soaking wet. Still heavy and packed. Fortunately not too cold and no wind. Still snowing. I hear the kettle whistle so off to make hot chocolate.

  • cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
    11 years ago

    Telling the bars to close?

    Cynthia, who wishes we were getting some of Bobbie's snow! Enjoy the hot chocolate and watching those grateful birds!

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I hate wet snow - so heavy to shovel!! but I miss watching the birds - that's going to change, hopefully!!

    Bobbie has read the clues well~~

    Nancy.

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Well, it's that time on a Sunday evening - I'm early tomorrow, as some of you are, so perhaps it's time for the reveal??

    Taptoe originated signalling the moment that beer taps had to be shut, hence that the day had ended. It comes from the Dutch phrase Doe den tap toe, meaning "Turn the tap off": however the Dutch "Taptoe" bugle call Taptoesignaal, now used for remembrance events, is not the same tune as the Last Post. The "Last Post" was used by British forces in North America in colonial times, but its function was taken over in the United States by "Taps".
    Since 1928 the "Last Post" has been played every evening by buglers of the local Last Post association at the war memorial at Ieper (Ypres) in Belgium known as the Menin Gate, commemorating the British Empire dead at the Battle of Ypres during the First World War. The only exception to this was during the four years of the German occupation of Ypres from 20 May 1940 to 6 September 1944, when the ceremony moved to Brookwood Cemetery in England. On the evening that Polish forces liberated Ypres, the ceremony was resumed at the Menin Gate, in spite of the heavy fighting still going on in other parts of the town. These buglers or trumpeters are quite often mistaken as being from the local fire brigade; however, they are present every day representing the Last Post Committee. They are indeed members of the fire brigade, and can sometimes be seen wearing the uniforms, but it is not the Fire Brigade that organizes "Last Post". The Last Post Committee have both silver Bâ­ bugles and Eâ­ cavalry trumpets with either British Army tradition being respected at services at the gate.
    One point that is noted is the difference between the Rouse and Reveille. Rouse is the call to wake up; Reveille is the call to get out of bed and form up.
    Reveille to the Commonwealth:
    Or-der-ly officer is on his round!
    And if you're still a-bed he will send you to the guard
    And then you'll get a drill and that will be a bitter pill:
    So be up when he comes, be up when he comes,
    Like a soldier at his post, a soldier at his post, all ser-ene.
    to the U.S.:
    I can't get 'em up,
    I can't get 'em up,
    I can't get 'em up this morning;
    I can't get 'em up,
    I can't get 'em up,
    I can't get 'em up at all!

    And so I am off, as I must get up in the morning!!

    I think everyone gets stars today:
    Thanks for playing - see you next week. Nancy.

  • thinman
    11 years ago

    The snow started knocking on our door here this afternoon - not too much so far.

    There's not all that much to the gun oil story, Nancy. When I was a kid I used to go hunting with my dad's single shot shotgun. This is a simple kind of gun that will hinge open in the middle so a shell can be loaded into the end of the barrel and then closed back up for firing. My hunting partner and friend told me that I could play the barrel like a hunting horn by opening the gun and lip-buzzing into the barrel. It worked, but he got a good laugh when he saw the ring of gun oil on my kisser.

    Now I know that you can do the same thing with any tube. One of my favorite things to do in my physics classes was to do the same trick with an 8 foot carpet tube and a Bunsen burner. The sound was like a ship's horn and always startled the kids. Maybe not quite as good as an explosion in chemistry class, but pretty darn close.

    TM

  • midnightsmum (Z4, ON)
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    lol - TM, you have made me think about my grade 11 Physics teacher - wish I could remember his name. There was a kid named Eric who sat up front with lovely long blond locks!! The teacher did this trick with a paper with Licopodium (?) powder on it, rolled it up to a trumpet shape and blew across a bunsen burner - flames shot out, I'll bet 5 feet, past young Eric's head. No sound, but I'll bet they don't let teachers to that anymore!!

    I actually enjoyed physics in grades 10 and 11 - had fun teachers. I got thrown out of my Grade 12 classes cause I had dimwit that only wanted me to listen - wouldn't let me take notes. I'd have like to go farther with science, but my math impediment didn't help.

    Thanks for that story, ones we can't tell the kids cause they might not unload the weapons!!

    Nancy.

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