April, Not everything gets started at the same time. I have started Statice, Snaps, Stock, Delphinium, Echinacea, Rudbeckia, Sweet peas. Remember though I am zone 4 or 5. Our last freeze is June. Statice, Snaps, Stock, Sweet peas go in the ground in April.

Bryan

Thanks, Bryan, for some clues about what you start earlier. Do you use a hoophouse or a greenhouse?

I know that some start earlier and some later (not from experience, just from the growing instructions), and I'm not worried about starting the later ones, but I'm still unclear about whether it will work for me to start the early ones if I only have lights, not a hoophouse. Will they get too leggy on me and ruin the plants?

Our last freeze is mid to late April. Maybe I should just stop worrying and start the beauties.

April

If you have a sufficient number and brightness of lights, and you put the plants close enough to them, they probably won't get leggy. Legginess is much worse when light is insufficient or too far away. I'd go with Lynn's times. Since your last frost is in April, I guess it's time for you to start! Greenhouses/hoophouses are more important for season extension for those of us in colder climates with later last frosts. We need an early start just to get some flowers before late summer, so we have to put our seedlings in hoophouses to wait and grow on, so they'll be good-sized before planting out. You can plant out smaller plants earlier, and direct-seed, so a hoophouse/greenhouse is not so essential.

Jeanne

Thanks, Jeanne. I think I have enough lights, so I'll get my courage up and keep the lights close, and look forward to spring!! And I'll try to keep in the spirit of experimentation. I'll let everyone know how it goes!

April

April,
Bob Wollam, a cutflower grower in Virginia has made available to us his growing plan with months his flowers are harvested for market. I've taken his information, added the days from sow to bloom, and the sow dates for you.

We do grow in hightunnels for season extension especially early in the season. Our last frost date here in Michigan is May 15. We also have a seedling greenhouse for starting our seeds. Not much different than the one you will be using to start your seedlings -- just on a different scale. Some people use those chrome racks/shelving units available from Cosco. They attach shop lights under each shelf thus creating a mini-greenhouse.

Agrostemma 'Purple Queen' 90-100 days, Sow: February 1-10, Harvest: May-June
Ammi 'White Dill' 112-126 days, Sow Feb 1-8, Harvest: June-July
Aster 'Daylight mix' 90-100 days, Sow: March 22-April 1, Harvest: July-September
Asclepsias 90 days, Sow: March 1, Harvest: June-October
Bupleurum 80-90 days, Sow: March 1-10, Harvest: June-July
Cosmos 'Sensation' 'Versailles' 'Picotee' 90 days, Sow: April 1, Harvest: July-October
Cramer's Yardstick, 90 days, Sow: March 1, Harvest: June-September
Eucalyptus 120-150 days, Sow: March 1-April 1, Harvest: August-October
Grass 'Ruby Silk' 75-85 days, April 7-17, Harvest: July-September
Gomphrena 'QIS formula mix' 'Bicolor Rose' 85-100 days, March 27-April, 1 Harvest: July-October
Gypsophilia 'Covent Garden Market' 'Gypsy Deep Rose' 55-65 days, Sow: March 28-April 7, Harvest: June-October
Larkspur 'Sublime mix' 'Azure Blue' 'Chorus Violet' 100-120 days, Sow: Feb 1-Feb 21, Harvest: June-July
Leucanthemum 'May Queen' 130-180 days, Harvest: June-August
Lisianthus 'Echo'Lisianthus is tricky. We always buy plugs. 120-140 days, Sow: Jan12-Feb 1, Harvest: June-July
Nasturtium 'Alaska' 'Jewel' 55-65 days
Phlox 'Scarlet' 50-65 days, Sow: March 28-April 13, Harvest: June-August
Iceland Poppy, 'Meadow Pastels' 100 days, Sow: January 21, Harvest: May-June
Polygonum 'Kiss me Over the Garden Gate' * 100-110 days, Sow: April 13, Harvest: August-September
Rudbeckia 'Indian Summer' 120 days, Sow: February 1, Harvest June-October
Salpiglossis 'Royal mix' 65-75 days
Scabiosa 'Olympia mix' 90-110, Sow: March 13-April 2, Harvest: July-September
Salvia, 'Marble Arch Mix' 70-85 days, 'Gruppenblau' 120 days, Sow: April-May Harvest: August-October
Snapdragon 'Costa' 'Rocket' 100-120 days, Sow: Feb 1-21, Harvest: June-July
Sweet Pea 'Royal' 90 days, 'Old spice' 90 days, 'Painted Lady' 67-90 days, Sow: February 1, Harvest: May-June
Sunflower 'ProCut Orange' 50-60 days'Sunbright' 70-80 days'Sunbright Supreme' 60-70 days 'Sunny' 80 days
Tithonia 'Torch' 100-120 days, Sow: Feb 1-21, Harvest: May-June
Veronica 'Sightseeing' 140-175 days, Sow: December 7-January 11, Harvest: June-August
Verbena bonariensis 90 days, Sow: February 1, Harvest: May-September
Yarrow 'Colorado' 90-110 days, February 11-March 3, Harvest June-August
Zinnia 'Oklahoma Mix' 75-90 days, 'State Fair Mix' 90 days, May-October

Good luck with your sowing.

Trish

If you are starting seeds in a greenhouse do you need lights?

April, love your questions. I get so much out of them too, being new to all of this as well. Keep being brave!

Taty

I am speechless. That must have taken you so much time, Trish!! I am speechlessly grateful. The sowing dates of a Virginia grower plus the harvest times will help me SO much. And will help me immediately, starting tomorrow. You even remembered Asclepia, which wasn't on my original list! Thank you so very much, and please thank Bob Wollam for me, too. If he's in Virginia, maybe I'll get to meet him sometime.

I really, really appreciate all the work you put into that, and will try to match it with my own industriousness. I will keep everyone updated on how it all goes.

April

Wow, so I was thinking it was too early to start many of my seeds indoors but I should start some? I started chicory and cupid's dart... I'm worried the chicory was too soon.

I have red corn poppies and evening scented stock (among many other things) Should I start those now? I am in the Lower Niagara region zone 6. What else could I start now?
I just remember one year I started cosmos this soon and by May they were sooo tall I had to raise the lights but then the lights were farther away from all the other seedlings. Plus the leaves were getting tangled. Trying to avoid that this year but I do LOVE earlier blooms.

Hi TastefullyJulie,
Welcome to the forum. We are in zone 5/6 Michigan.
Stock is 120 days sow to bloom. If you sow your seed now, you should be able to harvest the first week of June.
We grow ours in a hightunnel in order to have them available for market in May. So, our seeds are started sooner.
Corn poppies are 55-65 days. In order to have them in June, we would sow the seed May 29-April 3. We also start our cosmos the last week of March through the first week in April.

Good luck with you sowing!

Trish

Thanks so much! I will start my stock...

Ladies
All this talk of last freeze dates in April to June is mind boggling. Ours is late Feb and I'm already seeding summer stuff.
Cheers
Kim - Billabong Fresh Flower Farm

Kim,
That's why we have to use season extension and grow in hightunnels. With a last frost date of May 15, and markets starting May 1, we need to have bouquets at the market right from the get go. We could potentially lose a good six weeks if we relied totally on the available crops in the field the beginning of May. Our stock, sweet peas, snapdragons and other early crops are grown in the hightunnels. We do push the envelope just a little bit, and start planting the annual plugs out in the field May 1.

Trish

Trish, Do your high tunnels have the ends covered, or are they open? How high are they? Can you walk into them?
Thanks,
Martha

Sometimes the words: high tunnels, hoophouses and cold frames are used interchangeably. These structures are used to extend the season in all growing zones. This structure is an essential tool for the market grower. We are avocates of high tunnel production. Our high tunnels are 12 feet on center. The sides are around 4 feet.

Most growers rely on passive ventilation in high tunnels, hoophouses, and coldframes. The use of inexpensive fans hung from the purlins also helps move the air. Our high tunnels are situated with the prevailing winds. We have two large doors at each end of the high tunnel (which we open when the weather warms), and the sides roll up. Structures that are 96' long heat up more rapidly than a 48' structure. The use of a plastic film called Klerk's KoolLite 380 is a must. This plastic alters the spectrum of light which benefits plant growth. Plants grow during the critical morning sun. If the temperature inside the hightunnel reaches 84 degrees, the growing process halts until the next day. KL380 reduces the temperature inside the high tunnel by at least 10 degrees -- thus increasing the critical growth window. Crops finish sooner, and they are not stressed. This also gives us enough time to plant another crop for late season harvesting.

KL380 reduces the need for shade cloth when growing our lily crops in the high tunnels. This is important for northern latitude growers. Many of us growers have found reduced fungus sporulation using KL380. It doesn't kill fungus; however, fungal growth is reduced because the reproductive process is slowed down.

Sorry I got carried away with greenhouse film. I sound like a rep for Klerk's -- which I am not. And, I've probably given more information than Martha's question about high tunnels........

Trish

Another new grower here. Trish, you are an incredible wealth of information. Please can you advise where you get your KL380. We are erecting a high tunnel this year and I would love to do it right the first time. This is my second year growing on a larger scale for market, and I have discovered after reading everyones lists of plants that they are growing that I have been way, way too conservative in my choices. Back to the seed catalogs. Thanks for being out there.

This thread coming up again made me remember to give you guys an update... My husband is outside on the porch building a cold frame so we can have more space for the seedlings, and so I can start more. I am paying attention to all the hoophouse & hightunnel discussion so that next year we can plan on one. I can see now that we will easily use it.

When I started the first seeds several weeks ago, I was reminded about how magical a seed is -- such hope and life in such a tiny little thing. It is an act of faith to plant a seed... And then it's just exciting to watch them come up!

I am having a little damping off, which I am trying to remedy with chamomile tea and aerated compost tea and a fan. I am thinking, though, that maybe my soil mix was not light/soilless enough? I bought it from a large supplier of organic compost, and they advertised it as a "lite" mix for seed-starting, but it does have compost in it, and was heavier than I expected. Sigh.

Also, I only had two Verbena seeds germinate. I gave them 86 degrees on the heat mat during the day, and then a cold closet at night, as per the growing instructions I had. I then read that they could use stratification, so I am thinking of re-sowing and just putting them outside while the weather is cold, and then bringing them inside to germinate. What do you all think of that plan?

April,

I've never outgrown the wonder of watching seeds germinate. They truly are miracles of life.

We use a soilless germinating mix which contains perlite. We don't find much damping off. I also think the perlite aids in soil aeration. We've noted damping off if we have had too many sunless days. We learned not to water on those days. The fan should help, of course, with air movement. Our fans are always in use in the seedling greenhouse.

Verbena bonariensis is a tender perennial. It can take 14-28 days for germination. We've never used stratification with this one; however, we don't keep the seedling greenhouse warmer than 60 degrees at night. It is much warmer (80s) especially on the days the sun is shining down upon them. According to growing information I just looked at, Verbena bonariensis require cold nights, warm days to break dormancy. The seedling trays should be covered. Remove covers after germination. I'll admit that I've never covered them in the seedling greenhouse. This part is important: seed is sensitive to excessive moisture, so keep growing medium on the dry side until germination. There ya go. No more "Spritzer Boy" on the verbena seedling flats.

Miss Kitty, We purchase our greenhouse film from our local growers co-op. I think you can go to the Klerks USA website to find a supplier close to you. Or, check to see if you have a greenhouse and nursery supply house in your area.

Trish

Trish,
You have become quite the mentor for us newbies, and it's much appreciated. No need to apologize for getting "off track" on a subject, we take it ALL in. With regards to the Klerks Kool lite, and the fact you say a 48' greenhouse heats up slower than a 96',and the 10 degree difference it makes, is that something I shouldn't use with a unheated high tunnel when trying grow seedlings? I plan on starting in the house, in my sunporch like I always have, on the seeds that need to be started early, then using the GH, (hopefully it will be finished) to grow them on. I will use just the GH for some of the annuals that don't need a very early start, and grow them to planting out size in there. What do you think?
Bryan, I don't understand how you can plant out the things you talked about, when your last frost date is June 1st, the same as mine. I know I would get a killing frost on the statice, snaps, stock and rudbeckia. I'm sure the sweetpeas, delfs and echinacea would be fine. Is there no damage on the annuals?
Cheryl

On the contrary. I think you should use Klerk's KL380. Or, at the very least K50 IR/AC. I should have been clearer in my other post. I was really talking about during the heat of the summer here in the Midwest. You should be able to achieve 70-80 degrees during the spring days in your new greenhouse. If it gets to hot, you can always open the doors at each end for ventilation. Don't forget to use an inexpensive fan.

The benefits of using this particular greenhouse film are many. We use at least 20-30% less BTUs to heat our greenhouses compared to other clear film. With this film, the light is diffused. Each leaf on every plant will receive more light with less stress.There is less plant stretch in the seedling stage with difused light. There are absolutely no shadows in the greenhouse creating variances in growth patterns. Since there are no "hot spots" there is not the drying out of certain plants that would have receive direct light in the clear plastic film. Less drying out=less watering=less stress.

In a nutshell: You can reduce watering time 50%, save money on shade costs, significantly reduce botrytis concerns, add 1/3 turn around on crop production, reduce energy usage at least 20%, and consistently have healthy plants. How great is that? Could we talk about commission now you folks at Klerk's? Just kidding.

You didn't mention, Cheryl, when you plan to start using the greenhouse. In April? You'll need supplemental heat. May? Maybe. Your last frost date is a couple weeks after our May 15 date. Your plan sounds great/wonderful otherwise. Growing in a greenhouse is a new venture. It's exciting. Aren't you excited? I'm really happy for you.

BTW. Thank you for the compliment in the other thread. I wanted to mention that I really appreciate that.

Trish

I laughed out loud at the "Spritzer Boy" comment. Yes, now that you mention it, the Verbena was on the floor under lights after the two germinated and my son kept them regularly doused with the spritzer. I guess I'll have to keep them out of his reach this second time around. Thanks for the info, Trish.

And I just checked the temperature in the cold frame and it's 83 degrees! I just did a little dance. I think I wasn't convinced that it would really work, especially since it's on a porch and not connected to the ground. But it's working! More growing space! Yahoo! Cheryl, I imagine you'll feel the same way except even more so when your GH is finished.

April

Trish,
Yes, I am very excited about having a greenhouse. I was hoping that I would put plants out there in April without heat. It will be double walled, at least that's the plan I have, and hope the husband does too. If I start seeds out there, I thought if I blocked off one end into a smaller area, kind of a GH in a GH type situation, that mught cut down on the need for heat, or at least make a smaller area that I have to heat. The years can vary a bit here, so one never really knows what to expect, but we usually do stick with the June Ist date. The film sounds like a great idea, and I'll definitely check the catalog I have. Thanks so much.
Cheryl

I got a 4'x6' thermopane sliding door from the junk yard, seperated the panes and used them for a sloping roof with 6' head room in the center. I can get a lot of plants on 12'x2' shelf. Seeds I start in my bay window with bottom heat from a furnace duct. I CCP flowerfarmer's and Idaho-Jean's advice and save to floppy disc. I'll make print outs, later. Trish, I think that's the only complement I can give you:-), Doug

Necessity is the mother of all invention, Doug. We seem to have an abundance of all that on our flower farm.
I don't imagine it would be any fun without all that. We might, otherwise, be bored.
And, your spirited posts are compliment enough...........

Trish

That's a BIG compliment. Thank you!
Jeanne