Just curious as to how tall folks cut their zinnias, and in doing so, how many buds do you sacrifice to get the longer stems?

Last year, I started making my bouquets taller than they had been. Several reasons for this - perennial plants are getting established and bigger, I've been growing some taller flowers - glads and lilies - and I guess just cutting stems longer than I had been.

My zinnias, like many other people's this year, did not do well and had a late start, but are blooming now. However, now that I'm cutting them, they seem short. I don't know if it's because they ARE shorter this year, or if I'm getting used to cutting longer stems, or a combination of the two.

I'm terrible at sacrificing buds - getting better with the dahlias but still having a hard time with the zinnias (and especially chinese asters!). I usually cut my zinnias about twelve inches, but they are looking awfully short next to the sunflowers, glads, lilies, etc.

So what is a good length to cut them? And someone please promise me the plants will put out more buds when I cut them all off, lol!

:)
Dee

I had a really hard time sacrificing buds with my Dahlias, but I'm finding the same is true with them. The more you cut, the more flowers you get.

I was out cutting chinese asters this evening. These are one of my very favorite cut flowers, but I find you have to really sacrifice a LOT of buds, and they don't grow back like the zinnias. Much shorter growing/bloom time. I decided I will just have to find room to plant more of them, lol. And I guess I should do the same with the zinnias.

Oh, and I need to get a bit more ruthless, lol. Thanks for your input!

:)
Dee

Anyway, maybe I will have to rethink using zinnias with other, taller flowers, although I like to mix zinnias, dahlias, and sunflowers. But if I only sacrifice one to two buds, the longest stem length I get is 12 inches or smaller. That's cutting right down to the next set of buds, so to get longer I'd have to cut off this set (the third and fourth buds).

The only solution really is to buy another acre of land so I can plant more flowers, lol. I'm sure I have an extra $450K lying around somewhere....

:)
Dee

Since Zinnias are a "cut-and-come again" type, the more you cut the more stems, even if you sacrifice a couple of buds they will be replaced by new stems.

I always try to cut as long as possible but always ABOVE the new side branches if possible, but if I have to cut below to get extra length for a stem I do so knowing more side branches will be coming.

Are you saying you routinely cut that low? It seems, this year in particular for me, cutting that low leaves so little of the plant I worry it won't grow back (or grow back in a timely manner.)

Thanks all for your replies!
:)
Dee

The dilemma for cut flowers growers is how much do you sacrifice buds for a single beautiful flower. With Zinnias this is not quite as bad a problem because of the many side branches.

Well grown Zinnias will continue to produce side branches even if cutting real long stems.

I think the best thing is to grow tall growing Zinnias and plant them very close together which will make the plants grow even taller due to the competition. Many of my Zinnias are at least 4' with some even higher due to the spacing. I've found this to produce really long stems which you can cut and not sacrifice many side branches.

We grow for production so we have many plants, even if we sacrifice some side branches we still get heavy production.

If you are growing cut flowers for yourself you may want to cut shorter stems, but for marker production the longer the stem the better since shoppers will end up re-cutting stems when they get home a number of time to prolong the life of the flower.

China Asters are my favorite annual for cut flowers. The only problem is they are not a "cut-and-come-again" plant. You do get a lot of stems but poor side production at best.

We grow a lot of Asters so we get excellent production for a 3-4 week period then they go down-hill rapidly. Some growers stagger plantings by about 1 month but that takes space.

My choice for best flower is the Aster, my choice for the best flower AND production is the Zinnia.

As for being "ruthless" . . . yes, you sacrifice some buds to get the best flower NOW. As a market production we have to grow lots of plants, especially Asters, but they are well worth the effort because of the beautiful shapes, size, and colors.

Thanks for the idea of planting them close to extend the height. That's something I didn't really think about. I do grow for market, although I am quite a small grower.

Yes, the asters are definitely not a cut-and-come again flower. They are a cut-and-you're-done flower, lol. And again you're right that they don't produce for long. I'm finding that the stems this year seem unusually flimsy or weak. I mean, they are standing in the vase, but they just seem so thin and fragile. I don't remember them being quite like this, but it's been a weird year all around, so I just keep cutting what I have. And the worst thing about the asters that even if you sacrifice all those buds, you still end up with a 12-inch cut at most, maybe 14 inches if you're lucky. Good thing they are so darn beautiful!

Thanks again for all the input! Much appreciated!
:)
Dee

With Asters I do the same as Zinnias . . . plant closer together. And I plant the tallest varieties available. My stems are at least 14" long and strong.

All our beds are raised, we used soaker hoses, then put black plastic over the beds, cut holes for the plants. We are on a watering schedule, use composted manure and organic, low nitrogen fertilizer.

Our favorite asters are:

Opus
Sea Star (aka Tiger Paws)
Unicum
Standy
Perfection
Pomplona
Spider Chrysanthemum

All grow at least 24"-30" and by planting close together we get even a little taller with long, strong stems.

I have tried LOTS of asters. Duchess, Florette Champagne, Andrella, Milady, Astoria, Irresistible, Ostrich Feather, Moonshine, Serenade, Powder Puff, Tower, and Single Rainbow. Unfortunately, this year I had really bad germination, although the Unicun did well. I also tend to be bad at keeping track of which ones do well in the garden once I plant them out. Which is dumb of me because the reason I try so many is to find the best performers, and then I don't take the time to evaluate.

I always say I'm not going to grow so many asters because they are not prolific producers and have such a short bloom time - and then I have days like today where I made up some of the most beautiful bouquets of them, and I swear I will grow even MORE next year, lol.

:)
Dee

I've tried most of the others but weren't happy with Moonshine, Serenade . . . pretty but smallish flowers. Powderpuffs were OK but smaller flowers than I like. Astoria & Single were almost daisy like which is OK but I love the double-flowers.

I tried Hulk a couple years ago. Very different with green petals and a yellow center. Unfortunately it was susceptible to Aster Yellow and faded quickly before much production.

I always try to new varieties but I have my tried-and-true ones that I count on for reliability.

Tommyk - where are you? Do you grow your asters in a hoophouse? I've tried most of the varieties you/Dee have and while I love them when they grow, they just haven't done well the past 2 years so I didn't even grow any this year. They seemed to take up to much space for the amount of time/revenue I could get versus other flowers. However, when I did get a tall stems, I loved them with euphorbia marginata! Wonderful combination!

Just curious about how you grow them, how many plantings, etc.

Wendy

I was impressed this morning because I cut a few nice zinnias with a good length - probably about 16 to 18 inches - and only had to cut off two buds on each of them. I liked that, lol. I got the length without having to be ruthless. I tend to be very ruth, lol.

Oh, I forgot to add an observation above while talking about the asters. You reminded me Wendy when you mentioned about the last two years. The funny thing with the asters was the very first year I grew them, I had phenomenal germination and they grew great. The next year wasn't quite as easy as the first, and it seems to be going downhill from there, lol. I just think it's strange how sometimes you grow a plant that is so easy at first, and then won't grow for you. Oh well...

:)
Dee

I'm located in NH. We start all our plants indoors under professional grade grow-lights. Once they are up we transplant into individual cells and move them to our greenhouses when they are large enough.

We use organic potting mix and plant in the garden right after frost. We rotate crops, never planting in the same bed the following year.

Most of our annuals for cutflowers do very well year after year . . . we have great soil (the key to any successful gardening) and grow in raised beds, with soaker hoses and black plastic.

The Aster bed is 3'x28'. We can get 3 rows in spaced 1 ft. apart and 1' between the rows. As I mentioned early, we plant close together which seems to make the plants grow taller. We do have to ensure we have adequate fertilizer and do fish/seaweed foliage spray every 2 weeks.

Do you plant your seeds directly in the garden or do you start indoors?

Starting indoors gives you more control over conditions and germination.

If you don't start indoors I would highly recommend it. We use professional grade grow light stands from Harris Seed. There are a number of types & sizes they sell.

Ours are 4 levels, with full-spectrum adjustable lights, 16 total trays, timer, heavy duty alum-grade metal and on casters!

We have 2 light systems set up in addition to a couple of home-made systems. We are seriously considering getting more of the pro light systems. They are worth the money and much easy to work with.

I tried once or twice starting indoors, but never had much luck and again, no space. When I started winter-sowing, I had such great success and so many plants, that that is what actually led to me selling at the market.

I might be persuaded to give up winter-sowing if I had a greenhouse, lol, but that ain't happenin any time soon!

:)
Dee

I would highly recommend a greenhouse. With modern technology the price of greenhouses have drastically been reduced in cost.

Out 14x24 cost $493 (2002) which included the frame & UV plastic. We had to build the end walls but that wasn't that expensive.

It was relatively easy to erect (a weekend) and has paid dividends over and over.

I would also recommend getting the largest greenhouse you can afford because no matter what size you get it will not be big enough!

We have a glass & metal frame greenhouse/sunroom attached to our house which adds to the growing space, but the stand-alone hoop-house is a better growing environment. We also have a temporary greenhoue made with those car-ports you see that are covered with canvas. Actually it's a greenhouse frame and we just put greenhouse film over it and it does the job. We take it down in the fall, but we want to erect it in a permanent spot next spring because our business has grown and we need more space!

Sowing directly in the soil is 'Iffy' at best . . . to many things could happen that you have no control over: weather, insects, rain or no rain, sun or no sun, etc. If you are a market grower you need more control over what you are doing. Nothing wrong with Mother Nature . . . but Mother Nature can be very fickle!

I don't direct sow. I winter-sow. If you're not familiar with it, it's a great way to sow when you don't have an indoor set-up or a greenhouse. Not that you'll need it, but if you are curious you can see the link below.

:)
Dee

Teresa

:)
Dee