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sturgeonguy

To top or not to top, therein lies the question

sturgeonguy
15 years ago

Before I started Dahlias last year I read quite a bit about topping. I ended up topping several of my Dahlias last year. Apart from creating multiple stems that were difficult to keep upright, I donÂt know that I saw the value in topping. Appreciate, however, that I had nothing to compare to.

This year I pretty much decided I would not top anything. This will give me a good reference point for future topping trials. I should point out that I am not trying to show anything, I just want sturdy Dahlias that bloom well. I may remove the odd lateral to ensure good air circulation.

Does anyone believe that topping is an absolute must? If so, why?

Cheers,

Russ

Comments (11)

  • misslucinda
    15 years ago

    Hiya Russ:

    I certainly am no expert but last summer I did try a side by side pinch or not to pinch experiment. As I recall the pinched plant was at least a foot shorter than the untouched one and the flowering was more prolific but I thought the blooms smaller.

    Given the vast number of tubers and cuttings in your collection, do you really need more blooms? Let us know how it works out.

  • sturgeonguy
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    My formal garden is, at least by design on paper so far, very structured with each of the 56 Dahlias having their own space. I'm not looking for them to be any wider than they are tall, and, I'd really like to avoid the stems splitting at the base where the plant then becomes significantly wider.

    As far as blooms, the advice I've read varies from; "You'll only get one flower if you don't top" through "you must top in order to get early flowers" to "topping is basic grooming that must be done." I've read advice that says it must be done regardless whether you show.

    But almost every article talks about how the flowers are better and the stems longer, meaning its a good practice for cut flowers...which many Dahlia growers are looking for. I'm not, however, because my formal garden is right next to my sunroom...IOWs my garden is my vase.

    I've also read, on places like Swan Island, that topping is only done if you want a shorter bushier plant. I don't want such plants, I've designed my beds to accomodate the plant's natural sizes.

    But then they say if you top you'll get more laterals and blooms sooner, but those I didn't top last year never seemed to suffer.

    Hence the quandry...is there really truly a *need* to top, or is it simply done to make better blooms or get blooms at a specific time (e.g. show time!)

    I will be trying to figure out how to best take pictures of my Dahlias once their out. I have a plan to stand on the roof of my new sunroom and take pics from there...;-]

    Cheers,
    Russ

  • misslucinda
    15 years ago

    "Hence the quandry...is there really truly a *need* to top, or is it simply done to make better blooms or get blooms at a specific time (e.g. show time!)"

    None of the Dahlia Society websites I've visited have ever said topping is a must. Nor do they say you'll get earlier blooms--just more of them. On the other hand, I plan to top some dahlias this year for design considerations--they have to be shorter than the oriental lillys behind which are slightly over 5 feet tall and the hardy hibiscus behind the lillies which grow to about 6-7'.

    As far as the pictures go, no roof shots necessary. But would love to see your view looking inside to out on your flowers as well as outside and where they are sited in relation to your house.

  • misslucinda
    15 years ago

    ...What someone more experienced than me opines on the subject:

    Here is a link that might be useful: on topping

  • sturgeonguy
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thank you for the link Miss Lucinda, but itÂs one that actually led to this question. That article is entirely about flowers, not plants, IMO.

    I am not after just flowers. Besides, nothing they say suggests there is any benefit to the plant, only an individual bloom on it (which despite the fact they don't state any goal, has to be inferred from their discussion IMO.)

    IOWs, itÂs a great article if all you're looking for is a single great flower, and perhaps, and just perhaps, looking for great flowers to put in a vase. Their methods would, IMO, preclude the idea of having lots of flowers all season long because doing so is unlikely to result in any blooms of "largest diameter and depth possible for the variety."

    The simple idea of removing all laterals after a given set is abhorrent to me, regardless the stated benefits. Removing some I could see, but anything else is an attempt to make a plant grow in some way it wouldnÂt without human interventionÂand then itÂs not a plant.

    Thanks again for the suggestion though.

    Cheers,
    Russ

  • teddahlia
    15 years ago

    Swan Island tops their dahlias in July by using a lawnmower type contraption. They mow about 42 acres of dahlias. They do not tie up their plants(they want short plants) and want lots of laterals for cut flowers. If you do not top some tall varieties, they can grow seven or more feet tall. However, most varieties are not that vigorous and do fine without topping. I grow 3000 dahlias and only top about 1000 of them. I would dare anyone to tell which are which in September. Small flowered varieties send up laterals after the central stock flowers bloom.

  • Poochella
    15 years ago

    I try to top mine, but have missed some on occasion too. It makes no difference as to height in the end, as Ted stated. I'm after quality flowers and I also disbud, but don't bother to disbranch.

    Russ, I just can't imagine that you're after a dahlia for it's foliage, which is quite plain, and (it sounds) less after flowers, which is their glory. What IS your goal for growing them?

    Teddahlia, I hope you have lots of help on that number of plants. Amazing amount of labor to managing that amount. Bet it's pretty amazing in bloom too!

  • pdshop
    15 years ago

    I also followed the lateral pinching pictures last year and had hardly any flowers, just about 4 to 6 stalks! The smaller ones were fine as I left them alone.

  • sturgeonguy
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Poochella,

    I am after Dahlia plants with lots of flowers on the plant itself. A mix of foilage and flowers. I feel the leaves help accentuate the beauty of the flowers. I've done vases that are like a bouquet (full of just flowers) and while nice, none looked as nice as my solitary China Doll that had 40+ flowers on it at one time. I didn't pinch it, and it grew very bushy and, obviously, with tons of flowers.

    I had a MatchMaker last year that I pinched and it just went nuts. The flower stems were so long that they were drooping over, and with so many main branches at the base it was massive. There were, I think, too many flowers to let the plant be seen at its best. Perfect if its off somewhere you go to take cut flowers to bring indoors...not so perfect when its right there in front of you in your constant view.

    Hope that describes my goal...;-]

    Cheers,
    Russ

  • Poochella
    15 years ago

    Russ, you described your goals perfectly and made 'China Doll' sound very intriguing indeed. I guess the reason I find dahlia foliage plain, is that I cut off all the flowers and see nothing but green foliage, buds and stems, and short-lived flowers before the shears comes along to harvest them. I have had some short varieties full of blooms as you describe and found them quite pleasant, just not my goal.

    I wonder if the mass of main branches on Matchmaker were multiple main stalks or just wildly branched off one main stalk? Mine last year was very average in flower production. I would like it to go nuts with long stems as you describe!

    Do you disbud: remove the two inferior buds, (or more,) alongside the main bud on a branch? If not, that would account for a more massive flower display per plant.

    I'm getting kind of itchy to see some of these dahlias of which we speak. Too bad it's only April.

  • sturgeonguy
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Poochella,

    I think my Matchmaker stems were all off a single main stem. I had started them inside and knew there was only one main stalk when planted out. As I said, I did pinch it, which I assumed accounted for all the large stems at the bottom. I did the same thing to a Cabana Banana and its large stems broke off at the bottom after a storm, despite being fairly well trussed up.

    I did not disbud last year, but I am definitely thinking about it this year. Particularly for something like Purple Taiheijo, which I found had very short stems that the flowers were on. It made it such that the flowers were almost buried in the foilage. Gregory Stephen sorta did the same thing. I recognize now that it was probably because I wasn't tending to their needs as good as I could've (e.g. disbudding.)

    China Doll was definitely my favorite from last year, so this year I've made a place for 6 of them...;-]

    Cheers,
    Russ

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