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Questions on Fall Experiments

Posted by sturgeonguy 5a ON (My Page) on
Tue, Sep 30, 08 at 10:50

Many of you know how fastidious I am, so it will come as no real surprise that I’m planning now for a bunch of experiments this fall. For example, I’m going to take a Sandia Joy and China Doll and try to keep them growing as long as possible in my sunroom. I’m curious to see if they shut down bloom production or otherwise go dormant, or if I can keep them blooming through to next season. One will be getting artificial light while the other will be on a window sill.

Meanwhile, if you have any thoughts on the following questions I’d appreciate hearing your advice. Don’t be shy…;-]

Since all of my plants are still in their 4" pots, I will be interested to see just how the tubers have formed; as in have they broken out of the pots? Questions about lifting the pot tubers out of the ground:

  • Q1: If they have grown out of the pot, should I just cut the tuber at the pot boundary?
  • Q2: Should I dust them with fungicide if I do have to cut tubers, or just toss those individual tubers I have to cut?
  • Q3: Since they are in pots, do I need to leave them in the ground for a week or so after the stalk is cut, or can I bring them inside (avoiding all chances of frost) and let the eyes form before I put them away?
  • Q4: How will I store them? I’m hoping I have nothing but the 4" pot to store, as they would nicely stack in the fridge. I believe I can simply let them dry for a couple of days, then wrap each one in saran and put them in the fridge. Anyone see any reason that wouldn’t work?
  • Q5: Do I have to take the tubers out of the pots, clean off all the soil, and either store the entire clump or separate before storing like you would with field tuber clumps?

My goal is to get all of my plants blooming in June next year, so I have kept careful notes about each variety to know roughly how long they might take to bloom. This means that I plan to start some tubers in early December.:

  • Q5: Is there a minimum amount of time you have to leave a tuber dormant? If so, anyone know why?
  • Q6: Should I just not bother to store those varieties that take a long time to bloom and instead, after I’ve lifted the pot, go ahead and let the eye’s continue to grow to a sprout for a new cutting?

I will have a new growing spot in the sunroom. This is shelving with adjustable lighting heights that should allow plants to grow up to 3’ under the lights. I plan on keeping them more disbudded and disbranched than I have in the past so they, hopefully, will grow with stronger main stems. When they go in the ground, each one will be put inside a tomato cage. The tops of my plants have never had a problem; it’s always been the very bottom branches that break off due to wind and my dogs.

  • Q7: If you want your plants to be less bushy, at least while they’re less than 3’ in height, how would you accomplish this?

If I don’t have space in the shelving for all of the plants I grow, I figured I would take those that are furthest along and move them out onto the floor in the sunroom. This probably wouldn’t happen until March or possibly April. This means they wouldn’t be getting the same light intensity, probably after they’d already had 3+ months of grow lights.

  • Q8: Anyone foresee this as being a problem? I realize that when I move them out from under the lights they may start putting more effort into tuber growth. My concern is that they think they’re coming into winter and shut down.

Are there any other experiments you think might be interesting?

Cheers,
Russ


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Since all these tubers and pots are invading your house, I assume you are not married and that your dogs don't eat plants. I think you will find that the tubers will be spilling out of the pots. Please take pictures as I want to try pots next year as well.


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

I like this. I am doing some what the same thing. I have one tuber that I found two weeks ago in the bottom of my inside green house. It just started puting out leaves. It is now a foot tall. That will be grown all winter long. I have started taking cuttings from my growing dahlias out side. They are in the inside green house under lights. I will take cuttings from them as they progress. I too expect to have many plants in bloom by the first week in June. Five of those plants are spoken for all ready,if this works. So this will be a good winter for you and me Russ. Happy growing and up with Dahlias.


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Q5- Reply: we shipped dahlias to Cape Town South Africa last Nov. after they grew all summer here. One of our customers planted them immediately & they grew & bloomed just fine after being out of the ground only the amount of time it took them to get there- about 1 1/2 weeks. The other put them in storage for 2 months & then planted them & they grew just fine.
Our daughter-in-law used to grow them in Arizona. She'd plant in Dec., they grew like crazy & bloomed by Feb. When the weather got really hot she cut the ones that turned crispy back to about 4" & they started growing again & bloomed again when the weather got cooler in the fall. They were pretty much a year-round flower. Some of them never stopped bloomng & seemed to take the heat better then others but on the other hand those were in pots under the canopy & had misters that were on pretty much all day so were cooler than the ones in the garden. I don't think dahlias really have need of a rest time with cool temperatures like tulips or daffs do.


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Russ, I've tried something like this before but not in the large scale you're attempting. I don't know what grow lights you're using but you would need quite a few to accomodate those plants. Those ones you're planning to leave on the windowsill, I think might be doomed. You said you don't think there's enough light to grow orchids in that room because it's facing north?? If you can't grow an orchid with the natural light in the room. I doubt the dahlias have a chance. When they are all small plants it's probably ok with the grow lights but I think once they reach up to a foot tall, you'll have a big challenge with the lighting if you're not growing in a greenhouse. You may want to look into several metal halide or high pressure sodium fixtures. So.....GOOD LUCK!!! And please keep us posted along the way.


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

I grew two plants that were blooming under the lights last year so that should not be a problem for you Russ.


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

My plan this year was to use existing T5 fluorescents, 2 in a fixture, that produce a total of 8900 lumens. I planned on enclosing each fixture in a cabinet lined with panda plastic. I believe this should result in the plants getting ~12000 lux.

That's daylight, but not direct sunlight. I was just reading that I should be targeting between 40,000-60,000 lux to simulate direct sunlight. It would cost me roughly $2400 to add enough lighting to get into the direct sunlight realm, not something I’m prepared to do at this point.

However, last year I grew my tuber sprouts and cuttings under ~2800 lux, with nothing on the sides to direct the light, and they did grow.

Cheers,
Russ


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

I have added floodlights to my indoor green house. They add light on the sides of my fixtures. I also found two cornel tubers that have decided to come to life. I will be building some more flower boxes. So this winter will be busy.


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Does anyone know which State has the longest dahlia blooming tine? I might move there!


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Sturgeonguy
In the spirit of experimentation, don't forget the lab coat and diabolical laugh.


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Lol triple_b...;-] I will have to see what I can come up with, I think I might have a white house coat somewhere around...;-]...moooohahahaha...

pdshop...the longest state is...INSIDE!...because with the right treatment I think I could keep them in bloom year-round.

Cheers,
Russ


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Hi Russ--

I wouldn't ever contradict Plantlady but it seems to me some of the tubers I've ordered over the years state something about the number of blooms one can expect over the season...hmmm, maybe that's assuming per 'summer' growing season.

Q7: If you plant in areas that have less than full sun you will find your dahlias getting quite tall (and less bushy)in an edeavor to find the light. Otherwise, just cut off side sprouts.

Q7: How large a clump could you possibly have in a 4 inch pot? If they are potted in a sterile, soil-less mix and you let it dry out before storing, I don't really see any reason why you couldn't store them in the pots. That logic make sense to you?

Best regards from NY,

Lucinda


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

If you store in the 4" pots, stack them on their side so any moisture that remains has a chance to drain & they will air out better that way. We have a few friends in England that only grow from Pot Tubers & this is how they store them.

misslucinda- No one can tell you how many blooms you are going to get from a plant during a growing season- there's lots of considerations to look at- the amount of fertilizer you use, the length of the growing season, the temperatute & humidity, the amount of disbudding you do.... far too many different conditions to be able to predict how many blooms you will get. That being said, there are some dahlias that do bloom more prolifically than others -- notable the minis & BB & all the open centered stuff will put out more blooms than an AA or A ---& I can see a company claiming prolific bloomer- but as to stating the number of blooms to expect? That's really sticking your neck out & pretty much impossible to predict.
All I know is from our own experience & what we hear from customers-- dahlias don't need a cool rest period like daffs & tulips do -- a bit over two months after we dug them out of our garden where they had bloomed all summer they were in full bloom in South Africa.

pdshop- If you want to live in "Dahlia Heaven" you have to move to the Pacific Northwest-- anywhere from the Oregon border to the SW of BC-- takes in a lot of territory so you should be able to find a nice place with good dahlia growing ground :)


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Thanks Plantlady, that is what I thought as all the growers seem to be out that way. Questions to all... Are their any dahlias that can stand some shade. My evergreens are squeezing my light more and more each year?


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RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

Thanks for the replies so far, I’m surprised more people haven’t chimed in with their random thoughts…this thread isn’t meant to be a definitive anything at this point…it’s all speculation, observation, and guessing for now.

Pdshop, you’re right, I’m not married. My dogs have shown an inclination for playing with tubers that were put into a low propagation tray last year so I am taking precautions not to do that again. They have left the plants themselves alone. I will be taking as many pictures as I can.

Viking, glad I’ll have someone to trade results with throughout the winter, this is going to be fun!

Plantlady, your observations are pretty much what I expected. Your remarks, coupled with my own cutting experience last winter, tells me that a tuber is a sprout factory more or less for life. I had it in my head that a tuber, once it had produced a plant, was pretty much spent. I realize, however, that I took many cuttings from a single tuber last winter…so why couldn’t they do it year after year too?

With no replies to some of the questions so far, here’s my plan:

  • A1: I am going to simply cut the tubers at the pot boundary on the assumption that I can get enough whole tubers in each 4" pot to propagate what I need for next year.
  • A2: I’m going to keep one or two cut tubers as an experiment, but for the most part I am planning on tossing those that end up with a large cut.
  • A3: I am going to bring the pots in as soon as the stalks are cut and place them in my propagating cabinets to allow the eyes to form. I am going to try and wash out most of the soil from the pot and then place them in the trays, then put a small amount of water into the tray to feed the roots.
  • A4: Thanks Plantlady and misslucinda.
  • A5: Thanks everyone.
  • A6: For those varieties that take a long time to bloom I plan on starting them as soon as they’re out of the ground. As a tuber eyes up I will cut it from the original clump and put it into its own pot. I am interested in seeing whether plants grown from tubers, as opposed to cuttings, exhibit any differences (Faster growing? Better growth? Higher survivability?)
  • A7: Thanks misslucinda. I’ll cut off side branches.
  • A8: Guess we’ll just have to see what happens. Hopefully my experiments with the existing blooming plants will give me a heads up as to what to expect next spring when there are too many plants for the cabinets.

    Cheers,
    Russ


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    RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

    If you want to live in "Dahlia Heaven" you have to move to the Pacific Northwest-- anywhere from the Oregon border to the SW of BC-- takes in a lot of territory so you should be able to find a nice place with good dahlia growing ground :)
    * * *
    I second plantlady. We are in the Okangan and take a trip to Vancouver Island most years and so pass through this amazing growing country.


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    RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

    I don't know if this information will help you or not. I live on the CA Central Coast. I leave my tubers in the ground all year long. They are still blooming quite heavily right now and will through December. I cut them to the ground when we have a light frost or they start dying back. We have all of our rain from Dec. to April. They seem to do fine in the ground and don't rot. They come up again around March. I let Nature take over and they do their own thing. I think they are hardier then people give them credit and can put up with a lot of conditions. I have been growing them for over 30 years here that way.


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    RE: Questions on Fall Experiments

    aptosca You have been around a long time so where are the pictures dahlia?


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