What a STARK CONTRAST between the blooms! I would have never expected that much of a change! That top bloom is just beautiful!

Nancy

I can understand the color variance between year one and year three. What amazes me, and obviously you, is where did the heavy dramatic edge go. Supposedly, you need to see a plant for three years and it's going to improve, yada yada, guess this one didn't read that part. I know I look at some of mine in the second and third year and wonder why I wasted water on it.

I still agree with the old saying, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and some flashy first year blooms quickly become the sow's ear down the road.

I wonder what would happen if you plant it back into the garden if the edge would come back?

Brooke

Brooke, I will probably do as you mentioned and plant it back in the garden. It might be interesting to observe, although I doubt I will use it after this year. I am using it in a few crosses this year just to see what happens. I was somewhat interested in seeing what it might do, considering it's parentage. For me, AB gives fairly good edges, but poor color, D&P - good edges and DK nice color, but puny plants. At least the color improved this year.

This might be the most drastic change I have seen year to year in a daylily.

BIG difference! Holy cow! I never would have imagined they're the same daylily. I didn't realize they could change so much from year to year. Interesting!

It is unusual for them to change that much, but it does happen.

Brooke, the edge is still there. Not as obvious and not as wide, but there, as shown in closeup of today's bloom.

{{gwi:630681}}

I could see the colored edge on this year's bloom but the biggest shock to me was the missing knobby, whitish edge. You can see a slight light line around the edge but the bubbly is gone. If you had taken the first pic living in the south and then moved to the tundra with it, I would understand it.

What do you use as a potting medium? I wonder if it is an embalance in fertlizer, micro nutrients, etc. - in case you haven't guessed, I'm grasping for straws.

Brooke

Brooke, I was thinking along the same line today. I had thought it did not bloom last year. However, in checking my records, I found I had 5 pods in 6 attempts. It bloomed later last year and I did not take a picture. I have no idea what it looked like last year.

I am not consistent in what I use for a potting medium. Mostly use whatever I have, a little of this and a little of that. This daylily was in the gh last year and I did not repot it this year. I am wondering if it is a good idea to leave it in the same pot and potting medium two years. What I am wondering is, would salts, or whatever, from fertilizer build up. Don't know, just wondering.

I am also considering, in the future, using about 1/3 perlite or vermiculite, 1/3 bagged manure and 1/3 compost. This should give me something light (nice in moving pots), good drainage, but good water retention. Whatcha think?

Still grasping here but I would think the salts would be flushed out with the watering process since I use this theory for my potted plants whether it is a bonsai in a small container or for large containers which are hosta. Isn't it the P part of fertilizer that doesn't flush through a container/garden soil and stays there forever?

The 1/3 perlite would be an excellent additive if you continue with the bagged manure/compost mix because that is a very rich medium and the perlite would promote good drainage.

For all of my container plants, whether inside or outside, is pure pine bark soil conditioner which eliminates the use of the perlite. I will include some pics of hosta I have had in containers for several years. I add Osmocote in the spring and cover that with more pine bark. Hosta growers who keep their sale plants in containers use the pine bark fines and top dress each spring with bagged manure. I know the FL growers who keep their sale plants in containers are using basically a pine bark medium and then Nutricote fertilizer to them. My current supply of pine bark also has a generous helping of sand in it. In past years, there was no sand. All of my bonsai, whether they are in the grow out stage and planted in a huge container or in a "finished" small container, are planted in the pine bark. Some of these stay in their container for a couple of years and only have Osmocote added to them.

I guess that was a long and rambling way of saying I would use pine bark and also don't know if it is a nutrition problem which created the drastic change or not. If you used this plant last year, I would think it still had the dramatic edge since that is one of your goals.

Here are some containers with hosta in them. This one has been in this very small pot for four years {{gwi:630683}} This view shows several sizes from small to big - again, these have been in the containers for several years {{gwi:630685}} Sorry this is so dark but you can see the whiskey barrel planters in a new area opened up last summer. Even if they are new, all the hosta planted here have reappeared this year. {{gwi:630687}} This is the only pic I have of some bonsai containers, sitting on top of a table. {{gwi:630689}}

I need stock in a pine bark company! I think you should post this question to the Robin.

Brooke

Thanks for the info. and pictures. Regarding the pine bark, how large are the pieces when you use pure pine bark? I bought some soil conditioner that is pine fines, in bags, from Lowes. It appears to me that they are too large to use with nothing else. I think I have seen it ground very fine, like sawdust. Maybe not. The fines I got range from sawdust size to about 3/4" x 3/4". The pieces are very thin. picture below.

{{gwi:630691}}

Someone in SE GA sent me a catlog several years ago that gave a source for the pine fines, but I have trashed the catalog. I have considered posting to the robin, but right now, doubt I would travel 100 miles to get it. If I decide it is worthwhile, I probably will post. Will use what I have first.

Don't know if this will be interesting, but picture below is a seedling from DARING DILEMMA and the seedling we have been discussing.

{{gwi:630693}}

My pine bark fines looks like yours with about three distinct sizes in it - small (already composted) medium (about 1/4") and the up to about 1/2". In the big whiskey barrel type planters, I dump the whole bag in - usually takes about 1 1/2 bags to fill one of those. In the very small containes, I screen out the biggest pieces and throw those on the garden. Some of those small hosta containers and the smallest bonsai containers, there might not be a cup of "dirt" in them. In the bonsai containers, 50% of the potting medium is chicken grit added for drainage so there is very little "dirt" in them. The pots in the building with the conversion attempts might have some bigger chunks hand picked out, but mostly it is the straight stuff. The various chunk sizes create excellent drainage, excellent oxygen exchange and the bigger chunks hold moisture in the roots without being swampy.

I know you are a great reader/studier, go to evergreengardenworks.com and read about soil for container plants. I have adopted almost every aspect of bonsai container growing by applying the bonsai concept to the containers with perennials. So far (crossing fingers) it has worked in my garden.

Love the seedling from the behaving badly seedling. Again, the white edges and lots of ruffling - now I would expect the dark edge would intensify with age but out of behaving badly, who knows. I still think there is a man made reason for the change from year one to three and am even more convinced since you used it last year.

Here's a thought - plant it outside asap and see if you get rebloom this year and if there is a difference in the rebloom.

Brooke - still thinking

Well, as you will probably see, I posted to the Robin asking if anyone can give me a source for pine fines in GA.

I have a structure about 9' x 17', that has a shade cloth on top. Too much sun still gets in on the E, W, and S sides. I thought I would enclose the sides with shadecloth also, but now might put some of the treated lattice things up instead. Put a couple of bags of pine bark in the area and relatively speaking, could barely see the results. I need about 4 pickup loads of something. BTW, I intend to plant seeds there, in June, from seeds that I will hopefully collect this year.

I skimmed the reference you gave and intend to read it in detail later. Next season, I definitely want to improve treatment of potted plants.

I love the name you have given the seedling - "Behaving Badly". It's odd that I have no idea of its appearance last year. It bloomed late. I think I was tired of pollen dabbing, ending it and not very observant.

Thanks for the information.

Did you get any private responses regarding the pine fines?

Many hosta people use the lattice to make shade structures for their hosta and it should work great for your seed bed. I have one shade area that was built in the middle of a very sunny spot to and it has the lattice on one side to give the dappled shade preferred by the shade loving perennials. This is the backside {{gwi:630696}} and this is the overview of the area {{gwi:630698}} It created a great environment for the plants in the middle of a bright sun area.

Don't feel bad about not remembering Behaving Badly last year. I like to pretend when I am in the same situation it is because my mind has so many important things floating around, trivial takes a back seat. I have a third year seedling that bloomed last year that I cannot remember the first two years it bloomed. Obviously it made two years worth of cuts but since I don't do "eyes" it should be set in stone in my lone memory cell, but nope, don't remember but I really liked it last year - enough to get a pic of it. {{gwi:630699}} Scary huh?

Brooke

I had two responses on pine fines. One is in south GA and might be the one I remembered. The other is about 60 miles north of me, which is closer. I noticed it was put on the BB, which I did not request. Didn't mind, but was a little surprised.

I remember your seedling from an earlier post. I have one similar, but from different parents. It is in the gh and should bloom soon. It annoys me to not notice and remember things, but it does happen. Something funny (I guess)is that last year I had one daylily marked 2-41x its parents. There were several fans in the pot and when it bloomed it was obviously labelled incorrectly, because I have other fans of the same daylily in other pots. So, I just labelled it "not 2-41". It's blooming today and the bloom does appear to be 2-41. Evidently, some are and some aren't. That is why I now plant farther apart.

Thanks for the information and pictures on the lattices. I think they will be better than shadecloth, because vertical shadecloth will probably be ripped apart since it will not have solid backing like in a gh. And, it is ALWAYS windy here, or so it seems. I have wanted to spray weed killer for over a week and it has been windy every day. I got up early this morning (6:30), because very early, it often isn't windy. Lo and behold, what did my eyes see - - - a frost like snow and temp of about 25. Shoulda stayed in bed!

I was surprised when I got the BB that your request was there and then I found it on the Robin. We are digest people and was hoping to actually see some responses in public but most had their bloomers in a wad over the invasive post.

Crowded seedlings is one reason we move the first year bloomers that make the first cut. Even then, the instant clumpers can get jammed into each other when trying to dig them out. They get more room for the next season.

In '02, we had a small clump of daylilies bloom (first timers) with two VERY different blooms - I'm either going to get rich with this one plant OR when the seedling was planted out, massive rain had to "move" one seedling into the other seedling. Of course I did not mark which fans were different so the entire clump was moved to another bed. Last year it bloomed again, two different blooms, I marked the seperate fans, showed hubby the clump and the markers and asked when he dug and moved it, to please separate the fans. When I searched for it in the new area, you guessed it, the entire clump was moved intact. In his defense, this was growing in the area with the huge nutsedge (picture taller than daylily foliage). I redug the clump and planted each sf by itself. I have no clue if the sf's survived winter, but I have very minor losses in the nutsedge FREE new area.

Supposedly this is our last frost for the next ten days so spent the morning moving the unsuccessful daylily conversion attempts outside to enjoy spring. The JM's will now get to sleep outside too. My goal today was to spray some weeds but we have rain coming in tonight and tomorrow, which is needed. The weeds will still be there only bigger, more will pop up so I will save the money and spray at a later date. By noon, I expect to be able to go outside and not freeze and cut back a perennial border.

The only daylily blooming here is JERRY NETTLES, which I forgot to bring to the house to collect pollen, so back I go.

Brooke

Hey Royce, I got Ida's Magic in a trade a couple years ago. When it bloomed last year, I got two different blooms! VERY Different! If I remember correctly, the trade was a double fan, not two separate fans. So how do you explain this contrast, taken just days apart:

June 19, 2005:
{{gwi:630701}}

June 27, 2005:
{{gwi:630703}}

Is this typical of Ida or other daylilies?

I also had two different Thunder and Lightnings, both from the same division:

June 17, 2005:
{{gwi:630706}}

June 23, 2005:
{{gwi:630708}}

What's happening?

By the way, both daylilies came from the same grower. Could the oddball be from seeds that might have dropped from the mother plant?

I'm not Royce but will tell you IDA'S MAGIC is famous for not looking great when she starts to bloom. It will take her a couple of years to be her best and then she is very stable (and pretty).

I have T & L, and mine doesn't look like either one of yours but I see the similarities. Obviously having a bad hair day. Your first picture is closest to the normal bloom. Again, I expect it to settle in and be more normal.

It's possible a seed could sprout and eventually bloom in a clump but not likely. I think both were just suffering from the trauma of the move.

Brooke

I agree with Brooke that a seed sprouting is unlikely, especially since IM is a tet. I think temp can cause differences and as Brooke said, just getting settled in. I am surprised at the difference in just a week and the first one being more colorful. Mine looked slightly like your second picture the first year, but never as colorful as the first.

Thanks for the input. In browsing thru the lily auction, I saw two different IMs, both like both of mine. So I didn't feel so odd then. Can't wait to see what she looks like this year.