If it makes you feel any better, I promise not to register any daylily that I do not think is absolutely fabulous. You may not agree with me but that is ok too. It will likely be deriviative because I am using stock from the late 90s and early 00s but at least it will be Northern Hardy. Is that enough of an improvement?

Edward

Gerard - don't hang back, tell us what you really think, please. You are so shy, we need to know your deepest inner thoughts on registrations.

I guess it depends on what you consider to be different or unique. It doesn't always have to mean the face of the flower - it could be like Edward says, a northern hardy ED BROWN would be great. Being able to create a northern plant with 50 plus buds - how good would that be. How about one of your goals - rust resistant. Hopefully I won't ever need it but Royce might (he hates to spray).

I have lots of very pretty seedlings - unique, nope but I keep dabbing and hoping and looking for it. I hope I'm smart enough to recognize it.

Brooke

Okay Gerard, you are bordering madness so tell us which CRAPPY ones you are talking about!
Maybe this DIPLOID named TERRY LYNINGER will cheer you up! : ) I could never tire of looking at this one and was thrilled to see it bloom today. Of course it is one of my absolute favorites!
Nancy
{{gwi:633309}}

Gerard, I agree for the most part. Beautiful daylilies are introed by major hybridizers all the time, and I'm sure they're better than anything I could do. But they seldom seem unique enough for me to spend the mega-bucks to buy them.

Here's the exception for me. Almost everything introed by Curt Hanson appears unique to me, or at least different from most of what's out there. There is the added appeal of his being a northern hybridizer whose stuff performs well in Michigan, but I would love his stuff even if its performance in this barren wasteland was iffy.

Check out his 2005 and 2006 intros and see what you think. I would also put the Lambertson intros in a similar category, but only if you like blue.

True, true, G. I find that I get carried away sometimes with some NEW ones only to find I have another that looks very similar. On the other hand, there are some unique dls out there, you just need to find them. How hard is that?? Very !! The good ones don't just fall into our laps.
Now, any kind of improvement is a plus as Brooke said..So, it's two sides of the same coin..Ellie

Numama, thats what im talking about, thats new and different.
Highjack and Edward you also hit it on the head. I'm not speaking of finding new different ones for myself, i have no issues with that there are plenty out there. I was just venting a little about the intros that continue to flood the fields so to speak.... the intros that look like some half a@#$d attempt at breeding for no specific purpose, ryme, or reason.

Believe me when i think somethings ugly i say so, you can always count on me. Thats why i value you alls opinions so much. I love critiques and being critisized.

Im also speaking of those people who register ugly or trash DLs just to have one registered or to name it after someone close to them, i get that and all i have grandparents and would love nothing more than to memorialize them in some way, but thats why i garden... they loved it and it helps me connect to them, but i know first hand that all of the four would give me a good wack to the back of the head if i introduced something in their name and it was an inferior crap plant or bloom.

Also ill have to go back and pull some pics, but the ones that are borderline brown (mud) and they describe them as tones of blue blush chartruse with an overtone of a rusty salmon? WHAT THE? are you trying to sell this thing or what? Im starting to think thats what most of it is about (going off the deep end again) (just ate four pecan swirls and three double fudge cookies)

AND SERIOUSLY why in the heck would you pay 200-300 dollars for something that looks walks talks and smells like good ole BARBARAH MITCHELL? HUH? idiots idiots i tell you.

Hope i dont get kicked off for this.
head spinning looking for coffee.... i think i smell coffee
G

Do you think i would scare people as a garden judge?
G

Yes

I think we just need to keep the sugar and caffeine away from the boy.

Brooke

So Gerard since you are seeing so many that are crap...SPEAK UP!
We want to know which ones are CRAP! I certainly would hate buying one if someone warned me it is crap! C'mon stop holding out on us and we'll let you have your caffeine and sugar back! LOL!
BTW, I still have lots of land to fill so help us out here and save us from our DOOM!
Nancy

Gerard, my feeling on this subject is that it depends upon whether you are referring to commercial hybridizers, or those just hybridizing for fun and not selling.

I agree that too much of the commercial stuff is "filler". They are lookalikes, but people buy them, so since this is the source of their income, the commercial hybridizers continue introducing them. No, or few, new introductions = less income. They are also fillers for the collections (Buy the entire collection for $2,100 and "save" $600, etc.). I find, in most cases, only about 10% to 20% of new introductions interest me a great deal. As far as naming them after people, many people are thrilled to have a daylily named for them. In fact, one person on GW has posted a picture several times, of a daylily named for that person. Great advertising for the hybridizer.

I consider the non commercial hybridizer different. They are doing it for fun and if registering one makes it more fun for them, so be it. If they want to name a daylily for someone and the person agrees, I don't have a problem with that. Many people are thrilled to have a daylily named for them, even if we might think it is crap. I personally doubt that I will ever register a daylily. The problem I have is with getting something good and distinctive. I think some of my seedlings are fairly nice, BUT there are already similar things on the market and mine are no better.

OK ill keep the coffee.... you cant take that from me, i'm already sucking down a grande mocha frappe=about 3cups expresso type iced coffee (extra sweet and whipped cream on top) its 8:52.

On the DLs and new CVs i hate... that are CRAP! Post some ill let you know if your really asking to know what i think of them! You dont think i'd get in trouble for bad mouthing some-ones stuff on the net (is that slander) cause you know its my opinion and not necessarily truth, although if im listing the plant habits and such, and its similarities to the parents that is the truth correct?

Lets get this straight before i go shooting my mouth off and get in trouble!
G

No i understand royce,
I dont have issues with the whole naming and such.... maybe i mis-worded in my hyper-active state. The naming issue is not what i find the problem, its the latter of your thoughts the inferior quality of the intro that im upset about.

I find that that maybe the AHS should come into play more with this? Maybe im wrong and maybe im stepping out on a shakey, termite infested, and woodpecker pecked limb here, but i feel there should be strickter guidelines for new CVs being registered each year. All in all though maybe thats why they have established the extensive awards system that is ever evolving with each passing season and new introduction.

I too, each year am looking over 100's of sites catalogs and my own seedling beds trying to find something NEW and different to introduce to my garden, im 26 and hope to continue breeding DLs and grow them for the remainder of my lifetime, introducing one however is a different story. The DL would have to be so inherintly distinct, maybe rust resistant, or a 4' scape with 14" cascading curled blooms? I honestly dont know.

EXAMPLE of one that has every right to be a new introduction.
PINK STIPES
even if i wasn't interested in this plant and hadent bought it, it would not fall into the crap catagory. Its so different and unique its stands out. Granted the form leaves room for improvement, but the plant characteristics IE. vigor and increase and such make it a suitable "plant" for introduction.

MAKING SENSE? i dont know.

If i get the next couple ADs out before deadline, ill go online and locate some CRAP ive been side-stepping in a round about way in my posts.
G

Gerard, I understood (I think) the point you were making. I emphasized the naming a little, because for a commercial grower, it is advantageous. Name a daylily (sometimes a good one, sometimes crap) for someone, that person is thrilled and goes to all the daylily forums posting a picture and recommending the hybridizer. Good, free advertising. If the commercial grower does not have new introductions each year, their income takes a hit. So, put up the 20 best ones, of which 1 to 6 are perhaps deserving of registration. BUT, someone buys the others and as I said earlier, they are used as fillers in the collections to make people think they got a bargain. Also, they can be used for bonus plants and many think they got a real deal when the hybridizer includes a new registration as a bonus plant.

I agree with you that too much crap is introduced, but they are making money from it.

As for the AHS becoming stricter on what can be introduced, I disagree. Who would be the judge of what can and cannot be introduced. I am going to make a statement that will probably make my name MUD to everyone, instead of just Brooke. I do not like PINK STRIPES. If I had hybridized it, I would have composted it without even a second thought. To me, it looks freaky, like rain or thrips damaged. Obviously, many do not agree with my opinion. I have no problem with that. I realize some people have poor taste.lololol  just kidding folks.

Thats why im asking about the whole slander thing, i dont want people dragging my name through the dirt just because i said a few bad things about some CV they were in love with!

And your opinion on the AHS thing i get too, and in that same thought......
WHO AM I to say one CV is CRAP over another?
G

On the slander thing, were you around when many of us made derogatory remarks about a certain CV? The hybridizer was highly annoyed and it was not pleasant.

Nope i wasnt here for that, but i gaurantee i would have had yalls back and probably been kicked off i get pretty T'ed when people start show their true colors and attack people for voicing their opinions.

On that note ill start the crap catagory with a seedling of mine.
The plant is great, red stripes on the outer edge of the leaves, proliferations, starting to branch. The bloom however.... crap. The form is old school although huge about 8" when fully open. Its morphing though starting to pinch now, and the sepals are begining to curl more. But although the color in person is much more black than the pic here i think id be better off using as a bridge, cause its not up to my standards.... not unique enough?
G

{{gwi:632724}}

Well I for one would rather have someone's honest opinion whether it be good or bad! If you think a cultivar is crap....I wanna know why! So no trouble from me guys! So what...Royce doesn't like Pink Stripes! That's because each flower's beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My gosh, if we all liked the same things, how boring would that be?
Gerard, I agree with you on your above seedling, sounds like a good bridge plant just from what little I know about hybridizing. I WISH all DLs would proliferate!
Now, I've posted a lot of pics of my new arrivals in the discussion forum...if you've seen any that are crap....I WANT TO KNOW WHY!
Nancy

Nancy, I too would prefer honest opinions. I don't care so much with registered plants, but do with my own seedlings. If that seems odd, the reasoning is: My main interest is in hybridizing. I am very selective in what I bring in from outside sources, because of the labor involved. I want very few from outside and for specific reasons. When they bloom, I think I can be very objective in whether or not I like them. My own seedlings are another matter. It is much more difficult to be objective. Sorta the "only a parent could love it" thing. I really enjoy having someone give a critique like a teacher grading a test. I find it very helpful. Unfortunately, most people are reluctant to give a negative opinion.

I think we all realize that an opinion is just that. An opinion does not make it a fact. I find it interesting how much our opinions/tastes vary.. For example, I like those with bold eyes and edges. One of my greatest goals is to put wider edges on some of the bolder eyes. Some don't like eyes, or only subtle eyes. Some like the bagels (me) and some like the skinny ones. So, if I say I don't like Pink Stripes or the skinny ones, that is just my opinion, not a fact.

I think what Gerard was originally complaining about is that hybridizers continue to introduce daylilies that are not distinctive. For example, what is the following registered daylily?
{{gwi:633310}}

I doubt anyone can say for sure, because there are probably at least a dozen and probably more, so similar that it is nearly impossible to give a certain identity. Some do have differences such as bloom size, branching, bud count, etc., to make them different, but even after allowing for that, there are still a lot of lookalikes. So, if I understand correctly, his complaint is, why do hybridizers continue to introduce non distinctive plants. I agree.

Yes, I understand what Gerard is saying, but never really thought about it since I'm not into the hybridizing aspect of the DL world. I would like to be, but with 2 young uns and a full time job, doesn't leave me a lot of time.
I know what you mean by so many looking like each other and since I would like to hybridize in the future I've been trying to avoid buying DLs that look like each other. It is very, very hard to do! My most recent purchase was Empire Returns because I like the deep sculpting. Another recent purchase was Mrs. John Cooper because I've seen several gorgeous flowers with MJC in the parentage. I'm just winging it here and if anybody has suggestions on good ones to buy...I'd love to read about it and decide for myself.
As far as your picture of the registered cultivar above....it looks like my Unending Melody I received as a bonus plant. So what is it Royce?
Nancy
UNENDING MELODY
{{gwi:633311}}

Nancy, the picture I showed above is ALAQUA. I am showing four more below. I have owned all 5 of these and I expect there are several more similar out there. In fairness, there are fairly significant differences in some of these, that do not show in a picture. For example, Pirate's Patch has 6" blooms vs 4 1/2" for Dream Legacy.

CANADIAN BORDER PATROL
{{gwi:633312}}

DREAM LEGACY
{{gwi:633314}}

ISLESWORTH
{{gwi:633316}}

PIRATE'S PATCH
{{gwi:633317}}

Hey Royce,
WOW....Getting em all together there! That is exactly what I want to avoid! I think I've done pretty good so far as far as purchasing. I do not want to buy two that look alike! So I assume you have all those that look alike for a certain trait in each one? Or you just like that look a lot?
Nancy

Nancy, I did it out of ignorance (or stupidity). I have been told ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever. Still not sure which I have.

I just believed all the propaganda that the newer ones were better. At that time I was buying more for garden effect than hybridizing. The only one I still have is Pirate's Patch. Don't really like it that much more than others. It just happened to be at the right place when I got rid of most registered daylilies because of rust.

Hi guys, I have one of those on order but it doesen't look anything like the rest of mine. How is Islesworth as a choice?

Edward

Hi all... im finally back
I was out in the new yard pickin bricks (as crazy as that sounds.... its true) Tons and tons of them everywhere.

Well Royce, you got it man! Thats EXACTLY what i was talking about. And i see where th differences in size can come into play. Yes the same patterned flower for three years in circulation @ 4"s then improved upon by the same patterned flower @6-7"s is worth introducing. or visa-versa in the case of minies. But the same is the same is the same is the same.....ahhhhhhhhhhhhh. Especially if there are not dramatic differences in th plants, as in habit increase and otherwise. Even when looking at parentage and some of the same names come up? GEE i wonder how thats possible? THEY LOOK SO MUCH ALIKE!? are you for real? (rambling)

OK nummama, here goes. If you take a look at the posts i have made (digging a hole, should i say grave for myself) where people have posted flowers/seedlings and asked for opinions, i do always try to comment. Take a closer look and you will see a pattern. I always remark on what i think the best is of the bunch, or the best part of the flower. Nothing else. Because they are my opinions and i would hate to hurt anyones feelings. Some people might post 8 dif. blooms... i comment on one. The rest are well i think we can all guess what i think!

But in the same respect i EXPECT the same from you! On tinkers there is some-one i like alot. Rebecca. Dont know her but love her. When i post there sometimes (very seldomely) a pic of a seedling... i for the most part get ooohhhhss ahhhhhs, u know save face comments! She posts... i dont think that one is any good, all in all i looks like a composter! All i can do is laugh, but its true and its real, and upon further evaluation unless some miracle occours.... they endup in the horses mouth... my composter.

On another note, i moved some seedlings last year, one of which was an 8" flat form opened real wide like a hibiscus, looked like one to, beautiful gold with burnt orange stipling on the petals almost a bi-tone..... Its no where to be found! I could kick myself... im so sick!

well need to get back to the brick picking
and whoever posts next, ill be sure to spread the CRAP adjective pretty THICK!

G

Ahhh, Gerard, if/when I ever get to raise a seedling to bloom size and post a picture here for comments - PLEASE be yourself and be honest about the bloom. I won't take it personally, and if I've just raised some nice home-grown compost, it's better to oust it sooner than later and make room for more seedlings. On the other hand, I might just disagree with you and keep the plant, but I'll appreciate the honesty all the same.

I've noticed that after a while certain flower patterns/colors repeat a lot in catalogs, and kind of blur together in my memory. They're not distinct from each other just from a close-up photo. I suspect I'll have several "look-alikes" in the garden this year, and I might have to move/give away one or more of them if they're too similar in foliage habit &/or bloom time &/or size as well as color. I put in a bunch of warm colored yellow/gold and peach/yellow ones last year, and I can think of at least four that are similar (ordered at different times from a few places). What was I thinking? We'll see how they look and perform in the "real world" outside of a catalog photo.

When I ordered a small selection of pink daylilies and a small handful of purple/lavender ones this year I was more careful to get a distinctive variety of habit/color/bloom time in each set, since they'd be planted together by color and seen as part of a border. We'll see if I was successful in a year or two when the new clumps mature. . . .

Laurel

Edward, I intended to comment earlier and forgot. I liked Islesworth. I liked Canadian Border Patrol, Pirate's Patch and Islesworth about the same and Alaqua and Dream Legacy not as well.

Royce