Royce, I can think of at least a few of yours I'd be happy to own.

I decided to do my first pollination this morning. Hanson's WORLDS COLLIDE was blooming, so I decided it would be one parent. I stared at it and thought, "How on earth could I improve on THAT?!!!" I put my tweezers away, had my third cup of coffee and pouted. That's how I'll be hybridizing from now on.

Somehow I can't look at your beautiful flowers and see despair in the picture. "Worthy of introduction" is in the eye of the beholder, and many of the beholders here on GW have seen great beauty in your seedlings, and would be glad to purchase many of them as new intros. Don't give up! Keep the ones you like, and keep moving forward.

Laurel

P.S. "Observe how the lilies of the field grow. They do not toil nor do they spin, yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory did not clothe himself like one of these." Mt. 6:28-29 NASB

Thanks Chris and Laurel. I think what really prompted my thoughts were a post by Hugo on the Discussion side and a post by Brooke. Both have posted some beautiful seedlings and there is one, or more, from each, that I would love to have. Both have stated they are not worthy of introduction. Sadly, I agree and feel the same about mine. I think we are all running into the old "distinction" bugaboo. That is, while some are very nice, they are not an advancement on what is already available. 'Course, to be brutally honest, I think lots of things introduced by major hybridizers aren't distinctive either. I just don't see registering another lookalike.

By the way I was just kidding around with the linked picture. I am not giving up. I have said all along that it will be fun if I can just come up with some reasonably nice things. I am not really discouraged, but trying to be realistic. Hybridizing is still fun.

Chris, I know exactly what you mean about WORLDS COLLIDE. I looked at the picture of ARCTIC LACE and thought the same thing. I would love to have it, but don't have a clue on using it in hybridizing. It appears to be the "destination", rather than the "journey". I think a big part of my problem is that I still don't really have goals. Anyway, spread a little pollen. You can then join us in griping that a seedling is nice, but lacks distinctiveness.

Laurel - you saying I ought to just leave them lilies in the field????? lol (sorry, I couldn't resist).

S'okay, Royce! No offence meant, none taken. Besides, daylilies DO belong in the field - and the English border - and the cottage garden - and the display garden - and the hybridizing greenhouse - etc. etc. etc.

Laurel (treading water in Upstate NY at this hour)

Royce, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! You are FAR from being a failure!
Keep on keepin on!
What you find UNdistinctive could be destinctive to someone else!
Don't you think it's about time for some more seedling photos from you?
Nancy

I'm with you Royce - I can't find distictive or one of those famous "breaks" in my seedlings either. I have some absolutely gorgeous seedlings. I kept almost an entire cross of SHERRY LANE CARR X VICTORIAN LACE seedlings last year and they are starting to bloom. I pass SLC each day as I go to the seedling patch and when I get there I don't see one that is any better than the mama.

I am using many of the seedlings with the latest and greatest from the big time hybridizers. I keep hoping that by continually upgrading I can eventually end up with something distinct. Once the pods are collected off the seedlings, most of them will be compost.

I'm not discouraged just realistic.

Brooke

Brooke, glad you understand what I was trying to say. I had some qualms about agreeing that your seedlings were not worthy of introduction, because (1) some are beautiful and (2) I am, of course, a Southern Gentleman. Lolol

I think the EB x WNC seedling is close to introduction level and perhaps even is introduction level. It is much better than EB (IMHO). I don't have WNC. However, the problem is that there are already a lot of nice yellows out there, including WNC. Prior to the introduction of J T Davis, I think there is no question but what it would have been cutting edge and unquestionably worthy of introduction at a premium price.

When I first started, one of my internet mentors told me it would be very hard to compete with the majors, because by the time they introduce a plant, they probably already have children from it and perhaps even grandchildren. This is what I am running into. I think I have more nice yellows than anything else, but I too am running into the "too many yellows" and "no improvement over parents" thing. He also said I would have to set goals, to be successful. I still don't have very good goals, because it is hard for me to visualize improvements over all that is already out there.

I read a very interesting goal thing long ago. He said it was not necessary to set goals in the beginning and used the analogy of driving. When one is first learning to drive, it is ok to get into the car and drive without going anywhere in particular, just to learn how to drive. However, after learning to drive, one usually has goals, when driving. It might be to just drive around and look at the countryside, or go to the grocery store, but there are goals. I think I have now "learned how to drive", but don't know where I am going.

Next year, I intend to make some less obvious crosses to see what will happen. I guess that is a poor way of doing things, but when one is lost, might as well take a different road. I'm even considering repurchasing MORT'S MASTERPIECE. That is a little (well, ok, more than a little) dumb. I RU'd it when I had rust, so now I buy it back.

To those who think I am having a pity party, or seeking compliments, I'm not. I am very happy with what I am doing. Just thinking out loud. It is introspection time, while I am planning crosses for next year. I think I am almost finished deciding what to use next year.

BTW, one thought I have is that I wonder if Nancy and Gerard might be better at hybridizing, because of their artistic background. As far as the actual hybridizing I don't think it matters, but it might be a great assist in visualizing what you want to achieve. Wishing you the best and I am interested in seeing the results. 'Nuff rambling. Hope everyone has a nice day.

Royce

Of course you are a Southern Gentleman and no offense if you dislike something I think is pretty. We all know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It was fun having Janet here because many that I liked she didn't and vice versa. I guess this is why there are 50,000 daylilies registered.

My day has been nice if you consider grocery shopping and dragging hoses and putting red flags out. I'm also flagging some with a red and an orange flag. That combination means harvest pods and dispose of the plant.

I do have a few goals - it is just hard to not fall for a pretty face. I found a new blooming clump of seedlings yesterday and they were gorgeous. Last night it dawned on me it was almost identical to a Salter named AMETHYST REFLECTIONS - duh, of course I liked my plant but they beat me to it, several years ago. Darn those FL guys blooming grandchildren of their seedlings, two years ahead of me.

Where is that Gerard anyway? And where are pics of his seedlings?

Brooke

Well, Royce, I was happy to read that you really are not sad and certainly are not a loser!

I'm wondering if part of your "dissatisfaction" (for lack of a better word) is that your goal (stated or unstated) is to produce a flower that is better than the "pros". Given that some that are introduced are no finer than some of the seedlings I see various individuals showing online in various forums, perhaps that goal is not unattainable. But, it is an extremely high bar.

Why not set a lower bar, at least at first (to get satisfaction)? Such as, looking for a certain color (perhaps), certain edge (or edges), certain size, rust resistance, and certain desirable traits (high bud count, good opener, etc.). (Personally, I think an admirable goal is one where the flower doesn't take three years to settle in...I mean, we all have some flowers that bloom from the first flower beautifully...why can't we have more of those?? Maybe that's too much to hope for and too many beauties to pass by. What do I know.)

Maybe you've already attained this and I am just blabbering on! Lol! I do think it would be discouraging to think of yourself as competing with people who have the cutting edge (wherever that is going) and are now three or four generations down the road on it. In addition, I gather they also share with each other, keeping the edge further sharp.

I mean, if you had an advantage in a business, wouldn't you work to keep it? That's what I see the big boys doing. If it were as easy (as it probably was...even 10, 15 years ago) as it seems, they'd be passed by quickly.

So, okay. Now, it can be more like the lottery (to get a lucky one from a cross), which doesn't mean it can't happen...or, you can find a niche that isn't totally explored. Of course, if you find it, someone else will be right behind you...lol! Watch out!

I say, for now, decide (if you haven't) what you want. Work for it. And, when you get there, to your satisfaction...i.e., I can't make this flower any better...then rejoice! And set a new goal. Maybe work toward a line of "your" perfect flowers.

Compete with yourself. Not them. They don't really matter, anyway, if you are hybridizing for yourself (and for friends).

As in anything, there will always be someone with something better. Be that person, if you want. Just you define what is better.

Sorry if I have overstepped. I sure you already know all of this. I just thought maybe a little pep talk was in order. Your flowers and efforts and information you share are much appreciated here.

Oh yeah. One other thing before I finally exhaust (myself and anyone silly enough to read), I read where Larry Grace is back hybridizing. Surely he doesn't think everything has been explored or nothing new or different can be produced. In fact, on another forum, there were some pictures from some things he is working on. Granted, he has the ability to purchase whatever he wants (so I gather, anyway), but he's not choosing everything. There must be something to seeing in a flower new possibilities?

Now, Royce, keep on keeping on! (I am dating myself....time to slink away...)

"Well, Royce, I was happy to read that you really are not sad and certainly are not a loser! "

I didn't say I wasn't a loser. Just said I wasn't sad. Lol

GG, thanks for the "pep talk", but I think I came across in a way I did not intend. The loser link was purely a fun thing. Now, the reality: I do have some seedlings I like quite a bit. When I started, I said I would be happy if I could get seedlings that lagged the pros by 2 or 3 years. I have a few that probably accomplish that. Another way to look at it is that I will probably buy slightly less than a dozen plants (all at least 2 years old) and have been gifted 6 or 8 plants, this year. From those, plus what I already have (seedlings and registered), I hope to get 2,000 seeds next year. When they bloom, I am sure it will be a joy to stroll through the seedling patch. I do not like to get up early and one of the huge benefits of retirement is that I don't have to. When seedlings bloom, I am up at the crack of dawn, strolling through the seedling beds, even before breakfast. It doesn't matter if any are introduction quality. It is still a joy.

The point is, I don't have anything of introduction quality, but it is still tremendous fun. It would probably be arrogant anyway to think that I buy only plants introduced at least 2 years earlier and can match the professionals in 6 years.

I had heard that Larry Grace was going to return to hybridizing, but did not know he had already done so. Thanks for the info. Now, go out and do some pollen dabbing!

I'm awfully glad the "pros" don't wait for perfection to introduce new plants or we'd never have anything new to buy!

Molly D

royce, you are so funny and handsome. if you look like that, why wouldn't you post a pic for us..LOL...You poor thing. You have beautiful seedlings. It should be enough that all us dl smart EXPERTS think you are fantastic....Ellie

Well Katie....quite a pep talk and put into words well. Recyclable too!
I have no goal myself to be the next greatest or anything like that, I'm in this for the fun of it, to share with others, the pep talks, etc. Just think, making a cross, watching the pod grow, planting the seed and seeing it bloom.....just fascinates me! Like waiting for a baby....a GREAT SURPRISE to come.
My first year making crosses, so you all that are already past this stage must surely know how excited I am about what I will get....hopefully not a bunch of dogs, at least pretty enough to decorate the edge of the woods!
Nancy

"if you look like that, why wouldn't you post a pic for us.."

Cause I don't really look like that. They say beauty is just skin deep, but ugly is to the bone. Well, whut I got ain't just skin deep.

"It should be enough that all us dl smart EXPERTS think you are fantastic.."

Well, I should certainly say so. However, ya'll probably tell all the guys that. lol

Nancy, even though I have been hybridizing several years, it is still very exciting to see what is blooming each day. It sure makes getting out of bed easier.