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Winter Kill?

Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
Sat, Mar 22, 14 at 16:58

My situation is rather unique in that I grow most of my daylilies in small pots (10-12 inch). This winter did a number on many of them. Ironically I was so overwhelmed with daylilies last fall (and sick of hand watering all the pots during our droughty summer), that I gave away duplicates of some that died this winter to "needy" friends who could give them ground space....The key this year to survival was location, location, location. For years I've overwintered some of them in three more exposed sites with little to no ill effects. Not this year. Only the warmest site (west facing) seemed to do the trick.....No daylilies in ground seemed to be hurt. Our lows were down in the single digits for many many days over winter, with the lowest being 3......So any damage from this severe winter for anyone else?...........Maryl


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Winter Kill?

Maryl: Don't know yet what has survived this winter. All my garden beds are in the open with either north,east,south or west exposure.

Julia


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RE: Winter Kill?

Maryl - I suspect I have lost a half dozen evergreens and a couple of semievergreens in pots, but it's too soon to tell. When the evergreeens go dormant it takes them awhile to sprout. We've got more cold temps coming this week, so it will be mid-April before I can officially pronounce them dead. In the past, I've thought some were gonners only to have fans emerge in the middle of April. Maybe that will happen for you too.

Debra


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 9:16

Julia: It will be interesting to see how yours do when warm weather finally arrives. It was below freezing again last night here.

Debra: There are a couple of marginal ones in pots that may still pull through but by now all my daylilies have about 3 inches worth of new growth on them except for the dead ones (of course). Those were just mushy heaps of rotted plant material. I lost 2 of my 3 Pink Alohas, and hope the third will survive. I think you have it too and will be curious how it does for you.........Maryl


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I hope that people post names of plants they lost. Here, pots have to be well mulched for the winter. I too have already found plants that I lost. I lost the following, and while I suspect that they would not have thrived here anyway, they were poor plants that I received on the auction and that I should not have accepted: Shipwreck Cove and Talladega.

There are so many excellent cultivars out there that, in northern climes, one should not be wasting space and money on untested, tender southern plants. I say that, but do not always heed my own advice. I certainly appreciate posters here who note that, although they are posting a pretty picture, the plant has not grown vigorously for them.


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by ruthz 8 dfw texas (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 16:59

I think I lost a couple that I had just planted in the very late fall, but most of the ones I lose are in the summer.


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 0:26

YES! :( I have been sooooo frustrated! I had almost all of my 300 moved into 1 & 2 gallon pots last fall because we were suppossed to be moving in January when our new house was finished. I didn't want to leave them at our old house so i dug them up last fall for easy relocation. Well.....our new house STILL isn't finished, but I think I've lost over 100 plants due to rot. The ones in my front yard did fine, but in the back where there's more shade....oh my gosh...the loss is heartbreaking~ Everytime I see one that hasn't started to peep out, I give a slight tug and the entire rotted crown comes off. I'm still kicking myself for not adding perlite to the potting mix!!! I also lost prob 100 potted roses that were only hardy to zone 7, which normally would have been fine.

This winter was just so much more wet than normal and we had lows below zero for a few nights. Very unusual for here.

Oddly, it makes me feel better knowing I'm not alone...

Tammy

This post was edited by TNY78 on Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 0:29


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 14:54

Oh Tammy, you are not alone. When the green foliage started peeping out on many of my daylilies I went around to the ones that had no perceptible green showing and tugged at the leaves. 99% of the time the leaves easily broke off into my hand with the slimy ends going clear down to the crown. When I unpotted these, the roots were dark and rotted looking and the soil smelled foul. Didn't seem to matter if they were listed as D, Sev or Ev. Because of the unusual cold I can't draw any conclusions as to whether it was the cultivars problem or the weather. Green Mystique is struggling now, yet it has been in the same location for over 6 years with no problems.
Consequently I can't blame it. I think rather is was just an unusually long cold spell of single digit temperatures in our zone 7 area........Maryl


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RE: Winter Kill?

Maryl - Pink Aloha is one of mine that is not showing any top growth yet. I'm also not seeing any top growth on Jeanne Deaver's Dream, Lake Tahoe Autumn, and Bullfrog Kisses (three I just reordered from Trimmer). I love those three so much that if they do pull through, I won't mind having two clumps of those. Also missing in the pot ghetto are Lillian's Jinger Bred, Luck Be A Lady, and Spacecoast Ojo Rojo. Purple Badger and God Save the Queen were looking fine until the most recent freeze this week. What bothers me most is that I seem to have lost two of my toothy UF seedlings, and those cannot be replaced. I have another seedling planted in the ground that hasn't emerged yet either. I'm still holding out hope for some of these.

Debra


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 14:42

Jeanne Deaver's Dream was on my long list for years. That's interesting information about it. I really liked Pink Aloha last year, and along with your information, have a feeling that I may have to winter protect it more then some of the others since it is in a pot. Was yours in ground?.....I think you were fond of Lillian's Jinger Bred too weren't you?....So our last 3 winters here have been, above normal temps, normal temps, with this last winter being below normal temps. What is a girl to do?-lol.....Maryl


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 27, 14 at 22:01

Well, I went out today to check the roots on some of the questionable one....nothing good to report, unfortunetly. Every one of them was a mushy mess just like yours, Maryl :(

Maybe, at the very least, this taught us an expensive lesson about winter protection...?

Tammy


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Maryl - Pink Aloha and all the others that appear dead were in pots. It does pay to get them in the ground. I've lost some fans, but no complete plants of those that were in the ground. We've never had a winter this cold in the 26 years I've lived here.

Debra


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Just for a head's up, while I have no idea at the moment how mine have fared this winter, as they're still buried in a good bit of snow and ice, yes, the pots are the ones that will give difficulty. Try tipping the pots on their sides in fall after a good hard frost that will without question stop them for the year. Leave the pots on their sides for the entire winter, do not stand them upright until they are thawed and showing growth for the new season. It is the freeze/ thaw that gets them, especially when they get sopping wet and the ground is frozen. If they freeze, that won't hurt them, only when they are saturated. Keep them out of direct sun until new growth begins in the spring. As a poster on several other forums always comments, get them dormant, and keep them dormant! (dormant state, that is, not necessarily growth habit)


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 13:34

I agree Gardens1. Winter wet can be deadly to dormant daylily roots. Even those overwintered in my garage, where the temperature seldom dips below freezing, need only a minimum of water to keep the roots hydrated........Debra, thanks for the update on Pink Aloha. You are right that daylilies in the ground seem to withstand much more abuse then those in pots. Unfortunately I don't have the type of soil nor the space to plant more then a few stalwart cultivars. And since I've been bitten by the daylily bug, that doesn't satisfy me any more then half a cookie or one potato chip. You in particular are too much of an enabler - lol.........Maryl


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A few more here that did not make it--some tender Stamiles, Over the Mountain and Aragon. Aragon was a bonus that I knew wouldn't grow well, as it didn't do well before (weak plant with a few blooms over four years). One has to be very cautious nowadays about Stamiles.

Also Christmas in Oz and Duke of Gascone--probably not appropriate for this zone, but they were also very weak plants sent by Brown's Ferry. Duck's Dark Side doesn't look as though it will see light here either; again, I succumbed to out-of-zone pictures. Spacecoast Brazen Bandit bit the mud; it isn't even being grown anymore by Ridaught's. Maybe it doesn't even do well in the South.


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 19:56

Mantis - Uh Oh. My first venture into UF's is this year and you can just guess which variety I've bought and is due in any time now - Christmas in Oz.. I'll remember what you've said about it..........Mary's Baby, hybridized by a northerner (Norris) bit the dust this year too. Did fine last winter, but not this one. I liked it so much that I saved it during my rust attack a couple years ago (I pitched most of my other bad rusters), and how does it repay me? Up and dies on me. Still it's such a beauty and a late bloomer that I may have to try it again......Maryl


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Mary's Baby does fine here. Rust can really weaken a plant. We don't get rust here unless it is on an imported plant, but then the rust does not live through the winter. All the new plants i got from Carpenter had rust by fall of last year. You're in a much warmer climate, Maryl, so I would not be pessimistic about your new purchases. This winter was especially bad for fall-planted things, but fall planting usually works well here. Those I lost are definitely a small minority, but I am not inclined to re-try Stamile and Salter cultivars I lost, as those are questionable here anyway. Of course, Fountain of Life was lost too (an Emmerich).

One bright spot: you shouldn't have rust this year unless the plants you receive this spring have it.


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So sorry about everybody's losses. I have no idea about mine yet, only a couple show some growth. I just hope there won't be as many as last year.
If they again turn out to be expensive annuals, I don't know, probably will just enjoy those that survived and won't buy any that are $$..
Mantis, how old was your Fountain of Life?


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Tue, Apr 1, 14 at 14:31

Ironically Mantis my rust came that one year when, for the first time, I ordered from Carpenters just as you had. That was a lesson learned. Fortunately our normal winter temperatures took care of any rust that survived after my culling. From what you say about her doing well for you, I may have to try Mary's Baby again. I really, really liked her.......Maryl


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Fountain of Life was planted last fall. It was a bad year for fall planting, as we had a zone 5 winter.

Yes, one can receive plants from the south in the spring, without any sign of rust, and by August they are filled with rust.


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That's too bad about FOL. I asked b/c I just ordered one for this year.
No fall plantings for me last year, I lost almost everything planted in the fall. But still expect losses, this winter was cold-cold-cold..


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mantis: Did you get FOL from Karol or another seller?

Julia


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Julia, Fountain of Life was from Brown's Ferry. All the plants sent by BF were dried up. Didn't help that UPS took its time to deliver them. From a spring planting, F of Life will probably do okay. Rita has grown it, but she is warmer than here. Emmerichs in general can be difficult to evaluate. They usually are not widely grown, so one does not know whether scarcity means lack of vigor or lack of growers.


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Ahh, Brown's Ferry.. I ordered from them once, the plants looked so bad. All died of course.


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REALLY? Browns Ferry has always sent excellent plants and in fact some of the best growers are their intros here.
Did you all contact BF (Heidi directly) to let them know?


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I didn't. Well, it was in 2012, and it was a bad winter for my plants. It was not only theirs three that died. So what could I tell them..
Here's a pic of one of the plants right out of the box:


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The roots look good and if it is in the fall, I'd expect the foliage to be dying back. I've gotten dry roots and I, like many, just soak them for a few hours before planting. My zone though is higher than yours so maybe that is a factor too.
Too bad it died after all the work you went through to plant.


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The roots were dry too. I am more sorry about the money spent ;) But oh well..
Just returned from outside, cleaned one bed. Most probably lost - Christopher Moody (not that one! :(((, Ruffled Lemon Piping and Cat Dancer. I actually loved all three.
I also experimented with overwintering a couple in the pots (on their side) - no sign of life in either pot..


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I suspect that Brown's Ferry orders in the spring are better quality. The fall-ordered ones were not shipped according to schedule, so they spent extra time in transit. Also, the order was especially dried up, as though plants had sat around for a while--not typical of other vendors. BF seems to act as though its fall sale items are not supposed to be held to the same standards of quality. Will not order again from BF at least in the fall.


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RE: Winter Kill?

Well, I'm ready to pronounce some more dead pot dwellers. And they're not just finicky southern plants: Purple Badger (Gossard), Boiled Shrimp and Glass Bead Game (both Hansons), Annette's Magic (Rice), Mary Lightfine (Norris), and Michael Davisson and Tahiti Sweetie, (both Davissons). I don't consider any of those tender - just victims of an unusually cruel winter. Of those, I will likely replace Mary Lightfine because it is such a superb late. Maybe someday I will reacquire Michael Davisson, but it's in such short supply, it may take awhile.

Debra


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RE: even more Winter Kill?

I'm noticing some planted in the ground have taken big hits, losing half to most of the clump: Awesome Applique, Texas Blue Eyes, two of my Redefined Design X Blue Eyed Bandit seedlings, and my red eyed Fred Manning seedling. I believe all of these suffered because of frost heave.

Debra

This post was edited by shive on Sun, Apr 13, 14 at 10:01


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Oh, that's a lot, Debra :(
What exactly is frost heave if you have time to explain, please?


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Debra: I was going to ask about the post with Purple Badger if they were in pots and saw your second post so I am assuming they were all in pots. Too bad to lose so many.

nat4b: Frost heave is caused from water saturated ground that freezes and the ice caused from the frozen water begins to thaw from below soil to the top and causes the soil and plants to push up exposing the plant roots. Best way I know to explain it.


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We in Michigan had quite a lot of snow cover this year as well as frigid temps. I had potted around 15 daylilies in mid August if I remember correctly. The majority of them were seedlings that had been started that year. I used my own garden soil when I potted them up. In October I burried the pots an inch from the rim into the veggie garden and surrounded them with leaves or straw for insulation. I also overwintered peonies, lobelia, phlox, and spring bulbs. I only lost one plant, and I cannot even remember what it is :) All of my daylilies in pots and in the garden beds survived just fine. The snow cover really helps ( it is the one positive I can come up with for that much snow!). I feel for all of you who have loss. It is a hard to lose beloved plants!


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Julia _ Yes, pot dwellers are those in pots. All told I have lost 25-35 in pots. But I have close to 50 that did survive in pots. The good news is I have plenty of pots for new arrivals.


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  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 13, 14 at 2:54

That's interesting Debra about Mary Lightfine. It's a parent to one of my favorite purples, "Mary's Baby" which as I already reported, bit the dust this overly cold winter. Coral Majority on the other hand, another Norris intro, didn't seem to be bothered at all. I guess northern hybridizers don't necessarily breed only winter hardy daylilies.....Someone complained about Stamilie's doing horribly, and while I did loose some and others are still struggling, Citrix surprised me by doing well, along with Rose Masterpiece (an essential daylily in my book). So you can't always go by the location of the hybridizer......Maryl


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Sorry to hear about everyone's losses. Everything's so late coming up this year that I've only noticed a few that I suspect might be goners, one of which is Pink Aloha. I haven't been able to see that one bloom here yet, so I hope it's just late waking from the cold temps.


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I too lost Glass Bead Game. Debra, is it worth replacing?


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Glass Bead Game was a very good performer for me, even growing in a pot. However, I probably won't be replacing it because of lack of space.My goal is to have none growing in pots.

Debra


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Wow! I haven't been on here in a while, I was sorry to hear about all the winter losses. It is so heart-breaking to lose a well loved plant. I am still waiting to see if the armadillo attack (in an area of favorites , of course killed any in-ground favorites. Some of them are late to erupt, so won't know for a while yet.

We had a fierce winter and a long one for my part of the world. My peonies loved it and have more blooms than ever before; even the ones that badly need to be moved. I may have lost my treasured Duranta, won't know for a while.

Of course my bridal wreath spirea was covered in buds, and we got another late frost which denuded them. Every year it seems! I'm tempted to pull them up and burn them.

I had gotten a lot of fall deliveries and didn't get most of them planted. I felt like an over-protective parent because when the intense cold was forecast, I moved them into the greenhouse. Although the window blew open and my heater "died " resulting in the loss of my 25 foot stephanotis vine and three coffee plants I had babied for 6 years, none of the plants in the daylily or rose pots died. I don't know yet about in ground plants, since I have not spent enough time in the garden to find out.

Mantis, Brazen Bandit has been a wonderful plant here and a very strong grower. I am so sorry you did not have luck with it.

Debra, I am sick that you lost those beautiful seedlings. I had hopes of buying one of them.

Maryl, at least any rust is a thing of the past in your garden. Nate, I am sorry. Gardening isn't for sissies, is it? Julia are you doing better with the shoulder? I'm still having therapy for mine, but it is finally a bit improved.


kay


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Correction: Glass Bead Game survived, but Viva Pinata and God Save the Queen did not, along with Calamity Jane.


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I am sad to report that VICTORIAN LACE survived. I was hoping it would die off this year but nope, it survived. I can't just dig and throw away so another year I will have to tend to it.


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  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 2:29

LOL Julia. I know how you feel. There are some daylililes I'm not overly fond of, but they perform well and I just can't pitch them. This winter though I am guilt free as a few of them bit the dust....Victorian Lace so I hear has rust issues, so I've never been tempted.........Maryl


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Funny, Maryl. I'm in the deep south, and Victorian Lace has never had rust issues here. I am hoping that this bear of a winter took care of any rust issues. It sure played havoc on roses. I never have had to do any particular winter protecting issues, and so didn't even think about it. It may be that some will come back from the roots since they are own root, but had big hits on them.


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Worst year for rose damage here in decades.


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Sorry to hear about the rose damage. I lost two huge clumps of Becky Shasta daisies that I've had for more than a dozen years.A fraction of a third clump has survived.

Debra


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  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 17:10

Same here with the roses Maryl. Basically all of my teas and chinas didn't make it; even the ones that had been in the ground for a number of years. The good things is, I was trying to figure which to dig up and relocate to our new house this summer, and that decision has now been made for me.....

Tammy


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  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 19, 14 at 2:43

For some reason my roses have not been as bad as I would have expected given our lows this past winter. That's not to say there hasn't been more damage then normal, but none were killed down to the crown or anything. Of course, this past Tuesday, after temps shot up to 89, we dropped down to hard freeze territory (28). NOW, that did do some damage to the tender new rose growth. Didn't bother the daylilies though....My Becky daisies, with which I have a love hate relationship because of their need for frequent dividing, seemed to survive just fine. Really it was just my pot daylilies that suffered the most............Maryl


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I had only two daylilies in pots (but many hostas) that I didn't get around to planting last year. I just checked them today and I see green. They are 'Primal Scream' and 'Blueberry Candy'. I don't know about the hostas, some had ice on top of the pots so I'm worried they didn't survive. I had all of the pots underneath a tarp, but somehow moisture still got under there and a few of my pots had collected water and ice. Probably from the snow that was piled on top of them and the melt. Most of the daylilies in the ground look like they did fine, bit I'm concerned about 'Robes For The Queen'. When I cleaned the bed a couple weeks ago, maybe it was one week, whenever, it had remnants of fans, but now nothing. 'Bloodfire' next to it isn't looking so hot either (neither is 'Barn Owl', but that one has never done well for me and these other two had), but there is one fan still alive and I see some green down in the soil at the crown, so it may be okay. RFTQ, though. Ugh! I hope it comes back. It's one of my favorites. The toothy cultivars don't seem to like me.

Karen


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Today I uncovered the pots on the patio and found that DESPERADO LOVE is mush. Too bad as I like the bloom on that one but it was a freebie so no money loss. I wish now I had gotten it in the ground last fall but things didn't work out. A couple of others didn't make it either but surprisingly some of the seedlings are already coming up.
The gnats are horrible here outside or at least I think they are gnats. They fly in swarms in just certain areas. Gave up working outside.
Julia

This post was edited by juliany on Mon, Apr 21, 14 at 7:19


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RE: Winter Kill?

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Mon, Apr 21, 14 at 20:58

Those Gnats btw, like to lay their eggs in any mush near the crown of the daylilies that are struggling. Then the larvae will eat into the decaying crown, killing it for sure. In spring I pull off any dead or dampish foliage that's close to the crown so that the gnats can't lay their eggs in it. The Gnats seem to prefer the potted plants and I've not seen this type of problem with those in the ground..........Sorry to hear about your Desparado Love. The picture shows it as a beauty even if it was a freebie....Now is the time we all make decisions on whether to replace the "goners" or not. I just couldn't stand it and ordered another Mary's Baby (I like it that much) on the theory that if you haven't had a plant die on you twice, you're not a real gardener - lol..........Maryl


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Well it looks like WAXEN SPLENDOR is not revisiting me this year. It should have shown something by now. Sad as I was looking forward to that one since I only planted it last spring and don't remember it blooming. Darn.

Julia


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A few of the ones I thought were gonners have finally put up fans: Hologram, Violet Tranquility, Blue Corn Moon, and Blazing Saddles.

Debra


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I just dug up WS and the roots look good so I'm going to clean off all the dirt and see what the crown looks like but I don't give it much hope.:-(

Julia


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  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Fri, May 9, 14 at 18:55

I had a fan of Santa's Little helper rot out the other day after I thought it had survived in tact. Fortunately it has 3 more fans in the pot that I hope take off. I couldn't be without this fabulous red, so ordered another one just to be on the safe side.......I'm sorry to hear about Waxen Splendor. In the past I've had some with good roots but the crown rotted, and after trying to save them I concluded that if the crown is gone so is the plant, regardless of the roots. Again, I grow in pots so mileage may vary....I'm glad you are keeping us updated Debra. You know how your pictures enable the rest of us and it's good information to have from you........Maryl


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