Please...I invite you to live vicariously through me:

Lavender Illusion with Brocaded Gown pal:

{{gwi:679521}}

Numama, mulch decomposes or composts, there may well have been hot spots. When you have dead organics and moisture, it will decompose, or compost. I'm just offering up a possability. That mulch might have gotten hot enough.

"Tammy is right.. If the plants were weak prior to winter setting in, the seller should have been contacted then. Any reasonable or reliable seller would replace problem plants or offer a refund like Tammy stated."

dayliliesrus, that was me; I was the one who said you could contact a seller if you didn't like the look of your newly received daylilies. Last fall, I won a daylily from someone I'd never bought from before....I'd wanted this daylily, and she was offering a SF for a great price. (What's that expression....? If it seems too good to be true....) I needed a microscope to see where among the newspapers the fan was LOL. My cost was all of $11 (maybe less than that), and I was busy -- didn't want to contact her -- so I planted it. It's up, but really struggling, and I don't think it's going to make it. But does that mean I should expect the seller to replace it? Answer: No. No, no, no! I had the option of returning the box when I got it. But I didn't.

"I do not believe too many people are blaming Tammy & Nancy. Losses occur all the time!!"

No one is blaming anyone! Not at all! Tammy commented that she's been overwintering daylilies in pots for three years. I've been doing it for a bit longer than that, and I think I still have a LOT to figure out. This is about learning, and (unfortunately) learning from your and others' mistakes.

Not many people really have this luxury but a valued daylily grower that means the world to me offered up this piece of advice... When preparing a new bed and adding amendments let the bed sit for SIX MONTHS before planting. That gives the amendments time to break now and cook to do the things they were designed to do. I have yet to do it but I intend to do it when we clear off our land in TN and I decide where to plant. I will prepare the soil with amendments in the fall and sit until spring when I will begin moving my plants. I am going to try to move all 2000+ but I bet I will be changing my mind..LOL.. I do not want to take any chances when transplanting that many!!!

Thank you for your responses. I was curious as to what the AHS is expected to do because I have several of their publications and they do address crown rot. There is at least one page, albeit a rather short one, about daylily rots on the AHS web site too.

An AHS book I have contains two whole pages describing different kinds of rots and what to do to avoid and treat them and An Illustrated Guide to Daylilies writes "Crown (and root) rots are the most serious diseases of daylilies because the entire plant, even entire clumps, can be killed. Consequently, rots have been studied more than most daylily problems. Several kinds of rot-related fungi and bacteria have been found in various samples of rotting daylilies. However, in a study attempting to inflict rot by inoculating with some of these, no rot occurred. The conclusion reached was that other contributing factors are involved. One factor may be differences in susceptibility of various cultivars. Climate is a factor. Rot is most prevalent in hot weather, in warm climates, and sometimes in greenhouses. Proof of the role(s) of these various organisms and the environmental, cultural and genetic factors will require considerably more experimentation. The potential role of nematodes deserves more attention." This goes on for another several paragraphs. The older AHS Beginner's Handbook from 1991 says more or less the same.

I wonder what more they can do if people don't even read what's already out there.

This is from the AHS's web site "Disease causing organisms (pathogens) and environmental conditions all play a role in crown and root rots of plants. Daylilies are susceptible to fungal rots caused by organisms such as Fusarium, Phytophthora, Sclerotium, Rhizoctonia and Pythium, as well as bacterial soft rot involving Erwinia. Very recently (2004) daylilies have been discovered susceptible to Armillaria, or shoestring root rot. Symptoms of rotting can include poor growth, wilting, yellowing of leaves, obviously mushy tissue and death of the plant. Bacterial soft rot is well known for its particularly foul smell.

Overwatering, overfertililization and other poor soil conditions and plant stresses favour rot diseases. While fungal pathogens can invade intact plant tissue, bacteria can only infect through existing openings such as an injury from garden tools, pests, other diseases, frost damage etc.

In gardens where daylily rot is frequent, assistance in diagnosing the cause can be obtained by submitting a diseased plant to a diagnostic laboratory. Contact your local Master Gardeners or Extension Office for information on where to send a specimen."

To add to what I said earlier about the diagnosis of poor soil conditions by a plant pathologist, it was not poor in the sense of low fertility but poor in drainage and aeration.

I AM relatively new to daylilies, and if you could see the look of horror on my face as I started to read this thread, you might agree that those of us just beginning in DLs might be terrified by losses like those reported. Last year I decided to change all of my gardens over to mainly daylilies and spent all of my spare time since making that happen.
I have one order coming and a few others almost finished, and all of them I was planning to pot up. I was giddy in my new-found daylily love, but now I am putting on the brakes and wondering what I am getting in to...

First of all, I really do appreciate all of you who have posted and for your honesty, and for offering your helpful suggestions. And I am most sincerely sorry for those of you who lost so many.

I am trying to sort through all of this information. There seems to be huge differences between Northern and Southern issues. Overwintering in pots, mulch, some newer varieties, all seem to have significance.

One thing I am confused about is that Nancy, who lost so many, stated that several sellers have contacted her with similar losses. So what does that mean? Nancy, were they in your area? Did you buy from them? Maybe that will help you determine if it was weather related or disease realated or something else.

Just a little personal note, I live in the Pacific Northwest, very north, but Zone 8, and I have mostly older cultivars and have lost none. I also overwintered quite a few in pots, from 1-3 gallons, no mulch, placed on a covered porch, but when the temps dropped I moved them up
against the house and covered them with blankets. All survived. Maybe it was just beginner's luck. I have been lured by the amazing beauties found on the internet, due largely to the fact that my local nurseries carry very few varieties. But after joining the AHS, I have found other sources in my region, and I am currently researching the varieties they sell. I think I will stick with them from now on.

Keep your thoughts coming, I will keep sifting through this and try not to panic.
Thanks, Sharon

So, is their a solution to the AHS political problems I bring up? I say there are dozens of solutions, just as there are solutions to our government politics. Don't you think scholars have had great ideas and spoke out with political truth all along in the last thousand years? And don't you think that truth was suppressed? The enemy of political societies is truth. Controlling perpectives is how you maintain control, and that is done by manipulating truth.

So, what is one idea of how we can improve the AHS? The same way we can improve our government. Instead of the society adminstrators voting and choosing topics to vote on, why not have them be the only society members who do not vote??? Is that not exactly what we should be doing? Does that hold them accountable to a small degree?

Or, as americans, do we maintain the defintion of an American by the fact that we refuse to move forward, and would rather keep societies in power...or is it that we really don't care unless it affects us directly? Are lawsuits the only mechanism by which truth has a function? Or is that truth an illusion as well? Will anyone stand up with me without being forced to, or is personal sacrifice something that American s no longer do?

Imagine a picture of George Washington, distinguished and profound looking...being squashed by a Monty Python foot. Welcome to America.

So, what happens when a society and its administrators are left unaccountable? Let's look at the society of U. S. congressmen as an example. Yes, it is a society that is unaccountable. Did you get that email that said that a certain % of Congress has been convicted of spousal abuse, a % has completed a bankrupcty just prior to the law change, a large % cannot get a credit card due to bad credit, and a % has driven a corporation into the ground not at their expense? And that they just passed a law that says Congressmen get a $15k monthly pension after serving just one term? That is what happens when a society is unaccountable. Do you approve of that law? A scholar might get out a dictionary and look up the word "criminal".

hmmm, $15,000 a month for life. If I were a courtroom judge, I think I would serve up 15 years for that one, not 15K. Let congressmen serve 15 years in the penn after one term.

Simplton....
The thread is about Daylilies...and Daylily Losses.....lets stick to that...TMI....

Thanks, Rick

abbydales, Welcome to the forum. I must say that I hope you are not discouraged from growing daylilies in any way due to this thread. They can still be the gorgeous, relatively easy plants that they were meant to be. But growing them in pots can be tricky. If you plunk them in the garden, I don't think you need to worry (and especially in zone 8 :)
Tammy

simplton, I've been reading your comments about crown rot with interest, as I know I don't know enough about it. You clearly have a lot of experience with daylilies, and a lot of knowledge. I would like to hear more so that I can benefit from that. But -- with respect -- I think your last set of comments have wandered far off course. I believe there's somewhere on this site for OT discussions, isn't there?

I disagree that I am offcourse, but I do agree there is a place...

I am done going on tangents because I illustrated my point exactly right on the money. That is what I was doing, illustrating a point that the AHS can be "fixed", and needs "fixing". The parallel is blatantly there for all to see, so there is no need to discuss politics anymore. No one can respond with anything worthwhile that can deny that picture I have painted. I am on my own, as I always have been, and nothing will change, but it is necessary for me to at least offer a solution that no one can deny. Take the voting power away from the problem and give it to the people, and thus giving the power to the people. Wow, such a simple concept, yet, staggering restructuring of the society would result. Problems would be solved as the majority saw fit, and we would all have a role in moving forward. Progress is a fitting descriptive word wouldn't you say? On one could deny the evolution that would lead to success for all, rather than success for the elite.

lynxe - daniel of zone 5 wrote verbatim the recommendations for anyone experiencing crown rot. First and foremost, you must get help in determining which kind of crown rot and then determine what the proper procedure/remedies would be involved for the crown rot you are experiencing. Many things including growing conditions, can lead to rot and only the person experiencing it can begin the process. I can't sit here in KY and tell you why you (I'm not singling you out, it is a general you) have it.

I wonder how many future daylily growers we have discouraged with this thread? I wonder how many future members of the AHS we have discouraged with this thread? They truly are a rather carefree plant. If they are experienced gardeners then I'm sure they have experienced losses of other plant material for no explainable reason. This thread caught fire when two people lost huge amounts of recently purchased plants. Hopefully the other plants they purchased will grow and flourish.

Brooke

Brooke, and all others that have responded,

You wonder how many potential growers that may be put off by this thread. Well, I am not put off as of yet, but I am approaching this extremely leery. I convinced my wife to let me do my thing with 70 plants which will be delivered the first week of May. Mind you, she is not enthralled with DL's at all. But I convinced her to let me have 3 years to get everything well established.

I see lots of growers alluding to do one thing or the other, but, I see nothing that would point a new person in the right direction either. Y'all talk of pine bark mulch, well, up here in Chicago, I've never seen such a thing. Whats a good replacement/substitute? Y'all talk bout growing these in pots, 2 gal, or 3 gal, or even 5 gal. Overwinter, on the back porch with no cover or protection. Some of ya even had pictures to prove what you are doing. That is just fantastic. But.... Whats in the pot? What are these people doing to be able to do that? Milorgaite, Miracle Gro soil...... what additions??? what to avoid???

It seems as if some, not all mind you think that this information is a top secret. Y'all can help us but please give us details.

I've not yet begun to pay my dues to the DL's trials and tribulations. But if I can take away enough information to be able to do this, I may end up being able to prolong the life of my daylily beds past this 3 year period I so cautiously negotiated with MLW.

Sorry for the small rant, I'll just go quietly back into the recesses and try and continue to learn from those who have gone before.

Roger

Brooke, why do members of this forum come back each and every year with that same approach, after each and every year those same common and typical losses occur? Well, common and typical is not fair, but they do happen every year, with the same response. This has been happening for 15-20 years, yet nothing has changed other than my approach. I found it nice that someone mentioned the articles written so long ago that they can be classified as artifacts. How does it feel to fit in so nicely into the society? Yes, that is a VERY fair question.

With the losses that are made public, I say there are ten or twenty...if not fifty that are not public. Thanks for serving up the society response so that everyone can see it.

I think a big problem for colder zones is that you need to stick with dormants, and venture into SEVs and EVs with caution. Is that unfair to the society? Does that limit the sales of non-dormants. I wonder why no one has said that right off the bat. Were those potted plant pics dormants? They sure look like it in the pics. I get losses in pots with tender evergreens if I don't protect them here in Texas. Why doesn't that term get used...tender evergreens. That is a very commonly used term.

It would be so righteous for the AHS to produce a manual that provides all of the necessary info, and that could have been done 25 years ago. It would be so unfair to the controlling elites, as it may reduce some Ev and SEV sales. Each and every year people ask the same questions over and over, and little good information is passed on in a complete manner. No one wants to assume any responsibility it seems. No one wants to reply to anything I say. Why? Because ingoring me has worked for a long time. Self promotion has worked for a long time. I call it misdirection...when casual noninformation is given. Similar to the misdirection government administrators serve up to avoid responsibility. Dang, there I go again...sorry! It's hard to not draw parallels.

Sharon,

My daughter lives in Olympia. When she moved into her new house 3 1/2 years ago, she wanted a lot of flowers. My mom (in Indiana), sister (in Kentucky), and I (in Illinois) gave and sent her a lot of plants. Lots of perennials. Needless to say, the tall bearded iris never had it so good as in her yard. Wish mine grew like hers. Some tiny asiatic lily bulbs (when she planted them) have about taken over (they are very pretty) and add a lot of color for her.
Last but not least the many cultivars of daylilies that we sent are doing great. I've a great pix of our 2 year old granddaughter smelling Lady Neva. Our daughter said just last week that her Hudson Valley foliage is about 2 1/2 feet tall. She is seeing scapes on some of her daylilies. She has mostly older cultivars about 10-20 years old, but I don't think she has one that hasn't done well for her. She loves her Hudson Valley, but her all time favorite is still Stella D Oro. She has it all over her yard and it blooms til frost for her. Her neighbors have said they want a yard like Katie's. Most folks have never seen the diverse types and colors of iris and daylilies that she has.
My point is, you have a great environment for daylilies--the only problem maybe some cool days when some don't open well. I think you new additions will do fine.

Beth

"I wonder how many future daylily growers we have discouraged with this thread? I wonder how many future members of the AHS we have discouraged with this thread? They truly are a rather carefree plant. If they are experienced gardeners then I'm sure they have experienced losses of other plant material for no explainable reason. This thread caught fire when two people lost huge amounts of recently purchased plants. Hopefully the other plants they purchased will grow and flourish."

Brooke, people shouldn't be discouraged -- there's nothing here that should discourage anyone IMO! Note that much of the discussion of problems and losses has focused on losses in daylilies OVERWINTERED IN POTS. Most people do not keep daylilies in pots, so much of whatever might potentially be discouraging shouldn't be an issue for most people.

Roger, Brooke is right when she says daylilies are really rather carefree plants. I said the same thing myself.

In my first comment in this thread, I noted that lots of different issues were being addressed, and that that could cause some confusion. Perhaps that's what's happening here. In fact, I must shoulder part of the blame for that -- even as I was responding to the comments of the two people with high losses by describing my own experiences with daylilies in pots, it occurred to me that I really should have started a separate thread. But I was in a real rush, and I didn't do it. :(

Roger (and other leery readers): Daylilies are wonderful, hardy plants that can take A LOT of abuse. Don't be nervous about your new venture. If you could see how little I do to my daylilies, you'd be amazed they flourish at all.

For the record, I plant directly in the ground (have never even tried them in pots), give them a good soaking, make sure they have plenty of sunlight AND THAT'S ABOUT IT! If they're lucky, they get mulch (pine bark or cypress bark). If I have to choose which plants get mulch, I give it to the evergreens so for that reason alone I try to keep the evergreens grouped together. I'm in Michigan, and I've only lost one or two evergreens. But if I'm spending more money on a daylily, I usually spend it on a dormant or sev.

This thread tends to deal with the "worst case scenario" -- losing your daylily to rot of some kind. I've lost only one daylily to rot, and the seller told me mine was not the first.

So go with your new hobby! If daylilies were truly a heartbreak to grow, this would not be such a popular forum.

Chris

Boy, this thread has really taken a 90!
A couple of comments and then I really can't afford to say any more.
pot ghetto! too funny cava!
Daniel, I hope you are not serious when you say that is about all the AHS can or should say about crown rot. Not even suggestions for treatment or prevention? Only generalities for causes?
How about a real time AHS forum dealing with daylily issues, just like this one?
Lastly, I love my daylilies! I have lots of them and willingly put up with their shortcomings. There's one just right for everyone! They may not be the perfect perennial, as someone might try to sell you, but they're pretty close. They also have as much potential to improve as to decline.
Ed

It is only fair that I complete my involvement with this post, as I do not want to help keep it at the top anymore. Before I go, I need to clarify that I do not hold any anger or resentment towards individuals. I accept that I go too far, but I will not hesitate to do it again if I feel inclined. I am not afraid of anything. I have taken on david and goliath issues that are 1000 times greater than this and lost just as severely.

I know I sound as if I am blaming, but I am only using my limited abilities to stress my point. How would you go about this matter, knowing that you will crash and burn, and make any less effort. It is either a shut-up or die situation. I choose to die trying.

I make ugly accusations. I feel it the same way you do. I am the fool. I have known that a long time. As long as I am around, you can count on me being that same fool. I got to say a few things without being banned or shut up. It only lasted a few days so you will get over it.

Till next time, I will be glad to answer any questions about things I know something about. I always want to help, but only a few want help and it is not a good idea to publicly ask for it. So, tuffhem@charter.net is my email.

Thank you for being so patient this time around. I was given much more respect than ever before.

Well, I for one have really found this thread interesting. Nowhere have I read until NOW that it not wise to grow in pots! For years I've always potted them up to keep them out of my main gardens in order to avoid rust spreading through my gardens. There have been years were I lost NONE and other times, one or two. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE DAYLILIES and had I known it was so risky to grow in pots I doubt I would have bought so many last year! I did however, order the big 3 gallon pots with suggestions from friends. Like I said earlier in this post, I have approx. 500 out there in the pots minus 130 of them now. Not all of these were the latest and greatest either! I do not expect to replace them all, but the ones that guarantee for a year no matter what, of course I'm going to have those replaced. Another seller sent my order on after I asked they be held until spring. He apologized and said they would be replaced if lost so NO I'M NOT TRYING TO PLACE BLAME on the grower! I will also be contacting growers that I expressed concerns with last fall. As Ellie posted above these did not have smell of rot, there just wasn't anything there and still isn't. As far as receiving puny plants.....I guess I'm just too nice to say anything....as long as they were not pencil thin and were green I figured being such a hardy plant, they would be okay.....guess not....LIVE AND LEARN......but SHAME on those sellers for even THINKING about shipping stuff like that! As far as sellers contacting me about losses....Sorry, I didn't ask how many or get in depth with them, just accepted my refund.
Wade.....we need more people like you that aren't afraid to speak up!
What a boring world this would be if we all didn't have our own opinions!
Nancy

Ed - As I said in post #1035 (or so it seems) if you can identify what type of rot you are dealing with, there are usually chemical treatments to hopefully save the plant. Having it diagnosed to find out exactly which rot it is the key. Your County Extension Agent will do this for you and also recommend treatment.

If I were a mathmatical whiz, it would be interesting to see what percentage of losses everyone incurred this past winter regardless of how they were planted. Last spring I brought in 20 something new plants and I have six no shows this year. Even more interesting, two of the no shows were from a zone colder and three are from my zone - in fact about 20 minutes from my house. It does make one scratch their head in puzzlement.

Brooke

What I said was "An AHS book I have contains two whole pages describing different kinds of rots and what to do to avoid and treat them" and that the Illustrated Guide goes on for several more paragraphs beyond what I quoted, xokientx. I cannot type all of it in here or I'd be infringing copyright :-)

The chapter in the AHS book is written by two plant pathologists who explain the different growing conditions that contribute to the different kinds of rot and say what can be done to avoid and treat them.

What I see as being missed here (except by Brooke!) is that different rot diseases have different factors that contribute to them. The fungicide recommended is different for each specific rot disease. One single product doesn't fit them all so you need to know which you have. Too, that only applies to the rots caused by fungi and not to the bacterial soft rot or insect induced rot for which the treatments again would be different.

Even though the book chapter goes into detail about the various rots most people will not know which rot they have or even if what they have is rot or just a plant that died from another cause.

I believe that would be why the AHS web site recommends getting a professional diagnosis so that you know exactly what you're dealing with.

Can you or Simplton explain to us all how to tell the difference between rhizoctonia rots and phytophthora rots? And how to know if a plant died of a rot disease or just died and started to decompose as all organic things do?

I'm not the AHS's biggest fan but this particular issue is not nearly as straightforward as something like rust and I'm just not sure what else they can do. Members can make suggestions for improvement from within and I guess it depends on your viewpoint. Is the AHS's mission to educate about daylilies specificially or about gardening in general?

Ok, I will answer some questions, and stay away from the AHS topic. For the last ten years, in my experience, when a rot issue comes up, your type of question gets asked. That type of question is always asked by someone who does not experience rot and is not in a rot zone. It is also a question that does not really have any merit to those of us who have had rot.

Having someone diagnose, or getting a definitive answer to what or why may seem like a good thing to do when you don't know what is going on. For the hundreds of us in Texas who have had rot, we have already been through that many years ago and it is old news...rotted news. The texts are also old news. The new news is that we, the experienced, keep on asking for some truth, but that truth is very ugly. I told the story, and the people in Texas know it to be true, even though it is not worth fighting for anymore. We have the answers that you do not have. We are several chapters ahead of you.

Fungal rot is the one that is our nemesis. Bacterial rot is for those who are killing plants. It is not a problem. Weak genetics are the problem, and if you suffer losses due to overwintering, well, at least you can learn from that. Our rot losses are a huge looming shadow over us that will never go away. Rust has helped us tremendously, and is actually the only help we have had. Imagine how you would feel if, for twenty years, you got the run around, were told you are to blame, and that rot does not exist. To top it off, who says those things the most? Those who don't know anything about rot. If everyone had the experiences we have had, I think it would be a little different.

Many people in Texas want to remain in good graces with the elites. Eat rot...that describes the matter. In rot zones, it is my opinion that when I speak up, I have had a following in the past. Now, it is hard to get anyone excited. Even I am old news.

For the most part my losses have been my own fault. I planted a few single fans too late in the season and I may have not planted them deep enough. Frost heave did a few of them in and a couple went from some sort of rot. I am sticking to spring planting from now on and double fans if I can help it.

Edward

Hello all, I've got a few cents to add:

About newer daylily enthusiasts being discouraged by this thread: No, I'm not scared, and I hope others won't be either. But this thread has been a great learning experience, and a bit of a caution to really be aware of the issues in daylily culture around the country. I think we've all gone through a few phases in our interest in daylilies. Often the first phase is something like LOVE - the beginning daylily infatuation doesn't always inspect all the facts before leaping into purchasing whatever catches our eye. In this case, knowledge and wisdom have to play catch-up after the plants are in the ground. New enthusiasts can have a steep learning curve to climb.

When I first started buying daylilies, I was careful to stick with dormants or semievergreens instead of evergreens (once I understood the differences). My area can vary WIDELY in winter conditions, and I've had losses in other genera before I encountered daylilies, so I was already aware of needing to stick to my zone's built-in restrictions. Right now I've got only two evergreens that I can think of, and they both have returned this year, but I'm VERY wary of planting a lot of evergreens until I get more experience with them. These two are my "canaries in the coal mine" to see if investing in some evergreens in my zone/climate is worth the money, or a waste of time, or somewhere in between.

If this thread is taken as a tutorial of sorts, no one should give up on growing daylilies in whatever quantity their interest or bank account indicates. Maybe this thread will inspire MORE people to hybridize, to improve the species by selecting for hardier/healthier plants again, or for plants that are perfectly suited to their own region (and forthrightly labeled as such, if they're to be sold). There's NOTHING wrong with southern growers growing amazing evergreen plants for their region. But those of us up north shouldn't expect the same garden performance from those plants, just like southern gardeners have to be wary of hard dormant northern plants. If you're willing to take the time and energy to try to obtain the same results with a plant that isn't ideally suited to your climate, go for it. That's part of a hobby: taking chances, pushing the envelope. But not every plant can be pushed or cajoled into optimum performance outside it's genetically ingrained preferences for soil/climate. Losses will happen, even to plants that should LOVE our particular gardens, and we might never know why a particular plant died, and the one in the next pot from the same seller thrived.

I really appreciate it when a hybridizer is up front about a plant's hardiness and overall foliage habit, as well as the glories of the flowers. I'm planting a garden with many daylilies to be seen in groups and at a distance, to survive and thrive in MY yard, not a gallery exhibit meant to be viewed in one closeup flower photo at a time. (And I do love a really good flower photo - albums and catalogs are a great starting point in getting interested in a plant, but they're not always forthcoming about the "big picture" for each plant. It's like those online dating sites: a picture and a paragraph are never the whole story!)

I don't think most large-scale hybridizers are deceiving their customers about the hardiness or health of their plants. BUT, we need to be educated consumers. And, if enough people get fed up with receiving weak, disease-susceptible, poor-performing plants, there will be a serious "adjustment" to the daylily market, and the hybridizers will have to follow the consumers, and not the other way around.

I hope I haven't muddied the waters further, or stepped on too many toes. . . .

Laurel

It is sad when anyone has dl's losses. Here in my zone5 Nova Scotia zone I cannot overwinter in pots as we have wind-chill factors up to -35C. The plastic simply transfers and seems to intesify the cold...so here it's a no-no. I use a friends advice when buying by looking at the plants parents, Dor, Ev or semi-evergreen. I'm not afraid to take a chance with an iffy IF I plan to cross it on a favourite dormant....but I do grow the tenders on an east-side location....I find the first winter is critical but plants die...that's nature...I just try to leave the very tenders alone knowing they may grow but not thrive here-big difference. ALso local growers and growers in other zone 5's are very helpful with passing info [it's free] about how a particular plant performs here...very informative thread...cheers, lloyd

Simplton, you are so funny ROFL. First off I do not belong to AHS, I hate going to meetings and stuff, in fact being retired now, I hate going most anywhere. I CANNOT possiby imagine why my lilies rotted after receiving them in the hottest part of summer and then potting them up and probably killing them with love (too much water). It is too DAMN hot in Texas for humans and dogs much less newly arrived plants that have been in boxes for days. Plus they are shipped bare root. DANG if I went for days without water I would be stressed too!!! SO I agree about newer daylilies probably not being as hardy as older and proven varieties, but loving the new fancy stuff I guess I'm stuck with a little more work. You really have to love your garden here in the Lone Star State, because you will work hard all summer making sure everything gets their fair share of water. And Simplton if you run out of walls to do would you please come and do mine I'm so tired of this off white stuff. And please continue to rant on, you make for interesting reading for those of us too lazy to type much.

Dot in Texas

This is what I've learned as a relative newbie by experimenting (and still experimenting). (A) You CAN grow daylilies in pots. (B)You CAN leave your pots outside in a protected site to overwinter in a milder zone (my previous picture showed just that). (C) Your potting soil must have perfect drainage. I'm now adding small aquarium gravel to my otherwise excellent private nursery blend potting mix for added drainage. (D) Make sure the crown of the plant is sitting on the surface after everything settles and that water drains away from the crown. (E) If in doubt underwater. (F)Expect some losses and you won't spend a kings ransom on the newest cultivars. (G). There's always roses. They love pots!

Hey, Dot! I can't believe that our summers are that different. Humid, egg-frying hot. Sound right? I usually will not pot up bareroot after about mid-April. I don't blame the plant, its too durn hot to expect very much. The soil actually gets very hot to the touch! I've planted in May, June and July, and rot explodes. However (isn't there always one of those???) last year when Daylily World was moving (and David was giving me anything I wanted), I potted up more than 40 plants for my club and myself during August. Kept the plants in the shade and let the sprinkling system do the work. Didn't lose a one! If I had paid for them ..... among the cultivars were a number of 2005 and 2004 intros. All survived and I'm the most surprised one of them all! They took off this spring and now they look great! All had good root systems but I still don't recommend planting after mid-April in this Central FL climate. I think a big issue was trying to eliminate the impact of the black pots. I had space in my big box but wouldn't use it because of the sunny heat. Probably also important the I dug the plants myself and potted them immediately. Didn't hurt that Daylily World's watering system was on its last leg and the plants were happy to be moved. Tough dudes!

Just a note for the beginners. Dormants and Evergreens do NOT directly equate to hardiness. This is due to all the cross breeding that has gone on between them all. There are hardy dormants and evergreens. Not all evergreens will do well in the South. The terms Dormant and Evergreen refer to the plant habit and how they behave regardless of the climate in which they are growing.

Here is a link that might be useful: AHS's definition of dormant

hi--some observations from coastal Maine-When I first started wintering over perennials in pots I had great beginners luck. I snugged all the pots together (1 and 2 gallon size) and that was it. Our snowy winters took care of the rest. Then came the year when it rained all fall and froze. The pots had a inch of ice on top and stayed that way all winter. I lost 3/4s of the plants--all the daylilies and most of the hostas (which I found to do great in pots) The ones that survived were potted in a commercial mix of bark fines , peat moss and perlite ie well-drained. Those that fared the worse were planted in compost plus peat moss. I suspect that after sitting in a pot for 6 months the compost began to break down and settle and thereby decrease air space and drainge. So the next year, the plants were put under microfoam and opague plastic from early December to early April. Even with 7 neighborhood cats and a few strays, the mice took some but the biggest mistake I made was not watering the plants well before covering up. (We had a dry fall that year!) I also tipped the pots an their side. This was supposed to decrease chance of water collecting in the pots and leading to rot but I question if that just gave the mice easier access. This year, all the plants are in the commercial mix under the microfoam with mouse bait every 2 feet on center. I left the pots standing up and watered well before covering. I peeked under the cover this weekend before we got 1 foot of snow and saw some promising green. The point of this all, is that we are constantly learning and improving and although you can listen to advice from all around the country in forums like this, you ultimately must find what works for you. My take home lesson was drainage is key and mice are sneaky.
I am relatively new to the daylily craze and up here in Maine there are just a few growers. I am collecting some newer varieties (none more than $20 most under $10) and plan to put them in the ground, give them a little TLC the first year and then let them fare for themselves. That way I can figure out what's hardy and what's not. From there, perhaps I can make an educated guess which plants might do well in my region. I guess I am not content with judging a plant's hardiness solely by dor/sev/ev designation. I would be happy to pass along my findings in a year or to!

Roger, you mentioned living in the Chicago area and I will tell you to listen to people who live in your zone. Until a year ago, we were in the burbs of Chicago (for 40 years). Most of my daylilies were EV and SEV but I also had many dormants. They all did just fine. Some years I mulched, other years I didn't bother.

As far as mulch goes, you can usually get free wood chips if you call your village and get 'put on the list'. I used those heavily mainly to cut down on weeds. Over time they feed the soil. You can certainly buy pine bark mulch in bags, but it breaks down very quickly and it isn't free! As far as fertilizer goes, I always counted on compost. Milorganite is great because it is not only a slow release fertilizer but it deters deer.

Just a word of caution on the free mulch/wood chips. Often this free stuff is not treated to prevent termites or carpenter ants. Thus, they advise that you don't put it near the foundation of your house. You should check with the place you get it from to see what they say.

Christine

With another perspective ----- I always make sure the free wood chips I receive are not treated with ANYTHING! I want only those that the elect. company takes down to allow for their wiring. I never wanted woodchips from trees that were sprayed by the lawn-care companies.

Sorry -- off the subject.

(continuing off the subject)... Roberta, do you put these wood chips near your house? The proverbial "they" can be wrong so I was just wondering.

Christine

Yes, Christine - I always did. BUT --- I will also say that termites are not a problem in the Chicago area. I never had a problem with wood chips. Arsenic from treated wood and pesticides will leak into your soil over time and being an organic gardener, that just doesn't work for me.

Since we are now 100 miles west of Chicago, I don't know about termites here. I will use the wood chip mulch around the house though because now with the chickens, hay just gets dug up and spread around.

I need to say that Florida should not be singled out as a risk. The entire south shares the same situation for the most part. The infected plants I have receieved in the last five years did not come from Florida.
The most experienced and knowledgable are in Fl. It is not only reasonable to assume that they also take more precautions to insure customer satisfaction, but it is my experience.

The problem I have is a long term position taken by the society. Information belongs to all members and should not be suppressed...and policy should change to insure that progress is a focal point and is available to all.

With a small investment on my part, I am able to enjoy a garden that has no rust, seldom any rot, and little in the way of negatives. And I am in Texas, daylily hell. I have no agenda against anyone...I actually feel my agenda is for everyone.

My statements have only been directed towards Florida as I discuss the past, especially 50+ years of breeding...which I am thankful for. Like I once said, I wouldn't change anything other than AHS policy and making info available.

Simpleton? (Wade) first of all, I've known you for a long time. You are no simpleton. I recognize your tongue in cheek style but you have always had more tongue than cheek! Your ideas and facts are great. Problem I see is that you spend your time airing them here, what good is that? Other than food for thought to us....you really don't expect anyone in the Daylily upper e. to take your posts and run with them, do you? I think you should join the daylily society, work your way up and start using your intelligence more positively. The AHS consists of individuals with individual rights. Great people died for that. How can they (AHS) be expected to control or make members conform to what boils down to moral judgements using the head of a group with little power and over people who are spred all over the world? I never experience daylily loss in Ohio unless I import. Then I expect it. I went to Texas, bought 12 seedlings out of a killer flower I wanted to use for breeding. I knew there would be great losses. I was willing to lose some to have some to breed with. Turned out I had 3 winners and the flowers from them have been worth it all. You are a smart guy, I wish you would channel your knowledge in a more creative way. People are not changed by rules from an orginization as much as there are one individual at a time. Your friend Bob F.

Hi Bob. Glad to see you have a computer now. I read your post, and one thought came to mind. You are already bumping elbows with the big wheels, and you have those patterns coming along. What about hybridizing do you not know? Maybe you are just happy to be involved here and are hoping to hear what everyone says.

I want everyone here to know how great a guy you are. As solid a foundation you have in your life, you are the most open-minded, non-judgmental guy I know online. In the past, you have helped me to mainatin a positive attitude when I was about to lose the last bit of tolerance I have.

The reason I seem to waste my time is that I have never been able to commit to daylilies. There were a few times, but each time a divorce changed all of that. Even now, I am in no position to make that commitment. I am one of those blue-collar guys, kinda artsy fartsy, kinda grease monkey. By the time I am financially independent, I will be hobbling along. This life has never been about me and my interests.

Plus, there are so many people who know more than me about the daylily business. I am a novice. And, there really aren't that many people who care about a flower other than to enjoy them. If people go beyond that, then they cannot afford to make waves. So, bottom line, there is no need for me or my ideas. I am only trying to make things known so that at least I gave it a tiny bit of effort...a lame attempt to satisfy my conscience.

I am ready to have my best bloom season ever. I am not sure I will even hybridize. It is way too much work. By the way, come up with a flower that has perfect color, a layered eye, and a toothy edge.

I have 1/2 acre with both beds and pots. Probably 150 pots now for over 5 years. I have more losses in pots than in the ground, but I have also learned a few things about how and why I can lose them faster in pots.

Rule one. Compost is not "finished" until it can be moist for several days and stay cool. (It is amazing how hot that nice looking compost can get when you put a teaspoon of fertilizer into the pot with the plant. Or even into the ground. I heard a large hybridizer tell our club how he lost a field of seedlings by putting in too much alfalfa meal)

Rule two. Adding some ammendments to heavy clay soil may give you nice looking potting soil that summer, but at the end of the winter it will look like a mound of potter's clay again, and can have standing water in the pot. (It takes 5 times as much organic material as you think it will, to keep that soil fluffy and draining.)

Rule Three. Know your plants before you grow them in pots. (My local guru, Dee, grows hundreds of varieties in 1000s of pots for sale locally. I went to buy a very durable proven old variety from him, and he didn't have it. He said "That one just will not grow in pots. You will lose it very time even though you see it in the ground all over town."

Rule Four. If you're not willing to play $100 or $200 on someone's single roll in a craps game or at the roulette table, and smile and shrug when you lose, don't buy the new variety that was hybridized in a far away zone. (It's almost as much of a gamble.)

Rule Five. By next year you will forget or ignore rule four and do it again. (Hope really does spring eternal)

Mary, what an excellent and useful post! I've just learned some valuable lessons from you; the point about compost alone is worth the price of admission. I'm lucky that I have an enormous and completely aged compost pile, else who knows what I might have put in my pots? As it happens, I'll soon be moving on to newer compost, so I now know to do the "fertilizer test" before using it.

Rule #5: very funny!

Bob Clary never minced his words, and he once said to a southern grower that the only use for an evergreen daylily was to provide compost for the plant you replaced it with. Said that to his face. Go Bob!
I put my two most vigorous varieties into plastic pots in late summer, and it killed half of them, my bad.
When we discuss leaf streak, crown rot ect., we are really describing symptoms (like asthma) which are from various pathogens. I'm fighting one of my own now, that came from California ~six years ago. It isn't weather, soil, or varietal in nature. It kills what it can reach. I'm reacting by destroying large sections of beds, in the hope/observation that it spreads to adjacent plants only. It seems to reside in healthy looking plants for several years before manifesting itself in a drastic decline in the plants vigour. It never completely kills it's host. Perhaps the perfect disease. The primary other sign is bright yellow streaks in the leaf, almost ornamental in appearance. It seems natural to me that the daylily matrix is a perfect breeding ground for disease. Quarantine of new purchases would only have helped me if it had been prolonged. hard to do for big buyers with small yards. Also, when you buy a plant, you look at the blossom, and buy based on what you see. Breeders react to buyers. I have two of Viettes plants, Lemon cap and August Ruby, But Ive seen them perform well in a blackberry patch.

I may not be as opininated as Mr. Clary, but I love people who are compelled to speak out. Go Bob!

Just what we need, a disease mystery. Thanks for sharing. Keep us informed.

Wade

Hi all,

I lost a few over the winter. Rhythm Divine and a Tom Maddox seedling are toast and Moonlit Masquerade and Pure and Simple have yet to make an appearance. I am still holding out hope for Islesworth to pull through but there is no sign so far. A clump of Bill Norris took a beating but there are at least two fans that survived. On the other side of the coin, South Seas, Roses in Snow and Pandora's Box have come on like gangbusters.

Edward

I respect the memory of Bob Clary. I have never heard of him making such a blanket statement about evergreens and honestly, it seems out of character for him.
I would have to take issue with the statement. From my own experience, I find evergreens equally as hardy as dormants and with their own advantages as a group, especially when grown in more tropical climates.
Have you taken any plants to your county agricultural office and had them examined for pathogens? Both infected and healthy looking to try to determine what the problem is? It smacks of crown rot to me and also high phosphorus levels in your soil. Have you done a soil test?
Whatever the problem, I hope you pursue its cause and try to find a remedy and not just blame it on evergreen plants.

I have a lot on my mind about how my daylilies bought this year are going to come thru the winter. Much different here than the West Coast were the original poster lives but it proves to me that I can not know what next spring will bring and how my daylilies will do.