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Northern Rebloom

Posted by GDJCB 5/6 eaWA (My Page) on
Tue, May 21, 13 at 20:32

Hello,
I am back with another question. I am a ways from any blooms yet, but am already looking towards future purchases. I have read a lot here and other places about rebloom for many Daylillies not being reliable or none at all for northern gardens. I like the most bang for my buck and rebloom or even better instant rebloom would seem to be the way to get the most bang. I was hoping that those of you who live in Northern climates would share the names of your reliable reblooming daylillies. I plan on purchasing some Norris plants this coming winter, as he seems to breed for this. Are there any other Northern Hybridizers who also breed for instant or regular rebloom?

Thanks,
Gale


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Northern Rebloom

I would recommend Norris instant rebloom package. I just got a few of his this spring. From what I have read there great! Here is a link that might be helpful as well :)

Here is a link that might be useful: rebloom in north


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RE: Northern Rebloom

I've come to understand that for the south, rebloom is the way to get more bloom, and for the north, high bud count is the more reliable path to longer bloom.

Nate


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RE: Northern Rebloom

I've been extremely happy with my dayllies from,
Mike Derrow (Adena Hems)-re-bloom and continual bloom
Paul Owen has rock hardy dor with re-bloom and multi bloom
Judy Davison same as above
Gary Schaben-Northern Exposure Gardens same as above
And of course Richard Norris


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Thanks Patty for the input, I haven't heard of most of them :)

I have one bud builder, when it has rain it bloomed all summer. Not sure on the name though. Bud builders look a little funny, but if put in with taller bloomers it could disguise it a bit.


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Those mentioned are very good hybridizers another is Karol Emmerich check out her site her descriptions of her intorductions will tell you if they rebloom. I love her and Gary Schabens daylilies naturally since both of them live here in Minnesota their daylilies do very well here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Springwood Gardens


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Karol is just terrific, she is openly honest about her daylilies, Ive actually been there while she evualated her seedlings, she picks flaws out and rejects them , if she does decided to keep flaws, its for specific reasons and she spells them out. Ive seen her instant rebloom (or to my understand, delayed scape blooming) program first hand.

However, there are several ways to extend the season in the north. Vigor, instant rebloom, bud count, Bud Builders all can play a part. That being said, having 150 buds on 6 scapes on a face you do not like , isnt going to cut it either. So you have to play around with what you prefer and what you enjoy personally the most.

Please be aware, that purchasing from southern growers is going to be a crapshoot, what is vigorous down there , may not be in the north even then, buying from one zone 4-5 seller, may or may not work out for you, each area of the country is so different. But generally speaking a Z5 seller, saying thiers is vigorous there should work for you.


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RE: Northern Rebloom

I personally think there is a lot of confusion on whether a daylily is actually a "rebloomer". I was told if it blooms from the center of the scape it is just doing its natural bloom cycle. If it comes from the side of the fan, it is a rebloomer.

So can anyone verify if that is correct or not? When you read the AHS Dictionary on Reblooming, it really does not specify any of the above information and gives very little information on the terminology other than the following:
"REMONTANT, REBLOOMING:
Having more than one cycle of flowering per year. "

Julia


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Thanks every one for the info, I will be checking out all of the hybridizers suggested in the above posts. If any one has a name of a favorite high bud count/rebloomer/instant bloomer for the North, that they would like to share, it would be great.

Thanks again,
Gale


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Darla Anita and French Lingerie started re looming in their third year here. it takes longer to get established here in VT but once they do rebloom usually lasts until the first frost.


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RE: Northern Rebloom

I've heard similar to the same thing Julia. If the first scape comes from the side it is just a left over scape from the previous season that didn't get to bloom because of weather. The center scape would be the current years bloom and any after that to the side would be a rebloom. Not sure where I had heard that from.

I do have a seedling that has rebloomed the past 3 years for me. I will have to keep an eye on where the scapes emerge.

Waterdrops did send up a 2nd scape last year with fewer buds. But by the time it did send up that 2nd scape we were in a drought. So, I'm surprised it had the energy to at all.

Andrea


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Interesting idea and question about the position of a scape and whether it is the first scape or a rebloom scape.

This is my current understanding of how daylilies bloom (from Stout's observations and my own).

First a simple once blooming cultivar.

Until a fan is mature/adult the growing point in the centre of the fan produces only leaves. When the fan becomes large enough to bloom (it becomes mature/adult/reproductive) the growing point (or shoot apical meristem - SAM) stops producing leaves and becomes the scape. It can not normally ever again produce any leaves. So the scape starts to develop in the centre of the fan.

But the fan would never grow again if that was all there was. It isn't. What happens is there are buds or potential buds just 'above' each leaf. These buds are on the crown (which is a stem) in the angle between the leaf and the stem - they are called axillary buds or meristems. When the SAM becomes a scape one or more axillary buds can start to develop. The axillary bud becomes the new replacement SAM. It starts to produce leaves and continues the fan's growth.

BUT

When that new bud starts to develop it has a number of choices. It can be dormant from the start of its development and stay dormant until after the next winter. The plant will then be a fan of leaves with a central scape with mature leaves on both sides and no new leaves will grow that year. The new bud will start to grow the next spring.

OR

The bud can start producing new leaves immediately as it starts to develop. In this case the plant will be a fan which at one time had a central scape but as the new leaves develop on the axillary bud they push that scape to one side. At some time later the scape will not be in the centre because all the developing leaves have become the centre. When the leaves on the new axillary bud develop immediately the scape will never be visibly and obviously in the centre of the fan.

OR

The new axillary bud may be dormant for a time. That period can be any length. When it is not too short one may see a central scape and then see the new tuft or fan of leaves start to grow beside the scape.

For a daylily to rebloom there must not be too long a delay in that new axillary bud developing and growing. It has to grow large enough to produce a scape. Then the cycle repeats.

Rebloom requires that the new leaves grow quickly so water and fertilizer are helpful in getting rebloom. As an example, 'Mosel' will rebloom for me but only if I water and fertilize it and I need to do that for some time (more than a year) if I have let the plants languish. 'True Gertrude Demarest' remained as one fan and did not bloom for ten years but as soon as I started heavily fertilzing it with high nitrogen, grew quickly to three fans and rebloomed.

Researchers have found that most daylilies (modern cultivars at least) do not need special daylengths or cold to bloom. That suggests that there is no biological difference between first bloom and rebloom. When a fan is large enough it blooms. As long as conditions allow it to grow its replacement/new leaves quickly it will rebloom.

Unfortunately, plants in general are very flexible in how they grow depending on the conditions.

Here, most years 'Heavenly Harmony' produces a central scape in June and no new leaves after that until September. But last year I gave it high nitrogen fertilizer and we had a drought. Heavenly Harmony produced new leaves all year so the central scape was pushed to the side.

Here, most years 'Ophir' produces a central scape in July and no new leaves for the entire rest of the year. But in one year it produced scapes and then half a dozen new leaves while it was flowering and then no new leaves for the entire rest of the year. So the central scape was pushed a little to one side.

Ophir is registered as a semi-evergreen but it is a normal dormant here. It is also registered as a rebloomer but it never has rebloomed and I cannot see how it could since it basically does not grow after flowering. Its leaves do stay green until November. So last year I did a test. After Ophir had flowered I removed all the leaves from some fans, the scapes from some other fans and both the scapes and all the leaves from some other fans. Every fan that had all its leaves removed had its bud break and produced new leaves. So I conclude that Ophir may be able to rebloom in any location where conditions cause its bud to start growing after flowering. Perhaps by being fertilized with high nitrogen, perhaps by having its leaves prematurely die because of high temperature or who knows what.

It will be interesting to see what 'Heavenly Harmony' does with its scape and leaves this year. So far there has been no sign of a scape. It is my earliest tetraploid bloomer but that means it opens its flowers in very late June or early July so I do not expect to see a scape for a week or two yet.

It will also be interesting to see what the fans of Ophir do this year after I removed all their normal leaves last year. I expect that they will have suffered and most will not bloom this year.

To summarize: Is a scape that is not in the centre of a fan a 'rebloom' scape left-over from last year? Sometimes, but not necessarily.

Can one tell if such a scape is left-over from last year? Perhaps, if one has detailed information that the cultivar nearly always produces a central scape; if one knows how many leaves are produced normally before the central scape and how many leaves were produced before the 'side' scape. One would also need to know how many leaves had been produced the previous year after the scape had been produced.


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RE: Northern Rebloom

admmad, can I take away from this, that if I fertilize with a high nitrogen fertilizer, that rebloom will increase or is more likely? The circle's end gun hits about half the back yard, and since field corn is grown, nitrogen is ran through it every other week or so. The plants it hit grew HUGE, and I mean HUGE, but there were considerably fewer blooms on the plants (about 1/3 less), although, what blooms there was, were very large and beautiful. Did you find using high nitrogen fertilizer lowered the bud counts?
Thanks,
Gale


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Did you find using high nitrogen fertilizer lowered the bud counts?

That is not something I looked at mainly because I was looking at rebloom. Remember that 'True Gertrude Demarest' had not grown large enough or well enough to flower at all for ten years until it was heavily fertilized. So I would not expect that high nitrogen fertilizing would permanently decrease flower numbers.

There are several effects that happen when plants are provided with high nitrogen.
1) the plants grow larger.
2) As a general rule in plants the larger the plant the more flowers and sometimes the larger the flowers.
3) As a general rule in plants the larger the plant the more likely it is to flower (usually only within a limited range of plant sizes) - for example, below a certain size the plant cannot flower and above a certain size it divides into two or more plants, etc.

Plants have a great deal of flexibility in how they grow and flower. If a plant has been grown with little or no nitrogen for several years it may flower at sizes that are smaller than optimum and it may maximize its flowering for thatr size plant to increase its chances of reproducing and leaving any offspring (low nitrogen indicates a poor growing environment and possible death, etc).

When supplied with high nitrogen the plant may then respond with luxuriant growth and become much larger. It may also produce more increase in fans. If it is a plant species that normally requires many months to produce flower buds then it may not produce as many flowers as its size would suggest but it may do so the next year.

My question would be - "there were fewer blooms on the plants" does that mean that each scape had fewer blooms? or that a plant that was 10 fans had fewer scapes (not all fans had scapes)? When the plants grew huge did the number of fans increase as well as the size of each fan? Did the height of the scapes increase? What happened the next year?


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Great learning here! In the north what Admmad is saying (correct me if im wrong please) it wouldnt hurt to add nitrogen because of the lack of growth season. Cultavers that have good increase habbits for the north are more likely to rebloom.

Sound about right?

Thanks David,


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RE: Northern Rebloom

it wouldnt hurt to add nitrogen because of the lack of growth season

Yes. [Especially if the plants are not usually fertilized or fertilized infrequently.]

The basic pattern for rebloom is to produce a set of leaves and then a scape, then produce another set of leaves and a scape, and so on [in warm climates with long growing seasons like Florida]. To grow leaves takes time and the faster the plant grows the more likely it will be able to rebloom before winter arrives. Plant growth requires nitrogen. There will be an optimum amount of nitrogen that produces faster growth (than lesser amounts and probably than greater amounts).
In the back issues of the Daylily Journal there are articles indicating what the optimum of nitrogen is for daylily growth (or near optimum).

In Volume 54, Spring 1999, pages 11 to 15, Pat Crooks Henley wrote about nutrients for daylilies.

Based on scientific research sponsored in part by the American Hemerocallis Society, daylilies benefited by two and a half times as much nitrogen as a lawn (based on 27-3-3) fertilizer.

The research was originally published in the Journal of Environmental Horticulture, Volume 8 issue 1 pages 19 to 21, 1990 and can be found at the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nitrogen Nutrition of Container Grown Hemerocallis x 'Stella de Oro'

This post was edited by admmad on Sun, May 26, 13 at 9:48


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RE: Northern Rebloom

admmad, The plants that got the large doses of nitrogen were Rudbeckia, Zinnia, Gaillardia and Marigolds, not Daylillies. I did plant several this year that well be hit by the end gun, though, and they are all registered as having rebloom. I will watch and see if the high doses of nitrogen improves the reblooms on these.
Gale


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RE: Northern Rebloom

"I was hoping that those of you who live in Northern climates would share the names of your reliable reblooming daylillies."

I don't have a lot of rebloomers, so my most reliable one is also one of the few I have. ;) So, for what it's worth:

UNCHAIN MY HEART, by Stu Kendig, always gives a great performance. It always reblooms. It looks like STRAWBERRY CANDY, one of its parents. But since I'm probably the only person on the planet who both does not grow that one and likes it a lot, that's a plus for me. UNCHAIN MY HEART has grown quite well for me, and, now that it's at clump strength, puts on a real show here.
There's a link to its description on the hybridizer's website (scroll down the page):

http://www.hardyhems.com/previousKENDIGintros.htm

Another one I'd highly recommend is GREYWOODS SPIRIT HAWK, by Darlyn Wilkinson. It's one of the longest-blooming daylilies here, maybe the longest one. It's one of the earlier ones to start for me; in fact, scapes might even be forming now - I haven't checked. It finishes up some time in July. In the AHS database, it's registered as an EM, and there's no mention of extended bloom; however, the hybridizer describes it on her website as an extended bloomer, going from EM-LM. (My plant may start earlier than EM because it's sited in front of and near a lot of stone and stucco, i.e., warm microclimate.) Here's the link to the hybridizer's page; again, scroll down until you find it:

http://greywoodfarm.squarespace.com/previous-intros-o-z/

I like other color combos a lot more than GREYWOOD SPIRIT HAWK's yellow and red, but I can't imagine being without this daylily. And that's even though I'm not especially fond of bud builders. :)

Of the two, the Wilkinson might be a better performer for you. I'm thinking of your zone - I'm in zone 6, but probably 6B, and GREYWOODS SPIRIT HAWK might have a zone 7 microclimate. The Kendig's are in zone 6, too, roughly due west of me. Greywood Farm is in Massachusetts, and I suppose it might be closer to your growing conditions (?)


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Admmad - good to see you posting! Don't be a stranger around here. You are an encyclopedia of knowledge that quite a few of the newer people on here have probably never known existed. Wonder where Dr. Sue is?


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RE: Northern Rebloom

lynxe- Thanks, I am a fan of eyes and edges and Unchain My Heart looks like a great one. Greywoods Spirit Hawk, is also a nice looking Daylily. Hopefully I will get some more responses, or perhaps rebloomers in my zone really are tough to come by.

gmatx- I agree, as a new poster and newer to growing Daylillies, I find all info helpful and Admmad seems to have a lot of knowledge.

Thanks,
Gale


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RE: Northern Rebloom

Gale - I am one of the really, REALLY old ones around here. In the past it was quite common for many of us to post questions so we could get Admman and Dr. Sue (I don't remember exactly her alias - maybe Soobe?) to expound quite thoroughly on their knowledge of different aspects of daylilies/their growing and other plants, also. Learned so much from those two, as well as the others that post here now.

Even though I own a small commercial greenhouse, I most certainly don't know as much as I definitely should or would like to about all aspects of growing.....!

Knowledge is power. Welcome to the wonderful addicting world of daylily growing.

Mary


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