the only thing I know is that if you dealing with doubles, the pod parent must be the double to make the odds better of creating another double.

Yes, there is information on-line that some major hybridizers have published, especially about color traits. I just don't have the links handy to refer you to them.

I've been watching our 1,000+ 2011 daylily seedlings bloom for the first time and I just shake my head in amazement as to the endless and unexpected variety that we've gotten. I've made careful study of pedigrees, preferring to line-breed. When I check back to see who the parents are, I get so many unexpected outcomes it makes me wonder if the markers were switched by workers.

What you see in a daylily does not reveal the recessive alleles that lurk hidden within the flower's genetic code. There's little predictabiity - and there are a lot of potential surprises waiting for you! About all you can do is study the basics of genetics and hope for the best. An interesting study, if you have the time/space, is to make 50-100 crosses of the same parents both ways to study the outcome.

I have a beautiful pink seedling out of Born to Run and Song Triumphant - both predominantly red. I even have some turn up with teeth, which neither parent had! I've made many crosses using Beautiful Edgings - and have very tall seedlings from it all over the place. So all I can say with certainty about that parent is that it is dominant for tall scapes.

It's like going to Vegas -- you may win some, but will lose, too! It is so much fun to see the outcome of your efforts.

To confuse you even more, the babies will evolve over 3-4 years too! I've had a few seedlings I've been evaluating for more than 3 years - trying to decide if I should trash them or not, and now they are looking so much more promising.

The most special diploid seedling I have started out tall, vigorous and double - a gorgeous big red diploid with a big yellow "star" eye. Neither parent even closely resembled this beauty. Neither parent was double, either. We almost lost it last year during the drought. It never doubled again after the first year. Now it is down to "short" and thankfully reviving, but did produce as pod parent the most exciting seedling this year - a tall hot pink and yellow fluffy double diploid when crossed back to a double.

Nancy

Nancy,
Thanks so much for your response. I will have the space this fall for a lot of seedlings so next year I am going to pick 2 daylilies to cross with each other exclusively and see how those turn out. Do you chose daylilies that are similar to each other or pretty different? I usually work wifh Munsons.

I generally make my crosses with one main goal in mind: improvement, i.e. producing a seedling that has the most desirable characteristics of both parents. My personal preference is to evaluate pedigrees during winter and plan future line-breeding on paper. That' s easier said than done. You would need to carefully store frozen pollen ahead of time. I often get lazy and find it easier to just run around dabbing pollen rather than dealing with the frozen stuff. I might add that certain hybridizers customarily will not reveal the names of the parents, so you run into a dead-end there in planning crosses from their cultivars based on pedigrees.

When I make my crosses, I'm walking around in the garden deep in thought. I may cross like to like, relative to relative, or I may do a complete out-cross. For example, one daylily may have outstanding vigor, but not the latest-and-greatest face on the bloom. The one with the pretty face may not have enough vigor to please me. So I may cross the two in the hope of getting at least one or more seedlings from the cross that will have both a pretty face and exceptional vigor. I may cross two heavily ruffled daylilies to double on on that gene. And so on.....

I've been in daylilies long enough to watch a steady progression of "latest fads," from heavy ruffles....to chicken-fat ruffles....to big eyes...to edges...to multi-color edges...to complex eyes....and now teeth. Who knows what the next year will bring?

In the 80's-90's, I successfully bred and finished 7 Shih Tzu champion dogs, based on what I learned from studying basic genetics, and especially the benefits of line-breeding. I considered myself fortunate if one puppy in a litter had show potential. It seems to be about that way with daylilies, too.

I am really just a "small-fry" hobby hybridizer. Certainly those who have large daylily nurseries and make thousands of crosses can give you much better information on the likelihood of achieving desired outcomes.

The one basic thing to keep in mind is that for every single characteristic of a living creature, plant or animal, that the gene expression for a given characteristic - the one you see (dominant) -- is a combination of two alleles - one from each parent. The other allele is hidden and not expressed. Recessive alleles have the capability of being passed down even for many generations before they join a similar recessive in the other parent, thus turning up visible in the offspring. That's why human brothers and sisters from the same set of parents do not all look identical. While there may be certain similarities among siblings, there are also differences, too. It isn't surprising when children more closely resemble one of their grandparents than their own parents.

Hybridizing is like gambling,. You take your chances and hope you will win. A quick rough estimate on this year's seedlings indicates that I have around 10-20% that are special. The daylily hybridizer term "keepers" basically means those we like well enough to continue growing in the garden for the next three years. It takes at least that long before we can determine if we think it is worthy of registration. The seedlings do evolve and change for the better or worse in that given period of time. Though some of these select seedlings will not measure up, they still theoretically could be useful in making crosses with others of their line in the future, since they share many of the same familial characteristics, thus upping the odds of success.

One last thing: if you can find a successful daylily hybridizer in your area willing to mentor you, it could be a great start. I have not had that advantage, so what little I knowledge I have has come from book-learning and trial-and-error. It certainly is thrilling to see that first very special daylily that you had a hand in creating.

Nancy

I have found there are no easy rules to follow when hybridizing. Certain plants have certain dominant traits. Seedlings out of Great White, for example, have beautiful blue green foliage but multiply slowly.There are lots of surprises, but that's what makes it fun.

Debra

Don't know if I should start a new thread but thought I would ask here about SPIDERS. Is this characteristic dominant, recessive, or ?? E.g. does a spider crossed with a more standard flower generally produce spiders, standards, or flowers of intermediate form??

Flowers with intermediate form.