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farawayfarmer

Identifying ploidy

FarawayFarmer
10 years ago

If you have a daylily and don't know whether it's a diploid or a tetraploid, is there a way to tell--absent expensive tests, that is?

Comments (10)

  • deangreen
    10 years ago

    google search the name plus the word daylily, and daaaavvsgarden usually shows the ploidy,and of course there is always the AHS database which is free.
    otherwise just look at it and if it looks like a genetically mutated monster out of a dr. seuss book, it might be tretraploid.. ha ha ha. J/K!!!!!!!!!!! :)

  • lalalandwi
    10 years ago

    You are funny deangreen!

    I am assuming you lost the tag or it's a seedling? You are also wanting to know for hybridizing purposes? I don't see why else it would matter?

    No expensive test necessary. Just cross it with a known dip AND tet (different blooms of course) & see what takes. It might take a couple of times to be sure as not all crosses will take on the 1st try. You will definitely know.

  • FarawayFarmer
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Actually, it's a 1986 introduction, and the AHS database does not list ploidy. I'll try some crossings and see what takes.

  • dementieva
    10 years ago

    Does AHS have any data on it? If you can find parentage you will know the ploidy, or even if you know who the hybridizer was, you can probably make a good guess.

    Nate

  • taurustendency
    10 years ago

    if you cant find it on one of the ones they mentioned above, try allthingsplants.com

    that site usually lists the parentage and all sorts of good details.

  • polymerous
    10 years ago

    Be aware that in some cases the AHS database is incorrect.

    As an example, the polymerous daylily STARRY DAY is incorrectly listed as a tetraploid. If I recall correctly (it has been many years now), the hybridizer had no idea who the parents were (note that there is no parentage given). As he was otherwise hybridizing tetraploids, that is perhaps why he registered it as a tetraploid.

    Going by its hybridizing behavior, however, various members of the snail mail poly round robins at that time determined that STARRY DAY is, in fact, a diploid. (I have confirmed that for myself, in some of my own crosses.)

    Both the AHS database and the database on this site still list STARRY DAY as a tetraploid, yet if you look at the child plants, you can see that the crosses that produced them are with diploids. For some reason that I do not understand, however, THOSE child plants are also all listed as tetraploids - yet I know for a fact that the other plants involved in the crosses (GIVE ME EIGHT, PURPLE PETALOID, FUCHSIA FOUR) are all diploids.

    So the AHS database is not entirely trustworthy when it comes to ploidy.

    As someone else suggested above, if in doubt, you should try to set pods using known tet and dip pollen (on different blooms). Be aware, however, that some crosses may be genetically incompatible and doomed to failure for reasons other than ploidy - so you may wish to try setting pods from different known tets, and different know dips. (This is all ignoring other factors that can cause pods to not set, or else to abort.)

    Good luck!

  • polymerous
    10 years ago

    Oops...duh....

    For some reason, when I mentioned "the database on this site", I thought I was in allthingsplants. Duh! Serves me right for posting late at night.

    (Apart from THAT, my comment still holds... The AHS database has ploidy errors in it, and these errors have propagated to other daylily databases. So if you can't produce viable pods (ones that don't abort after a couple of weeks) using pollen from one tet, try a couple of others... if you STILL can't get pods, then consider the possibility that the plant is a dip, and try making dip crosses. If you still can't get pods after that, then either the weather, structural features of the bloom's reproductive system, or some genetic fault is against you.)

  • FarawayFarmer
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The AHS database seems to also be missing a LOT of pictures, even of some fairly recent cultivars. Don't photos have to be submitted with registration?

  • dementieva
    10 years ago

    AHS has actually improved a lot with photos in the last couple years. Yes photos are supposed to be submitted, but for whatever reason (probably because it's a lot of work when thousands of cultivars are registered each year) they don't all get photos.

    What I really like on ATP DB is that you can find multiple photos of the same plant from different people. It's much more useful when you want to get an idea of what a plant really looks like.

    Nate

  • Ed
    10 years ago

    Have someone with the 1986 Checklist look it up for you. Email the AHS Registrar. Measure the pollen size.

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