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Patio landscaping for privacy-out of ideas-PICS

emj123
16 years ago

I am wracking my brain trying to figure out what to do with one side of my patio. Pics are below. I had planted a row of 4 Spartan Junipers and staggered in front of them, 3 Anthony Waterer Spireas. On one side of the Junipers is a Sandcherry and on the other, a Red Twig Dogwood.

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As you can see from one of the photos, I have lost one of the Junipers. I have decided not to replace it (I do not like this look anyway) but rather, either remove all four Junipers or remove the 2 center ones and put something else in their place.

My objectives/preferences/conditions:

(1) I want to fill in the space that will be created when the Junipers are removed.

(2) I am looking for something to provide privacy between the patio and the street (which the planting of the Junipers was designed to do). It does not have to be an evergreen since I am in Zone 5 (NE Ohio) and have no plans of spending time on the patio in the winter, but it should be something that gets at least 5 high.

(3) My absolute first choice would be Shasta Viburnum, but finding a decent-sized one has proved impossible and I do not want to wait several years to have some privacy. I like the Shasta because of its horizontal branching and disproportionate width relative to the height. Rhodos would be on the top of my list as well but the available ones are too small and grow too slow.

(4) I am also looking for something relatively informal. E.g., a Privet or Boxwood hedge is out of the question. A tree is also not an option. Additionally, I would like to avoid pyramidal or columnar shapes (i.e., no Arborvitaes). While ornamental grasses would work well, I have another area close by with grasses (not seen in photos) and do not want to overdo this look.

(5) Flowering shrubs would be nice, but not necessary.

(6) This area faces both the east and west and gets a good amount of sun. ItÂs heavy clay soil, but it will be amended before planting. The space the Junipers currently occupy is approx. 10Â wide.

I have considered filling in this space with a row of several more Sandcherrys or Burning Bushes as I can find fairly large ones at the nurseries, but I am thinking that both of those options may look somewhat blah (IÂm pretty sure that I would hate the look) and it would probably create the formal look that I am trying to avoid. The Sandcherrys would, however, tie in with a Thundercloud that is planted at the other end of the property (not seen in photos).

I have also played around with layering various shrubs. I am having problems with this option, however, because of the Sandcherry and Dogwood at the ends (i.e., having a hard time mentally tying it all together) and the availability of fast growers or specimans already more than 3Â or 4Â feet high.

I am more than welcome to any suggestions anyone might have.

Comments (18)

  • Saypoint zone 6 CT
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You want to avoid formality, but you're placing your shrubs in a symmetrical pattern.

    I'd remove the dead juniper and replace it with the sandcherry, which looks like it will need more space than it has in its current location. It's hard to tell from the pictures. You could also move the spireas so they are in a cluster of three that is more to one side of the centerline rather than spaced evenly in a row, and insert something else in the space that opens up. Maybe your viburnum, or one of the small leaved rhododendrons, which will tolerate an exposed location better than the large leaved types.

  • emj123
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am not concerned about symetry, just formality (I do not equate the two). If I was going for symetry though (and I actually like the row of spirea; the center one is planted further forward than the other two and I still have a bit of space to work with between and in front of them), I'm not sure how I could accomplish that with a sandcherry and dogwood on either side of the space. I'm wondering if I should just leave the dogwood out of the equation since technically, it is in front of the house and not the patio (of course, I can't entirely ignore it in the overall design).

  • pls8xx
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Privacy.

    Sound separation can be almost as important as visual separation. Build a court yard wall.

    The street elevation seems to be somewhat lower than the patio. A wall should be possible that one can see over when close to the wall but provide complete privacy for the rest of the patio.

  • emj123
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the suggestion. The grade does slope downward from the patio to the street. I have considered a retaining wall to match the stone facade of the steps (not completed yet), but decided that's really not the look I'm going for and I don't think it would mesh with the rest of the landscaping (and we've pretty much had our fill of concrete/stone work over the last year). I'm not really trying to block out noise, I would just like to be able to sit on the patio without feeling like I'm on a open stage.

  • karinl
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Trellis with vine?

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What is currently there is a bunch of very tidy growing plants, arranged in a very predictable pattern. This would probably strike most people as a 'formal' design. Replacing it with a different set of tidy growing plants arranged in a different very predictable pattern would probably also strike most people as a 'formal' design.

    It is impossible to plant three plants in an arrangement that does not become a triangle. Given an even spacing of plants, it is impossible to arrange them so it does not become an equilateral triangle. It is also impossible to plant two plants other than in a straight line.

    Try thinking in terms of the entire front of the house. Maybe something large at the corner of this planting that balances something large on the other side of the house. From the patio, it dominates the bed, but is balanced on the other side by the bulk of the house itself.

    BTW, most doublefile viburnums grow like weeds.

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have to admit that I kind of like your Juniper planting. The sand cherry looks a little crammed in there on the end. I would be tempted to move the juniper on the end to replace the dead one and shift the sand cherry so that it has more room.

    I mostly wanted to mention that Shasta Viburnums get very wide, so I don't think you would have room for one of those unless you were planning on removing the Spirea. There are other Viburnums that would work...I love the fragrance of my Viburnum x juddii and I think they are better candidates for future pruning than Shasta.

    The trellis idea also is not bad. If you wanted you could plan on removing the trellis in the future when whatever you do plant matures. A trellis would also give you more freedom to do as suggested (thinking in terms of the entire front of the house) because you would not be limited to just plants that can provide immediate screening.

    - Brent

  • laag
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey, I learned enough from those pictures to tell that this is obviously one of Batman's arch enemies. Sorry,I could not resist. (for you younger people, the hideouts of Batman's rivals were always tilted on the tv screen)

    I'll offer this, although it goes against the OP's wishes. Start by looking at solving the problem the best way you can and then look to mitigate what you don't like about the solution. A section of privet hedge gives you instant and relatively cheap screening. Then you plant informally on either side of it and no one notices the "formal hedge". It also makes a great backdrop to show off the plants in front.

  • emj123
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All good suggestions. And BTW laag, though young when it aired, I do recall those rivetting angled shots in the Batman series. Now that was quality TV!

    I will maul over the many suggestions. Thanks to all who contributed.

  • Brent_In_NoVA
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    LOL...I had not even noticed the angled shots. I can understand the "hanging out the window" ones but the second one is funny..."Help! I have fallen and I can't get....hey, maybe I will take a picture of my new landscape while I am down here."

    - Brent

  • summiebee
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm in NE Ohio as well. Near Canton actually. I am noticing that your one juniper is not doing so well. IS that the norm here? I thought those may be a good option to arborviate's for my issues.

    A nearby home has a similar situation and they planted juniper with tall ornamental grasses then did shorter perrenials around in other areas. Not sure how the tall grasses would be with mosquitos though. Maybe someone with more knowledge would be able to help. I think it is called Pampas grass?

  • emj123
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thought I would provide an update since I used some of the suggestions provided above.

    I removed the dead juniper and moved the good, left-sided juniper (the one next to the sandcherry) and placed it in front of the two remaining junipers on the right to create a triangle. I pruned each a little so they are all slightly different heights--the tallest being closest to the house. Two of the spirea were moved in front of the juniper triangle to the front of the bed and the remaining one to the front, left side of the bed, slightly right of the sandcherry. In the remaining space--the gap left by the removal of the spriea and the 2 junipers on the left--I planted a viburnum (maresii [sp?]. I think this should provide a decent amount of space for both the sancherry and viburnum (with pruning). It also created the more informal look I was going for and added some height and bulk at the corner of the house that was much needed. I think I will really like it once things fill in a little. Thanks again for the suggestions

  • swanoir
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The links to the pictures no longer work. Any way to fix them?

    Thanks!

  • laag
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Did you get the privacy that you were looking for?

  • Saypoint zone 6 CT
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I usually leave the photos where they are so that subsequent readers can make use of the thread. If you ditch the photos as soon as you're done, there is no way for anyone to see what you were talking about.

  • emj123
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hmmmm . . .the pics show up on my screen. Guess I'll need to reload them. I may have inadvertently deleted them. Laag--I do not have the privacy I want YET--but should as soon as the viburnum fills in the space.

    Meanwhile, back at the bat cave, the pics were reloaded (if the link still is not working, please hollar):

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    With some "afters" to boot (don't mind the unfinished work that shows in the pics, e.g., missing treads on the steps. Playing in the dirt takes priority over having a safe mode of ingress and egress).

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    Using the junipers wasn't my first choice, but I did not want to just stick them somewhere else. I think that once the virbunum kicks into gear and the dogwood to the left of the junipers sprouts up, things should blend together a little better.

  • Saypoint zone 6 CT
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it looks much better. How do you feel about the change from planting in a row to a more asymmetrical layout?

    It will fill in nicely, and you can experiment with a few clumps of perennials to add some interest if you want to. Shrub plantings always look a little sparse when first planted, but they need room to fill out.

  • emj123
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In all seriousness, it wasn't an easy change. I often set out to achieve asymetry with odd numbers (and I even preach it), but when I actually go to plant, I end up planting pairs of things in rows--as if there must be a center of everything with matching plants to the sides. This was the first time I successfully resisted my inate tendency (a tendency that frequently conflicts with my objective).

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