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Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Posted by moontraveler 7GA (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 24, 03 at 20:53

I've contacted a few nurseries in pursuit of PawPaw. I have received info that one nursery was selling the 'Wilson' cultivar and the other was selling the native non-hybrid. I only have room for two and would very much like to get a good quality tree (looks and taste). Does it matter if it's a hybrid? Where does everyone get their Paw Paws?

I've checked Henry Fields, Raintree and a Florida Nursery that I can't remember the name of. I'm leaning towards the cultivars, but maybe it doesn't matter.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I'd stay away from Henry Fields - all you'll get from them is bareroot seedlings - with low transplant survival rates.
Check out the KYSU Pawpaw page - tons of info, as well as listings of suppliers. You might want to look for "Mango", which originated in Tifton.
Heck, while you're looking for pawpaw stuff, be sure to check out Eddie Rhoades' Bittersweet Gardens website - www.bittersweetgardens.com - he's got some info & photos of pawpaw.

Here is a link that might be useful: KYSU Pawpaw site


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Thank you for posting that link. I had seen it once early in my search and decided that the 'Mango' would be a good choice. I'm set now on one of the 'Mango' from TyTy and one of 'Rebecca's Gold' from Raintree. I'm assuming these two will get along and happily pollinate and produce.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Be VERY wary of anything you get from TyTy. If you'll check the Plants by Mail and GardenWatchDog sites, I'm sure you'll find all manner of horror stories from folks who've ordered from them. I'm one. If you can go to the nursery and pick it up, in person, you *might* be better off, but otherwise, I'd avoid TyTy like the plague.
I think I've seen Mango offered by Edible Landscaping, but it's not currently listed in their online catalog.

Here is a link that might be useful: Edible Landscaping Nursery


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Beware of TyTy and Burgess. I recommend the KYSU site also.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Hi Moontraveler,

Please keep us informed of your success. I'm interested in acquiring a couple of paw paws if I can squeeze them into my small 1/4? acre lot.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I have found a source for Paw Paw in POTS! They are available from Edible Landscaping of Ashton, VA,. They offer 4 types including a native cultivar, Davis and Well's Delight, all selected for their taste, productivity, etc. Now I must figure out WHERE to plant two trees!

Here is a link that might be useful: Edible Landscaping


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Also try Oikos nursery in MI. They have a nice selection of paw paws and other native plants. They have a nice printed catalog and everything is in pots. I have purchased from them and they are a primo nursery in my opinion. Phone number is 269-624-6233.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

How old were your trees before they had fruit?


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Burnt Ridge Nursery in Washington state has a selection of them for mailorder as well. Plus he is a very good nurseryman. I've dealt with him for over two years and his motto seems to be "the customer is always right".

Here is a link that might be useful: Burnt Ridge Nursery


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

  • Posted by ezawada z9 CA Livermore (My Page) on
    Fri, Apr 25, 03 at 8:48

GRapeNut-thanks for the info on Burnt Ridge !!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Got my paw paws at Wayside gardens
Patty


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I got chickasaw plums from Oikos and they came in great shape. I recommend them. Paul.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I just found 3 PawPaws in my yard.Do I need different kinds to get fruit? Two of them are about 5 ft tall the other is just a seedling. How do I tell if I have the right ones?


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Two or more pawpaw trees will increase your chances of getting fruit.First you need flowers so watch for them early in Spring before the leaves are out.I did get a single Asimina triloba to fruit here in Hillsborough County, Fla. It is thought by some experts to be the furthest one known this far south to fruit.Paul.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Miko,
It's quite possible that your 3 pawpaws are all essentially the same plant, though they could be 3 different seedlings. Pawpaws tend to grow in clumps/groves, with root suckers coming up fairly far away from the 'original' seedling. The resulting trees are all geneticly identical, and as such are not effective in pollinating one another's flowers. It would be a good idea to get another one and plant it to ensure the likelihood of cross-pollination.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

stark bro. offered two this yr. have them and they are doing great.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

This is an older thread but here goes..

If you buy one grafted cultivar and treat it well you will end up with two different varieties in a few years. The cultivar you buy will eventually put up "native type" root suckers, so in time you will end up with a little grove of pawpaws with two types of fruit. You will get cross pollination without having to buy two trees. I am not sure how long it takes the suckers to become bearing age though.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Revisiting this thread after an absence.
The 'hybrids' you mention in the original post aren't really hybrids - most of the named varieties are just selections that have been made from native populations for their fruit size or quality.
There are a few named varieties that have been selectively bred, by cross-pollinating one named variety with another named variety, and then selecting the seedling offspring with the best fruit, but that doesn't make them a hybrid - just a named variety with known parentage.

Glenn has a point, grafted selections on seedling rootstock will eventually start suckering, and the rootstock suckers will be genetically different from the grafted selection - voila! a second variety.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Anybody in Zone 5 have a Paw-Paw tree ?

This has got to be one of the coolest names for a tree.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I know a fellow who lives out in the boonies near Paw Paw Illinois, well north of the tree's native range. The town was named for a large paw paw grove, apparently planted by native paw paw enthusiasts.

This fellow is a fruit nut anyway, so of course he had to plant some paw paw trees. Last time I was up there, they were big and bushy, but they hadn't fruited yet. (Though how he could tell, with all those leaves, is beyond me!) He's in either Zone 5a or 4b.

If you decide to try Glenn's idea, it would be a good idea to put a permanent label on the original grafted tree, so you'll always know which one it is. You could even graft cuttings from the original onto some (not all!) of the suckers. That way, even if the original trunk dies, you would still have cross-pollination.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Just found this pawpaw thread, very cool. There's a fellow in Harpers Ferry WV, Neal Peterson, who has been working on hybridizing pawpaws from the best plants he could find from every pawpaw collection in the US. This is his life's work, it has been going on for 25 years. He has three hybrid cultivars available this year.

Neal is the founder of the Pawpaw Foundation.

Pamela

Here is a link that might be useful: Peterson Pawpaws website


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Lukifell,

Hi, I live in zone 5, central Penna. and the paw-paws are growing fine here! I decided to plant them when I discoved some wild paw-paws on my land. They bloom, but don't bear. Don't know if it is the shade or lack of pollinators. I have bought about 4-5 varieties, from Starks or Miller's Nurseries, or Edible Landscaping.

Last year I had my first fruit, delicious. I had to hand pollinate from the wild trees, as only one of my trees blossomed. Mine are about 5 years old. The fruit was delicious over vanilla yogurt.

A nearby friend has a couple trees and had an enormous crop. She had planted them from seeds she got at a local harvest fair. So I stuck some seeds in the ground last year too.

Cynthia


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I just planted two grafted trees about 18" long.... one is sunflower, and the other is ruby. The nurseryman that sold them to me said that he had a tree that fruit in a container. he also said that some grafted trees didn't fruit until 5 years later.... any ideas on when will it fruit for me?
Bass


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

  • Posted by Chills 6b (??) Mi (My Page) on
    Tue, Apr 13, 04 at 15:40

I bit the bullet and ordered one of the Peterson varieties.

I have two that were planted two years ago, neither one has done very much in the past couple years. Probably each has put on only about 2-4" (yes, inches) in that time. Another two I planted last year (Davis Selections) each put on over a foot last year alone.

The new one will make five Pawpaws in my yard and I hope get me closer to one day picking my own.

~Chills


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I drove up to Berryville, VA last Sunday, where Neal Peterson grows his pawpaws, to pick up my order. He told me I shouldn't expect any pawpaw fruits until 2007. This season the plants will be sulking a bit because they hate being transplanted, so they will not put on any new growth. Next 2 years they should grow well, and will form buds in summer of 2006 for the next season's flowering. If I'm attentive to pollination and the plants are happy, I should get fruit in 2007.

They do need some sun to bear fruit, the more sun the more fruit.

My plants are doing well so far, leafing out nicely. Now settling in for the long wait for pawpaws.

Pamela


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

This year my 6-foot (Overleese?) bloomed profusely and showed tons of tiny fruit which fell off the tree before getting any larger than 1/4 inch long. However, the 2-foot tall Davis, in a container, bloomed and set 1 fruit which is now the size of a quarter. A slug, I think, ate a chunk out of it when it was the size of a nickel, along with some leaf material. Surprisingly, the fruit is sizing up and the wound has scarred over and is shrinking. Sorry if I sound too concerned. Its just that I've been waiting years to get any fruit at all. On a brighter note, the slug never returned probably because the pawpaw bark and leaves are toxic.
Mwahahaha..


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Increasing fruit set for pawpaw

Since pawpaws are pollinated by carrion flies and gnats, has anyone put roadkill or rotten meat in the branches of their pawpaw trees to increase fruit set?


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Does ANYBODY sell 3 year old plants? I HATE having to wait so long for fruit!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I have been researching different sources for paw paws and I am considering this company. They offer all stages, from seeds to 4 year old grafted trees. I have not bought any yet but my research and correspondence with Blossom seems the most promising so far.

Here is a link that might be useful: Grafted 3 and 4 year old trees


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

The Pawpaw I got from Peterson's was much bigger looking than those on that website.

I think they were grafted three year old plants. The stem caliper was in excess of 1/2 inch.

~Chills


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I have paw paw trees in Massachusetts. They have survived the winters well which have been very cold. We had prolonged cold in January with temperatures around -20F with a strong wind chill. My largest young tree had one fruit last year. I stored the 8 seeds in the refrigerator and all of them germinated this spring. I have read that the tap roots resent being disturbed. I noticed with the seedling germination that the roots were very pronounced. I think that older trees are very difficult to transplant because of the type of root growth.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

My first one was Sunflower which is self pollinating and produced lots of fruit by itself and the taste is absolutely great. Since then, I started overleese and a couple others,including some wild ones just for taste. If
you don't have room for two, then the sunflower is my choice. It to, taste like vanilla custard with mango overtones.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Pic of my sunflower fruit

Here is a link that might be useful: [IMG]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v292/greenhummer/Pawpaw.jpg[/IMG]


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

If you live in a hot-summer southern climate like I do, consider "Mango" variety as first choice and probably "Overleese" second (the first is my experience, the latter both mine and Clemson University's). I have "Mitchell" also fruiting OK in a partially shaded position, but "Sunflower" in full sun a few hours per day is sunscalded (I think). The three new varieties from Peterson are doing fine but they are in 25 gallon pots and haven't seen a southern summer sun yet. I need to get some "Duckworth" varieties (A&B) as these are from Louisiana and will grow as far south as north Florida.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Paw Paw Questions (3):

SUNFLOWER CULTIVAR SELF-FERTILE?

*The ‘Sunflower’ Paw-Paw cultivar is often commercially listed online as self-fertile; however, some websites which seem somewhat ‘scholarly’ seem to indicate that this cultivar has never been actually proven to be self-fertile. I’ve even seen is said that they are "partially" self-fertile – whatever that means (maybe it means unreliably, but occasionally; or maybe it means only a few of the flowers will be able to be self-compatibly fertile. Has anyone grown a single specimen and yet received fruit and/or knows the answer to this question?

NATURAL POLINATION OF PAW-PAWS

*I was considering, if the ‘Sunflower’ cultivar is not really self-fertile, planting 2 separate Paw-Paw cultivars. Since they are mostly only pollinated by flies and ‘scavenging beatles’, how far is the most I should keep them apart?

FORCED POLINATION OF PAW-PAWS

Can I detach the flowers of one Paw-Paw and then bring it over to the (attached) flowers of another Paw-Paw and fertilize the flower which is not detached in this way?

Thanks,
Steve


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

NJBiology,

You really should plant 2 different ones for best pollination. If you don't have room for separate trees, just plant them together in one hole, and they'll grow, functionally, as one plant.

Paw Paws have purple/black, wierd looking flowers (remind me of the flowers of the tropical 'Bat Plant' minus the long filaments. They are pollinated by carrion-loving flies and beetles. The best way to get good pollination is to hang some sort of rotting meat in each tree. There was an article in 'Michigan Gardener' last year about a paw paw grower/breeder in S. Michigan, and he went fishing every year just before the blooming season and caught carp, hanging one in each tree. He also picked up roadkilled squirrels and bunnies. In lieu of carp or roadkill, he said chicken leg quarters were fine. His suggestion was to hang it as high in the tree as possible, from the taller, wispy branches, so that racoons, etc., didn't get the bait. Then, stay away from the trees for a week or so, until the worst of the stench is over.

Disgusting, but effective, according to the article. Last year in May, we had a major family medical crisis and I didn't get to do this, but I'm planning to do it this year -- looks like my paw paws will be blooming in about a week if the weather stays in the 60's/40's like the NWS is predicting.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Mine are blooming now, but the flowers are all still female and I can't cross pollenate yet (and while one tree has dozens of flowers, the other one that's got flowers has only 3)

~Chills


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Can't you just use a small feather duster or soft-bristled paint brush to hand pollinate? Are there a lot of blooms?


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I bought a paw-paw seedling 6 years ago from my local Home Depot. I discovered a couple years later that the mature plant will need pollen from a different tree in order to produce fruit. I have since then bought another seedling but not in time since my first plant matured enough last year to produce flowers.

Fortunately, I discovered some mature paw-paw trees growing in a local park. I took two flowers with ripe pollen from paw-paws growing in the park and used them to pollinate my tree. I found a Q-tip handy to dab in the pollen of the collected flowers and then dab it on to the stigma of flowers of my tree.

Flower with unripe pollen

Flower with mature pollen

Tiny paw-paw fruit cluster

I had about 30 fruit from my tree last September.

I discovered that I not a fan of the fruit but my mom is addicted to it. She already has plans to turn the fruit into icecream this fall.

Andrea:)


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Excellent tip! I will probably do the same next spring. I have a 6' paw paw tree that I bought at a local nursery. It was the only one they had, so I bought two bare root seedlings via mail order. Most likely, the seedlings won't be mature enough to flower, so I'll probably do like you and find another mature paw paw pollen donor. :-)


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My 17 years of experience.

Hi everyone. I ordered a Pawpaw From a mail order catalog 17 years ago. It is most likely a seedling and not a grafted variety. Year by year it grew from a 1 foot twig to an 8 foot tree with 3 inch diameter. It flowered in its 8th year and then progessively increased the number of flowers but no fruit. Then in 2004 fruit appeared that fell off within 2 weeks of flowering. I assumed it was the lack of a second tree that caused this. In 2008 the fruit set and by September I had 26 Pawpaws. I got 6 of them and te racoons got the rest. This year the tree will be covered as harvest approaches.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Can someone please help? I really want to plant a couple pawpaw trees, but not sure which to get for my area. I live in south Mississippi (Gulf Coast area). I will most likely have to order because I have not found any locally. Should I get grafted trees, and what varieties would you suggest for my area? Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not, and 8 years experience

I planted 2 paw paws 8 yrs ago (I think), the only ones I could find that late in the season, from Raintree b/c Burnt Ridge shipped by zone instead of by who ordered first (ME! like the previous FALL!:( And barely a cavalier apology!) But anyway, one of them got smushed to the ground by a construction worker and I gave it up for dead, but didn't get around to buying a new one. A year later it began regrowing, and caught up with his friend in like a couple years. They flowered w/o making fruit, then made fruit that didn't stick, but by last year we had more than we could eat or freeze. They taste a little different from each other, both good, though one is no doubt rootstock, not the graft. Tom Wahl of redfernfarm.com (he sells selected seed grown varieties here in Iowa) says it's normal for them to "practice" flowering and fruiting a couple years. My trees are 15' so far, which I thought was as big as they were sposed to get. I planted the same two varieties at my Mom's at the same time; they are literally half the height, and barely fruiting b/c her soil is so poor.

Gladner, prolly doesn't matter what you get as long as it's from a good vendor. I do recommend Red Fern Farm, Raintree, Oikos, even, grudgingly, Burnt Ridge. My rootstock ie unselected variety is as good to me as my grafted variety (which is Sunflower or Wells; we also have a tiny Mango paw paw that is producing precociously and is my daughter's favorite). Don't sweat it! Prolly any paw paw will be worth celebrating!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I've heard that the flowers stink. How bad do they smell? i donated 2 )of different varieties) to my small city, and they are in a tiny park surrounded by houses. People walk a lot, so if they truly reek, we should find them another home before they get too big. They are only 2 feet tall, so it'll be a while before we get any fruit, I think. Thanks!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I have never noticed a bad smell. The carrion flies who pollinate can smell it, but I can't. Sometimes things are the way they should be. :)


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

The flower smell has been worrying me too! Its comforting to hear they're not too noticeably smelly. The flowers look really cool, but the whole "smell of rotting meat" thing kind of freaked me out a bit. I don't know if the fruit is worth hanging roadkill in my yard! >.<
I'll keep them on the horizon for my edible landscaping native novelty planting list.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Another paw-paw flower, in MA. Not a named cultivar.

--Jonathan


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I am excited to see others interested in paw paws. Most people I talk to have never even heard of them!

I planted two trees early last spring, and the dog ate one entire tree. I know - nothing is supposed to bother a paw paw, but she ate it! I put a tomato cage around the other one & purchased a new one, which I planted & caged.

They both suffered during Hurricane Gustav last year, so I didn't know if they'd come back, but both have new growth, I am happy to report. It will be a few years before I get fruit, if ever, but I am happy to have the trees!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I live south of the Illinois-Wisconsin border along Lake Michigan (2 miles from the lakeshore). I will be receiving three grafted paw paw plants from One Green World and three from Peterson Paw Paws. The cultivars I will be receiving are NC-1, Sunflower, Overleese, Susquehanna, Shenandoah and Rappahannock. Yes, I went overboard. I'm planning to grow them in a circle (semi circle for now, more if the current selections survive) on a slope near a creek. I like to know the flowering order of the cultivars so that those early flowering ones will be planted at the top of the slope and those late flowering ones at the bottom of the slope to avoid late frost. Is this logical or not worth the effort? Any input will be appreciated.
Ben
Beach Park, IL


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Ben,

Congratulations on your new adoptions!

It seems like each of my two pawpaws (Sunflower and Taytoo) have staggered flowering so that on a single plant there are flowers whose petals have all dried and are shedding pollen while on the same plant, flowers that have not even opened yet. So I expect it does not matter too much as far as pollination time goes. Also, I've seen tiny flies (like fruit flies but darker) on the flowers wihtout me doing anything special to attract them

And with frost killing the flowers, for the same reason, I don't think one or two days of late spring frost will kill ALL the flowers. We had a 28F frost a few days ago and none of the flowers were affected. But someone with more experience and more varieties hopefully will chime in here.

Good luck (and make sure you give them some shade and plenty of mulch those first two summers)

-Ron


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

To ben773,
Don't worry about that because the diference of the temperature would be insignificant. But try not to plant the trees in a windy zone (top of the slope).
And, I saw that you have some cultivars from Peterson.

I'm looking for wooden parts of the Peterson's pawpaws. If you have and want to trade, I'll pay all the costs, a reward and also to Neal Peterson for their license.

Thanks in advance.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Thanks Ron and manuelconde for the input. As of right now, the saplings are in a state of stasis. The young buds are greenish but show no significant increase in size yet - 3 weeks after planting. Very slow. Manuelconde-Neal Peterson is getting his pawpaw propagated by two commercial growers this year and will be more widely available in the next few years, I hear. I will update the progress of my sapling in the future. Happy growing!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Dear moontraveler,

When you used the word "hybrid" it is hard to know what you mean exactly, a hybrid normally referring to a cross between two separate species, but I have a hunch that you are referring to SEEDLING paw paws, as opposed to named cultivars. In answer to WHERE folk get or buy their trees, we'll I've just had shipped to me (in L.A. Calif.) 7 highly touted cultivars from a wonderful nursery in Oregon called One Green World...

They came in by fedex in special packing boxes, ALL perfectly secured by ingenious methods, all without the slightest damage. These were the varieties Mango, KSU-Atwood, five Peterson-Paw Paws (Susquehanna, Shenandoah, Wabash, Potomac, Allegeny). I have three 3 ten year olds I bought at a local nursery that don't offer these any longer -- Sunflower, Rebecca's Gold, Wells)

I happen to live in citrus country, very, very hot and dry in the Summer which is NOT a Paw Paw friendly venue, but I babied these trees like noting else I've ever grown -- shade cloth all summer for five years, six inch mulch, misting stands, AND letting my hose run at very low pressure just about all day when the temperatures reached 110 degrees plus...they are ten feet tall now and need no sun protection, the leaves not even burning, and a pretty impressive crop of delicious fruit...which I have a hard time getting others to taste.

The Peterson cultivars are supposed to be highly superior, much bigger than what my fruit I get now, these ready to fall of or e picked with first week of September. I simply LOVE this fruit and have ten all inter spread amongst their more tropical cousins, cherimoyas and Atemoyas, which thrice here if you water them enough.

Hope I have been of some help,

Guy


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

In October I bought the Susquehanna and the Shenandoah from Edible Landscape or Raintree, can't remember right now. They arrive in good shape. I planted them as soon as they arrived and I plan to shade them for two seasons.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

This winter I obtained five Paw Paws that came from the now defunct LSU program. They are between three and four years old and I can see the small beginings of flower buds already. These were prepared for full sun planting last year. I'm hoping that I only have to wait a couple years for fruit. When I get fruit I'd like to compare them with some of the named Paw Paws. I live past their native southern range so it will be interesting to seehow they do.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Has anyone tried the Mango or Shannendoah & Susquehanna varieties? How do they compare? I'm hoping to plant up in Massachusetts this spring and agonizing about what to try. Thanks!


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

Is this thread really 10 years old?

Probably the oldest thread I've seen yet.

Anyway, back to the paw paw discussion.


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RE: Paw Paw hybrids or not?

I noticed that a couple people mentioned One Green World in Portland OR. From my searching over the years, they seem to have the best selection (15 or so!). i've ordered from them in the past, with good results. good luck.


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