Black elder (forget the variety names, they are nearly irrelevant IMO) can grow into a very large tree, about 10 metres tall or more. Mine is in a very tiny garden, and I hack it back regularly to keep it to a manageable size. The green berries are toxic. The ripe berries are slightly less toxic if eaten raw, but cooked they are perfectly safe, and taste remarkably like blackberries. The fresh flowers are edible, too, but don't use older flowers - they stink of cat's urine!

Nothing much grows near mine, even mint. The elder seems to kill off everything around it - perhaps simply because it has a very aggressive and large root system. My tree was planted in partial shade, but it does get some afternoon sun, and of course, the taller it gets, the more sun it's been getting! It likes a fair bit of moisture. It may produce suckers on your side of the fence (and elsewhere!), so remove them as they appear unless you want elder trees all over the place.

Oh gosh, that's not good news! I never heard of that.

'Black Beauty' needs another S. nigra clone to set fruit as it needs cross pollination. I have both 'Black Beauty' and 'Guincho Purple'. Elderberry flowers and fruits on new wood, so its easy to cut back and keep more managable.

Does anyone know a source for elderberry Black Beauty in Pennsylvania? Thanks.

I got some very nice little plants of "Black Beauty" from DiggingDog.com. potted them up, and they are growing very vigorously. since we have a deer problem, won't put them out until they get some size on them, probably late fall.

Michael

Do you think this elderberry would be OK to grow in my zone.? As it grows on new wood, it should be OK if it dies back to the ground shouldn't it? Also, there is snow cover all winter. Thanks

How far from each other can you plant Black Beauty elderberries and still have polination? Is it done by bees or buterflies or do they have to be close for the wind to do the job? I juts bought one and the label talks about berries but didn't mention that you need two plants to have them, of course... so I'll have to buy another one and I don't know how far I can plant it from the other one.
Thanks
Hanne

Do not buy another 'Black Beauty'. You need another S. nigra cultivar but not another 'Black Beauty' to set berries.

Shopko (in Wisconsin) has tons of these on sale for $6 - I got a few & I'm looking for more info or pics - are they more upright, or rounded?

Never quite sure what "semi" or part shade means -- if dappled shade would it still keep its dark color? Actually it would get some direct sun very early in the morning about 6 or 7, and looks very cool back-lit by the sun.

I picked up a Black Lace sambucus nigra at Home Depot late last week, and after reading this thread went back and purchased a Black Beauty today. There were still a few of each left, for a bit under $12 each. The Home Depot was the one nearest Camp Hill, PA, just off of I 81 on the Harrisburg Expressway going toward Carlisle--it's on the left soon after Lowe's and KMart, and at the back of the same shopping center that Circuit City is in.

I had hesitated to get two of the English variety because of the greater size and toxicity if the berries are uncooked, but they do seem to be pruning them to make shrubs--all of the plants had at least four leaders, and looked more like shrubs than trees.

Has anyone managed to keep either of these to shrub size? What time of year do you prune it, and into what shape? How long do the branches need to get in order to produce blossoms?

Do the local wildlife in the USA seem to know how to deal with the berries? I have a few sambucus canadensis, our native elderberry form, in my garden, and the birds of course make off with most of the berries from those. (I pick the blossoms for tea, so don't really mind!) If they won't eat the sambucus nigra berries, I will need to plan how to use them.... :)

Eibren,

I wish someone had commented on this. I purchased a Black Lace
sambucus earlier this summer. The website I bought it from
said that the berries were edible, and did not mention
them needing cooked because of toxicity.

I actually bought 2, Elderberries, the other, is Sutherland Gold Sambucus. So, now my question is, do I buy two more
of the same, for pollination??

The website did not mention any of this.
Moonshine Designs Nursery
http://www.djroger.com/moon_idx.html

I hope that someone can answer these questions for me.

Also, I don't seem to be having any luck getting them
to grow. They are about the same height as when I put them
in the ground. Although they do have new leaves quite often.

Mary
z 5b KS

One elder tree will produce fruit without the help of another. Many birds can eat the berries without coming to harm. They've evolved to be able to cope, and their digestive systems are vastly different from that of humans. Never trust a bird's judgement on what it safe to eat and what is not! They're judging for themselves, not you.

The American Elder (Sambuccus canadensis) and the European Elder (S. nigra) both have berries which are toxic when green. Treat them in the same ways.

Anybody selling you something will not tell you the downside of it, you know!!

I contacted the seller of the Elderberry trees I bought.
Here is their response.

"All members of the elder family are self pollinating.
It is not necessary to have "pollinators"."

Thanks,

Roger & Wanda
Moonshine Designs
http://www.djroger.com or
http://www.moonshinedesigns.biz or
http://www.moonshinedesignsnursery.com

Mary
z 5b KS

I know that I am late to this party, but I was considering buying some elder plants and was interested in black varieties for their ornamental properties. Here is an excerpt from a winemakers site about their edibility:
---------------------
Elderberries grow wild throughout much of America, Canada, Mexico, the British Isles, Europe and Asia and have long been a favorite for wine. Sambucus simpsonii is the dominant elder from Louisiana through Florida. North and west of that, Sambucus canadensis (American Elder) dominates. Related cousins are the Sambucus cerulea (Blue Elder), Sambucus mexicana (Mexican Elder), Sambucus melanocarpa (Black Berried Elder) � all of which are edible. In Europe and Asia the popular edible elder is Sambucus nigra (Black Elder).

There are several minor elders that are toxic. These are not common, but do exist. A good edible plants guide will help you steer clear of them.
----------------------

Here is a link that might be useful: Winemaker

Lots of mixed info in here as to whether a second plant is needed for pollenation. Is there someone out there who knows for sure?
I bought both Black Lace and Black Beauty and am now wondering where to put the 2nd one after seeing how vigorous they are in the pots I put them in. How far apart they can be and still pollenate each other. What pollenates Elders? Thank you in advance.

i know this is a old post but ill set the record strait on growing these plants for future readers. if you want berries you need a different cultivar of the species. S. canadensis needs another cultivar of s. canadensis for fruit. same for s. nigra. s. canadensis and s. nigra are different subspecies and won't pollinate each other. hope in the future this helps clear the confusion.

Black Beauty is typically used as ornamental tree, but it's a Sambucus nigra and so, if cross-pollination takes place, the plant will bear edible fruits :)

I don't know about other Elders but regarding Sambucus nigra if you don't prune you'll get a tree. Small but still a tree. Pollination is by insects, mainly flies. Sambucus nigra

garden gal, where did you hear that the different elders cross pollinating? I've read a lot on them before i bought mine and never heard of this. they say they self pollinate but i had 1 american elder for 4 years before i added my S. nigra and other S. canadesis. it didn't produce fruit until my other plants matured and i have many red elder growing wild around my property. i have black lace, black beauty, wylewood, bob gordon and a wild variety i found on a woods road. I've also read that Marge , a S.nigra cultivar has the heaviest production of berries. nearly 2xs as much as any S, canadesis cultivar but only produces on 2nd year canes. my S. nigra cultivars set fruit and ripen nearly a month earlier than the S.canadesis plants even tho. S.canadesis is reported zone3 hardy and S. nigra is zone 4. I'm in zone 3b/4a n. Maine.

Every garden center this side of the moon seems to be mixing up black beauty (gerda) and black lace. Driving me crazy. Black lace is self fertile but does better with another type. Black beauty is not self fertile at all. They both compliment each other. I already own black lace. Every single black beauty Gerda I've checked out is actually a black lace. Do they think we're stupid or do they even care that we could plant the wrong type and wait 4 years to discover we have to start again.... Rant over. Anyone know where to get black beauty that is not a black lace in disguise please???

Should be very easy to tell the difference....even in quite young plants. Black Beauty has 'normal' sambucus foliage.....just a very dark, almost black, purple. Back Lace has highly dissected foliage that looks more like a laceleaf maple than an elderberry. Same color as Black Beauty but very different in appearance.

My friend just put in Black Beauty that the nursery told her was Black lace. I explained the difference to her and she's going to let them know. The black lace is daintier too. Not quite as vigorous as the Beauty. My Black Beauties have all come back from bad gopher damage a few years ago but the Black lace is still struggling.

Yep black lace seems a bit prettier, but i have a perfect spot for one more. From reaearch black beauty cross pollinates well with black lace (which is somewhat self pollinating). Black beauty needs a pollinator despite the misinformation warning at the top here. Both are considerably smaller than original nigra. Still cannot find a black beauty for sale. Some advertised, but then go on to describe black lace. Sigh... I'm making a bit of a windbreak for my apples btw. Have some varieties of hazel + a black mulberry.

The Black Beauty is easy to start from cuttings if you know someone that has one.