Pudge - hopefully you will run across 'Avalanche' yet this spring/early summer. Being new, I was surprised to see it at so many garden centers in the metro area. Around here? Not a prayer.

I have failed miserably with Festuca glauca in the past. It has always been short lived for me. Survives for a winter or so and then is a gonner.
Jan

Pudge, You absolutely must let me know if your Stipa gigantea makes it through next winter. That is one very pretty grass that I was too chicken to try.

Sharon

Pudge, I was thinking of you when I bought a Miscanthus sinensis var. purpurascens Flame Grass at Home Hardware today, they only had the one left....It did say zone 3 on the back of the tag, crossing fingers ;)

Tomorrow I'm going to divide my Calamagrostis acutiflora 'Karl Foerster' and move it away from the foundation of the house. Hopefully this will help it grow!

Sharon

Sharons2, Stipa gigantea is gonna have a tough time since I think I was sent a dead plant - it still hasn't broken dormancy (was sent as a dormant root). It's been living the good life in my heated greenhouse since I received it so it should have started growth by now. I will have to email to try to get a replacement.

Good luck with the Miscanthus, Sharon - mine are coming along albeit slowly. I have growth on another Miscanthus but can't remember if it's Blutenwonder or Malepartus. This is another one plant near the foundation.

Still no growth on Erianthus ravennae, Panicum virgatum or Little Blue Stem. Cool season grasses, on the other hand, are growing like crazy.

So...any success with any miscanthus out there?

Strangely enough, I have had some of the oddly-colored Carex comans varieties winter this year (has maybe happened only once before?), but no signs of life yet from any miscanthus. I was cautiously optimistic, since they were still solid in the ground, but now, the sheath bundles are loose enough to pull out. I think they're goners.

Success in my garden with Miscanthus sinensis Blutenwunder and Malepartus - at least, I think it's one of each plant. I swear I had tags placed beside the plants but can't find them now. One of 3 plants did not come back. Of the two that did, one was planted near the house foundation and one out in the yard in front of a Cotoneaster hedge. (I was almost giddy this afternoon when I discovered it had lived and promptly moved it to the grass bed).

Sorgastrum nutans (Indian Grass) and Schizachyrum scoparium (Little Blue Stem) did not winter. Hmm, I thought these would be the toughest of the tough. Erianthus ravennae (zone 5) did not make it either.

Spodiopogon sibiricus (?Frost Grass) did winter. Some Panicum virgatum also made it, but some did not. And I'm not certain about Achnantherum calamagrostis - I got something growing there but also agressive runners that look like they originate from those plants. It could be some quack grass too, I suppose. I guess I should dig up the runners and see what happens with the original plant.

The Deschampsia cespitosa Schottland have sent up their plumes and wow, I'm lovin' this plant. Jim from Bluestem mentioned how nice they are in bloom and he is certainly right about that. Looks like the D. Bronzelscheir may be getting ready to bloom as well.

And after 3 years the Helictotrichon sempervirens (Blue Oat Grass) is finally going to send up plumes. Yay!

Overall I'm pretty happy with the grass bed, although the Melica has grown twice as tall as last year (they're close to 3' without blooms) so I had to move some of them today. There are still more poorly placed with that height, but I think they'll have to wait and I'll just trim them back for this year.

Pudge, I spent all day transplanting all my orn. grasses and WSings into a holding bed and then I come in to read that your Sorgastrum nutans (Indian Grass) and Schizachyrum scoparium (Little Blue Stem) didn't winter, bummer :(

Yes, finally my Helictotrichon sempervirens is going to bloom this year too....I've had this grass for about 4 years now!

You grass-lovers probably all have this one, but I finally was able to find a Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Overdam' in Lloyd the other day, I now need to keep my eye open for the 'Avalanche' and Deschampsia cespitosa now ;)

Sharon

An observation about Calamagrostis 'Avalance'. This was impressive when I got it. Granted the leaves are narrow so the variegation didn't jump out and hit you in the eye...but it had a nice silvery look even from a distance. However, now that it has sent up numerous green seed stalks, the whole plant essentially looks far more green than variegated. From even a relatively short distance, it looks all green. I do recall, last year, someone mentioned they were not impressed with 'Overdam'. Perhaps for the same reason? Methinks Calamagrostis just has too narrow of a leaf to be a striking variegated grass.

This, of course, is just one person's opinion/observation. Would be interested in other people's reaction to 'Avalance'. BTW, it is growing very well and I do like it....but wouldn't put it in the top tier of a variegated grasses.
Jan

Pudge, I recall you asked about the invasiveness of Calamagrostis epigejos a while back in this thread?
I planted it last year; this year it remains nicely "clumped" but with one offset about 3" away. So far, so good, but too early to tell.
Rick Darke, in The Color Encyclopedia of Ornamental Grasses, says:
"...forms thick clumps... A mildly invasive spreader that self-sows, yet a planting at Longwood Gardens has been maintained for nearly a decade with modest effort, using a spade to remove errant growth every few years and scratching out unwanted seedings."

Thanks for the info Lori. The plumes, from what I have seen in pictures, are really beautifiul. Has yours sent up the seed heads yet?

I still haven't located Calamagrostis Avalanche, Jan, and it's too bad the variegation doesn't show up from a distance. Maybe when the plant is a bigger clump the variegation will be more pronounced?

Here's a pic of Calamagrostis Eldorado - I notice the new growth (the yellower blades to the left) show the variegation more than the older.

Thought I'd flip up a couple of pics. The first is Melica ciliata - from seed this year but it's already sent up plumes. (Thanks to Rick - I think - who recommended this grass). The blue grass in the center is an unknown - seed collected last year in Cochrane.

And this is Deschampsia caespitosa "Schotland" (the blonder plumes) along with Deschampsia caespitosa "Bronzelschier".

Lovely, simply lovely, Pudge!

I re-read my other post and see that I couldn't get an 'h' in Avalanche. The 'h' key must not have been working that day! LOL
Jan

Ohhhh, I LIKE!!!! Two more on my wish list, thanks Pudge! ;)

Although an annual, I've really have fallen in love with this little bunny grass, I have it growing in an old wash tub, soon the 'Indian Summer' Rubeckia's will be blooming so they'll grow nicely together.

Bumping this up so it doesn't fall off the end. Since I am doing so....

In my travels I have come across a huge clump of an unknown grass. It appears to be rhizomatous and covers a 15x15 area or larger. Located on dry ground in the middle of a mowed lawn. It is about 6-7 feet tall as of the first week of August with no signs of seed formation. The center of this large planting has died out. (I suppose it can't be ruled out that the center is purposely open and was used to plant another crop. LOL.) It is a very old planting and obviously has thrived for a number of years. The zone in that area would be 3b or so.
I have been told that when it blooms in Sept-Oct it looks like Pampas Grass. Haven't seen it in bloom myself....so I will believe it when I see it!
I am guessing.....and I am a mighy poor guesser....that it is a Miscanthus of sorts. Maybe Miscanthus sacchariflorus?
Is there another tall, late blooming, spreading grass that could be mistaken, by the untrained eye, as Pampas grass?

Rick if you read this thread.....perhaps you have seen this grass and already identified it? It is on your route to Da Range. On Hwy 33, near the junction of Hwy 53.

One more question. Is anybody growing or tried to grow Miscanthus sinensis 'Silver Feather'?
Jan

In fact I do recall seeing that planting along Hwy 33, Jan. I have always dismissed it as Miscanthus sacchiflorus as the species is hardy into zone 3, but I've never had a close up look. I am going up to the cabin the week after Labor day and probably 2 weeks later too, so I can stop and get a positive I.D. if it is flowering. But still, sacchiflorus is the species that runs, not sinensis. And sinensis is far less cold hardy, although it varies with the cultivar.

An update on my mature Melica ciliata: It bloomed ferociously(well, you know what I mean) this season, and except for some that I cut to dry, all seed heads were left to mature. Even so, I am getting a small second bloom now. An unexpected pleasure! Have extra seed, should anyone desire . . .

A fellow GWer here in Minnesota gave me some seedlings of Jobe's Tears this past spring. From what I was reading, I didn't even know if my growing season here in Minneapolis, Minnesota would be long enough. But it's doin' its thing right now! I'll be posting pics later.

More additions this year are:
Miscanthus sinensis 'Kleine Fontaine'
M.s. 'Iwo Jima'
M.s. 'Huron Sunrise'

Rick

Rick - So, I wasn't way off base guessing it might be Miscanthus sacchariflorus. I think I came across info somewhere that this had naturalized in the prairies/zone 2? Maybe someone can comment on this?

I will be traveling that way again in late October. If the snow isn't flying and the camera isn't frozen, I will try to get a picture.

Your new acquistions sound great.
Jan

I'm pretty excited - I haven't 'inspected' the grass bed lately but today, while snipping some seed heads for drying I came across blooms on Spartina pectinata (finally got this to germinate and the plant is now doing exceptionally well). Also blooms on Panicum virgatum and Calamagrostis brachytricha. I'll post pics when the heads push up a little more but in the meantime, yay!

The Miscanthus plants are all doing well although no blooms yet. Success with wintering these plants (okay, I know, it's only been one winter) has me somewhat optimistic and I'll be trying a few more varieties next year, as well as some more Panicum varieties. I keep reading about Heavy Metal being a very nice plant...

Would anyone in the Saskatoon area happen to know which grass they have growing in many of their barrel planters throughout the city? It is the center of the planter, growing about 24" high, with purplish, beigy plumes about 5" long. I should have taken a picture - just plain forgot to. The grass itself was quite narrow - maximum 1/4".
I'd like to get a starting point as to how to identify it as I might try growing some next year (as long as the seed is viable). ; )

Shauna

Pennisetum setaceum Fountain Grass.

When I lived in Saskatoon, I remember reading an article in the newspaper that they overwinter them in the city greenhouses, that's how they get them to become big clumps. Perennial to zone 6-7, annual here, but they're so easy to start indoors each year.

Sharon

Thanks, Sharon. I'm not much up on grasses. But, I am learning just how attractive they can be. How can you tell when seed is ready?

Shauna

Oh you'll be able to tell, the plumes will crackle and take to the air ;)

Dear Ms OG Queen (Pudge)... any update on your Sorgastrum nutans (Indian Grass) and Schizachyrum scoparium (Little Blue Stem), earlier you said they did not winter, just wondering if by chance they did come thru later on?

Should I mulch mine with straw the first year I'm wondering?

I went to Bluestem website looking for grasses for next spring but they don't have any prices on their bareroots? Can you give me an approximate $?

TIA
Sharon

Oh yes, I'm also wondering if anyone grows Carex muskingumensis - Palm Sedge ? Any comments, photos?

Sharon

Yes, C. muskingumensis is tough as nails - prefers some moisture, interesting leaf arrangement. Also have the variegated variety 'Oehme', which I got as a plug and is taking forever to put on size.

OG Queen, lol - hardly, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

Last year Bluestem's prices were about $45 for 25 plugs. The plugs are healthy, well rooted and a good size. I've never been disappointed in the quality of Bluestem's plants.

I have C. muskingumensis Oehme, a division from a generous GW poster. It's beautiful and growing well - I'll get a photo of it later today.

Pudge, Holy macro... you ordered the plug trays of 25....how many plugs do you have growing in one patch of the Deschampsia Schottland and Bronzelschier in the Sept 4th thread?

I was thinking of ordering three bareroots of each plant, not the plugs?

You didn't comment on the Sorgastrum nutans (Indian Grass) and Schizachyrum scoparium (Little Blue Stem), I presume they are dead then ;)

Thanks for the comments on the Carex muskingumensis, I went ahead and placed a OG seed order with Gardens North.

CALAMAGROSTIS brachytricha
Carex muskingumensis
LUZULA nivea
MELICA altissima 'Atropurpurea'
Melica ciliata
SPARTINA pectinata

Any of them difficult to germinate?

I should also mention that GN have some "NEW" seeds at their website, they also have a 2006 collection called "Some Like it Hot" that look interesting ;)

Sharon

Sorry Sharon, I guess I shouldn't post early in the morning until I've finished the entire cup of coffee. I thought your question was on plug prices. Bare roots, I think, ran about $12.

I refuse to answer your question about the amount of plugs I bought on the grounds that it may incriminate me, LOL. Actually, when I ordered them the plug prices on those were $34 (in 2004) and I recall thinking that was a pretty good price for 25 plugs - 3 bare root plants would have been close in price. The plugs came with root ball intact and they were way larger than I had imagined they'd be. This year they look like full sized, mature plants. I will probably move a few out of there - I planted in groups of 5 or 7 (remember, they were plugs! )

I had one plant of Sorghastrum nutans come back to life - it's alive but not putting on a whole lot of growth. And I didn't have any Little Bluestem return - that one still surprises me. I wouldn't know how to advise you on this one - I suppose mulch, after the ground is frozen, wouldn't hurt.

Sharon, I think you already have Melica altissima atropurpurea - as far as I can tell, it's the same as Melica transsilvanica Red Spires. Have you already put in your order? Cause I could also send you Melica ciliata seed. Of the rest that you ordered, I had no trouble with Calamagrostis brachytricha aside from irregular germination. Spartina pectinata took it's sweet time is all - I had one germinate very quickly and grow large in the seed tray and when I was about to kind of give up hope on the rest, a few more sprouted.

Here's a shot of Carex Oehme

Well dang it anyway, yes I have already place my order, I did not realize that Melica altissima 'atropurpurea' was the same as M. transsilvanica Red Spires! I hate that when that happens...LOL

I quickly wrote Kristl an email to see if I could substitute it for Koeleria glauca instead. I'd better not cancel the M. ciliata, but thank you so much for your offer!

I guess its much cheaper if one buys a flat of plugs it the bareroots are at that price, but seriously do I really need 25 plants each of all the grasses I have picked out. LOL

I really like that Carex 'Oehme'!

Sharon

Has anyone seen the books on ornamental grass gardening by Piet Oudolf? (Or some of the plantings from Rick Darke's book.) Lots of exquisite pix of what one might do with 25 plugs of the same kind of grass - beautiful mass plantings! Definitely not for my situation right now, but if I had lots and lots of room, and lots and lots of energy...(or a bobcat, LOL!)

Lori, next time I'm at Coles I will have to look for that book....I do have the space, thatÂs for sure, but I'm only one woman to look after the entire gardens ;)

Does anyone successfully grow Eragrostis spectabilis or E. trichoides Purple Love Grass?

I caught Kristl just in time, sheÂs sending the Koeleria glauca instead, thank goodness.

Sharon

Hello Grass Gurus, I am a pitiful has-not in the world of OG and I would like to obtain a few specimens. Home Depot has some potted ones at a reasonable price - is now a good time to plant it? If not I will wait for spring.

NS, IMO, I would wait till spring, this way they have a whole season to grow a good root system and have a better chance of survival.

But if they are cheap, cheap, cheap, go for it ;)

Sharon

Errr no they are not cheap. $7-$10 for a 2-gallon pot. But they look healthy as in beginning to enter dormancy, and I can see what the foliage will look like... but if it's better to wait until spring I will take your advice. Bit short of cash anyway, last weekend I got a new roof and a new puppy... yikes!

Yeah, I'd wait until spring, too, NS - what kind of grasses were you thinking of planting?

Lori, I have seen pictures of mass plantings like you describe, and I have on more than one occasion considered this. I do have plans for another grass bed, and thought about a mass planting instead of a mixed. I've often wondered what the best choice would be for a planting of this type. Maybe it's because Calamagrostis Karl Foerster is (so far) my favourite grass, but I think if I try this type of planting, it will be with Karl - it has about one month of not looking like much of anything when it's cut back in spring. Blue Oat grass would also be nice, IMO, and always looks good regardless of the season.

Pudge is your Melinis nerviglumis sending up any plumes yet, mine aren't :(

The one I had my eye on (I think) was flame grass, which as I look up the sc. name would be Miscanthus purpurascens. Looked nice. There was also one that had a big purplish seed head like a giant barley head. I didn't really look closely as I was being dragged to the roofing aisle by DH. I will shop more extensively in the spring.

I was also wondering if anyone knows about native Manitoba grasses, there is one we always called Turkey Foot Grass that has a purplish seed head shaped like a turkey foot with three "toes". But real turkey foot grass is Big Bluestem and this stuff is short, only 2' or so. I see it in the ditches in some rural areas. Any ideas? I actually might try planting some in my garden experimentally.

Big bluestem is quite variable depending on the site. In dry, sandy areas here it might grow only 2.5ft, but in rich, moist sites it can grow 8ft or more. There are historic accounts of people riding on horseback, and barely seeing over the grass.

Now that's a TALL grass prairie!

Sharon - no, the Melinis nerviglumis has not bloomed for me, either. That's the second time I've tried (aka ruby grass, pink crystals, Rhyncheletrum nerviglume). I guess the season just isn't long enough - I started them quite early (as did you, as I recall) and had good sized transplants.

NS, the link below is a nursery from Argyle MB and has some seeds/plants/info on prairie native grasses. They say Big Bluestem grows to 6'.

Here is a link that might be useful: Prairie Habitats

Thought I would share this, just got a newsletter from Bluestem and they too suggest you need to take into account the likelihood of the plants surviving your winter after a fall planting, as the roots need time to establish in the soil before freeze-up. A good guide is that the plants should be in the ground before the killing frost date in your area.

Unfortunately most warm season grasses are not suitable for transplanting at this time of the year.

New Introductions for 2006

One of our new grasses for 2006 is a most unique Fescue called Festuca punctoria. At a quick glance it looks like a small F. glauca, but upon closer inspection, it has slightly wider leaves, is slightly less blue and has very stiff leaves. If you put your hand on the top of it you will be shocked at how spiky it is. Rabbits and deer would never want to eat this plant!!

Next season we expect to have about 15 varieties of Miscanthus available in 4" pots. We are very excited about this as we know that many of you are looking for a greater number of Miscanthus varieties than what we can grow in our wind-swept fields.

More info on our 2006 Intros in the next newsletter.

Going Beyond the Zones

The Canadian Dept of Natural Resources has taken on an interesting project. They are encouraging gardeners in Canada and the northern US to report information about the hardiness of plants in their area.

"Our aim is to go beyond a single general map and develop potential range maps for individual species of trees, shrubs and perennial flowers. Our approach is to develop a climatic profile for each plant using new continent-wide climate models. These climatic profiles will be mapped giving an indication of the possible range of each species."

If you are interested in participating please visit their website.

Pudge, I'm going to try to overwinter the Melinis nerviglumis Ruby Grass.

A site that I was reading says that clumps can be potted up in fall before first frost for overwintering indoors in cool areas. I'm also going to try a couple of pots in the pumphouse. Worth a try ;)

Sharon

Pudge thanks for that link, I knew Living Prairie Museum sold native species but I didn't know which nursery they got them from. I think what I was seeing must have been Big Bluestem, there is nothing else that looks remotely like it. It was in ditches so I couldn't really tell how tall it was and it may have been shorter from poor soil.

not..buying...any grass.... till spring... nnngh!

Pudge,

I don't think that the reason your Ruby Grass failed to bloom has to do with the length of the season. They were started here in March and as you can see from the photo below, they are in bloom. The biggest problem with this grass is that it requires consistent heat to bloom. I grew it last year and it didn't bloom at all (or very weakly) even though my transplants were very large. But last summer was very cool here and the night temperatures were generally between 15 and 20C.

This year we had heat here (and loads of it). July & August was consistently between 29 and 35 C. Our night temperatures hovered in the 20s and itÂs still hot. I took this picture at the Botanical Gardens on August 28th. I am disappointed with this grass since although they are beautiful, they are invasive in warmer places and in cooler locations they don't bloom well. Think IÂll stick to Stipa tenuissima or Pennisetum setaceum.

Marilena

The Big Blue Stem I started from seed (collected from western MN, thanks Rick) has amazed me. It started out soooo slow. I put it in my seed bed in mid-June because of its small size. Now, it is well over 5 feet tall...gowing like crazy and is putting out seed heads.
Jan

That is amazing in just one season, Jan! Did it also put on the powder blue bloom on the leaves in mid summer? That was why I selected it.

Rick

Rick - Yes, it has a nice blue bloom.....all 62 inches (1.8 meters) of it! It is very different than the seed you collected from Ramsey County. That is green-green and only achieved a height of 24inches (61cm). Probably more normal for first year growth?
Jan

Good luck on wintering the Melinis, Sharon - be sure to let me know how that works out for you. I suspected heat might have something to do with bloom, Marilena, but I thought we had enough of it this year. Although, we did have plenty of cooler periods, too, so the heat wasn't consistent. Maybe it needs to be grown in a big pot in the greenhouse all summer until it blooms, then put it out on the deck/patio to enjoy the blooms treating it like a late season annual.

I meant to go out and look at my seedling Big Bluestems today, but got caught up with other stuff and never spent any time outside (cool and cloudy anyway). I know for certain it hasn't reached 5' like yours, Jan. Way to go!

Yes Jan, a 2 ft first year growth is quite respectable, and what I might have expected for both bluestems. If you think the two types are different now, just wait 'til the second or third year, when their growth patterns are revealed. Yup, they are just about as different as you can get.

Rick

Fascinating thread! I found it Googling Melinis nerviglumis, and recognize a few GW names from the OG forum and WS forum. You eskimos are doing a great job with your grasses up there in the icebox!

Bluestem's 2006 introductions are now listed at their web site. I was getting all excited just looking at the list (and making my own, LOL). Let's see, those Panicums to start with....

Here is a link that might be useful: Bluestem Nursery

I'm not going to look, I'm not going to look........la la la de da, nope I'm not looking!