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Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

Posted by intotheark 2b (My Page) on
Thu, May 23, 13 at 12:42

all my grapes pulled through,
except for a straggly 'kay gray' i was trying to rescue,
but if you are in zone 3 there are definitely more varieties to try

Valiant - hardiest variety, concord-type grape from the University of South Dakota, cross between a Fredonia and wild, good flavor for juice, jelly, sauces, etc.

Blue Bell - another concord-type variety, a cross of Beta and unknown from the University of Minnesota, not as hardy as valiant, but after 2 seasons there is the strongest growth yet this year, so it may take a bit to get established, good as a table grape or for juices, etc.

Prairie Star - a hardy white wine/table variety developed by Elmer Swenson in the 1980's, cross of ES 2-7-13 and ES 2-8-1 yielding ES 3-24-7 (prairie star)

Beta - a cross between Concord and wild, good for table, jellies, etc.

Eona - a pinkish variety developed by N.E. Hansen in 1925, a cross of Lady Washington and Beta, a good, sweet table grape or for wine


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

Do you protect these or are they in the open. I saw on your website you have blueberries too. How are they doing and what type do you have.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

i do protect them with snow cover,
in that i train them to grow in the double guyot method
i think if anyone is growing grapes that are near their zone or a little above,
this is a good method to keep the buds insulated

i am confident in my valiants to be trained 'above ground',
so i am transitioning mine into the umbrella kniffen system

for blueberries i have north country, north sky, northland and an unknown variety i got on sale at home depot (these tend to dieback quite severely in cold winters)
but everything made it this year with a little tip dieback
we will get some fruit, but not copious amounts

north sky is the hardiest blueberry i have found,
the northland and north country are a close second and good as pollinizers for each other


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

guyot method & umbrella kniffen system are foreign languages to me. Thanks for the blueberry info I think I just bought a north sky but can't remember the other one. I am going to bring them into the garage for the winter I think.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

basically the double guyot system is late fall/early winter pruning to 3 canes, you tie down 2 canes in opposite directions close to the ground and prune the third cane to 3 buds for next seasons 3 canes
it is this tie-down of next seasons fruiting canes that keeps them snow covered and out of the harsher open air winter temps

i tried to make a grape pruning page, you can view it at the link

Here is a link that might be useful: grape pruning


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

Interesting info, thanks for posting. I have only ever grown Valiant, and I grow them via the "wild sprawl" method, lol. They seem to have survived much better this past winter than compared to the previous several winters, with some strong buds being produced even 6 or 8 feet into the air where they climbed adjacent trees last year.

I was hoping the U of Saskatchewan grape breeding program would be coming out with some better varieties soon, but from a purely internet search -- not contacting them directly -- it seems to me that the program is still pretty young, and maybe they've produced an interesting few varieties to be used in future breeding programs, but that's about it so far. So to learn about the varieties that are available right now is good information.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

being a 3a Don, you have quite a few choices
especially if you do the guyot method

this link is to Bert Dunn's hardy grape page,
while not all are suitable for you, there are a few that may pique your interest
and I think he would not mind answering any questions you had regarding varieties for your zone

Here is a link that might be useful: Bert's hardy grapes


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

Got some from Bert and have rooted some, [red only] since dark fruit is better for you, still have to evaluate with what survived, most are dead I think, so far the only one what looks good is the Marquette.
But...any grape is better then none, my first choice in light color grape a couple of years back was Vandal-Cliche, ..know a guy who has much luck with these and was promised a plant this year.

Yes..the old stand by is still the Valiant.
Oh..have a Germanica and has survived the last mild winter.

Great thread,..intotheark, you're a perfectionist, seeing all you plants, sooo...nicely oranized and neatly planted, ..including your website!


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

Intotheark, thanks for posting the hardy grape list, I've added it to my favourites.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

Thanks from me too the guyot method looks doable for me. After we plant our fence today i'll have just the spot to put one, or do I need 2 for pollination?


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

most grapes are self-fertile, including valiant

I will share my grape rooting secret,
in case you or anyone else gets hardwood cuttings form Bert, or elsewhere
I have a very good success rate with this method, plus it is fun to watch the root development

1 - get an opaque small vessel, (or tape a clear one) deep enough to at least cover the bottom bud
2 - place your grape cutting in the vessel and add water to just below the bottom bud
3 - place a 1/2-1 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide in the water (we use food grade, but the drugstore variety is fine),
this will impart a very high oxygen content to the water, encouraging strong rooting (if you are on flouridated/chlorinated city water, just use spring/distilled/bottled water)
4 - every 10 days or so, pour off the water and add clean water and hydrogen peroxide, if evaporation occurs before adding new water, just add a little up to you high water mark on the cutting
5 - when you get some decent root development (a few 2" roots) you can begin to pot-up into a light seed starter mix
6 - depending on the cutting you may get bud break first, or rooting first, the key is to wait till you get 2" or so on a few roots before potting up
7 - prepare some 3"-4" pots by filling the bottom 1/3 with your starter mix, press down to compress and water to wet
8- remove cutting from water and gently run an electric toothbrush or any manual soft-bristled brush over the thick roots (this encourages branching and the finer uptake roots to form)
9 - place cutting in pot and fill with your mix, press down on mix to compress and water-in well
10 - keep grape well watered, as it will be surviving on water until the fine uptake roots establish themselves
11 - you can begin this process in late Feb/early March

in the pic are some that I started, the tall/bushy ones in the back are the Eona and Beta

[IMG]http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2308/12268873/21823395/406735149.jpg[/IMG]

This post was edited by intotheark on Sat, May 25, 13 at 12:31


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

that straggly kay gray has really taken off
"kay gray" (ES 1-63) is another wisconsin grape from Elmer Swenson released in the 1980's, it is a white table/blending grape and was named after a family friend

so everything survived and is growing well

most of the replacement shoots on the grapes are now 8' or taller
(the fruiting shoots i prune back anywhere from 5 leaves after the fruit cluster to 5' tall)

This post was edited by intotheark on Mon, Jul 15, 13 at 11:52


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

May I ask where you are growing? I am 150 km NW of Edmonton.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

May I ask where you are growing? I am 150 km NW of Edmonton.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

I'm in Peace River and don't protect my grapes, though they are climbing against a south and western -facing wall. 'Valiant' doesn't seem to suffer any winter damage down to about -35C, and my two other cultivars ('beta'; 'Minnesota') have pulled through with a little extra snow cover over the roots. A former colleague had a really extensive arbor of 'Valiant', and it produced/produces a huge crop for her, year after year, with no winter protection required.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

john_p,
i am east of vegreville

i have a decent selection of cuttings in my fridge from the fall pruning session
if you (or anyone else) would like some let me know and maybe we can meet-up in edmonton
we don't go too often, but it might work out

grapes are top of my list of favorite plants

edible fruit and leaves, easy to propagate and care for

here is a pic of a couple of last season's clusters


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

This is a pic of a grape that a bred myself. It is is being sold here in Edmonton at Arch greenhouses.
I would love to meet you in Edmonton before the season starts. I have lots of free time before I start sales. Contact me off list@gardenink@hotmail.com


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

This is a pic of a grape that a bred myself. It is is being sold here in Edmonton at Arch greenhouses.
I would love to meet you in Edmonton before the season starts. I have lots of free time before I start sales. Contact me off list@gardenink@hotmail.com


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

that is some patience there john
my understanding is it takes about 15 years to get a viable/stable new grape variety
2-3 times longer than tomatoes (which can be done in seven generations)

i will send you an email when we plan on a city trip (after this cold snap has dissipated)

is arch still involved with helping developmentally disabled people?


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

Yes it takes many years not to produce the clone but to trial them. I started growing them in 1995.

Do come and visit when I am in the city.

Yes, Arch Greenhouses still finds meaningful employment for individuals who do not fit well into the normal job market.


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RE: Grapes that survived (zone 2b)

excellent of arch to do that

i have extra grape cuttings and heirloom tomato seeds available for donation,
if you think they would be interested

these would be strictly if they wanted to grow them out,
of course they are free to resell at that point
(just to let you know there is not any pretty packaging,
but they are all organic and grown by us)

i can email you a list of tomato varieties
i have some interesting dwarf varieties, even one that is a smaller plant than tiny tim

did you name your grape variety?

take care

This post was edited by intotheark on Sun, Feb 9, 14 at 19:41


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