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Speaking of Roses..........

Posted by nutsaboutflowers 2b/3a (My Page) on
Sat, May 26, 12 at 18:13

Weeper just mentioned roses so we may as well talk about them now =:)

My Emily Carr and George Vancouver did wonderfully this winter. No rabbit or vole damage, and no dieback.

Last fall I bought Morden Fireglow and sunk it for the winter, and this spring so far I've bought Morden Sunrise.

I'm anxious to see how they do.

Weeper, you just bought JP Connell. Mine died a couple years ago, but it was never planted, so what do I expect from the poor thing? Does anyone else have it?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

I have JP. It always has lots of die-back and never seems to recover very well. Champlain, on the other hand, rebounds nicely from its dieback (and there's always a lot of it). My White Kosters also die back quite a bit, but they're zone 4, so i'm just glad that they come back at all!

Martin Frobisher didn't come through the winter very well. He's going to need a heck of a lot of pruning when i get around to it. :-/


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

I'll be interested to see how my JP does then. I really like the color, so I couldn't resist. JP is supposed to be just as hardy as Emily Carr, and I don't have trouble with her. However, I do cover my roses with straw (at least 8 inches or so) every winter, so maybe that helps.

Ugh, there are so many roses I want that I need to order from a rose nursery because they don't carry them in the local greenhouses. But they are all done shipping for 2012 already, so I'll have to wait until next year. Blah. Where am I going to PUT THEM?! I need to rearrange a bunch of my perennials so I have space for taller roses at the back of my bed.

I did have vole damage this year, which doesn't really suprise me since I put straw on them. Not much died back because of it though. I found it so odd that there was barely any dieback this year, and yet I have some perennials that didn't make it! And my Emily Carr and Morden Blush usually die back almost to the ground, or wherever I mulch to. Speaking of Morden Blush, that is one I really need to move to the front of the bed..it seems to be one that is consistently small (though very well formed and round) and never outgrows it's 2 ft limit.

One rose that I have that doesn't die back at all, ever, is Prairie Peace. But wow does it get lanky if you don't trim it! I think eventually I'll move it somewhere where I can train it to climb an arbor or something so it looks more structured.

Anyone have Hope for Humanity? How does it do? I'm slightly concerned because I've seen it listed in a few spots as zone 4. I also bought Marie-Victorin...anyone have this beauty? Also curious to see how she does, I wasn't familiar at all with it before this spring; I've never seen it in person.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Last summer I bought Champlain, Morden Centennial and Adelaide Hoodless, own root from Walmart at the end of the summer. They were just tiny stick and very cheap on sale. They've all come through the winter and are looking good. I also bought a Weigelia (sp?) and a ninebark for a couple of bucks and they are doing very well.

This spring I got some new Albas from Cornhill: Cardinal Richlieu, Chloris, Fantin Latour, and Koenigin von Danemark. Hope they're as good as my other Albas. :)


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Sure looks like I need more roses to keep pace with everyone else. =:)

While we're on the subject........

You know when you first buy some roses and they've got deep deep shiny green leaves that you're sure they have because they fertilized the heck out of it? Are all of you able to keep them that way, or how do I know that I've got a healthy plant even though I'm less brutal with the fertilizer? I use organic methods, such as coffee grounds, compost, banana peels, fish emulsion, etc. Since I'm pretty new to this rose business, how do I know I have a plant that's supposed to have green shiny leaves, or more of a dullish reddish color, etc.?


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Different roses definitely have different colour and textures of leaves! As long as they're not insect chewed or powdery mildewed or blackspotted you're probably okay. Rugosa leaves are wrinkly and fairly dull, HTs usually have big shiny leaves and sometimes red new growth, and others are anywhere in between. One of my favourites for foliage is Celestial, it is sort of silvery-blue-grey.

The most important thing for us is the plant being vigorous enough to create a good root system and many basal breaks to survive the winter. I have a couple that have been one-cane wonders for many years and I'm sure one hard winter will finish them off eventually.

I have always used Miracle Gro for Roses on my HTs and all the others I don't fertilize at all. I'm sure organic methods will work just as well if not better. This year I gave them organic bone & blood meal and haven't Miracle Gro-ed them yet.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Also I give them Epsom Salts when I remember. I don't know if my soil is deficient in magnesium but I do it anyway.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

northspruce - ah, that is so rewarding when you find steals like that at big box stores and they actually survive and flourish! It's like getting a sucker from a friend instead of having to pay $40 from a greenhouse.

NAF - more roses are always good. ;) I'm way behind everyone else who is interested in roses too. But..limited funds, limited space (without digging a new bed), other plant interests, etc. Still, if you gain a couple every year, before long you'll have a pile of them!

As far as the rose leaves thing: since I only have a few roses, I don't have enough experience to know much. But I think it really depends on the variety, what color the leaves will be. My Emily Carr, for instance, are a medium green with red tinges. My Prairie Peace are also a medium green, but with no red. My Morden Blush has dark green leaves. I can't remember about my Persian Yellow. I do fertilize with chemical fertilizer, but I'm so scatterbrained and busy that they usually only get a dose once or at most twice a year! I don't think roses need to have dark green leaves to be considered healthy. If you've got decent growth, plenty of flowers, leaves that aren't yellowed and without chlorosis or spots...I think you've got healthy roses. Lots of nitrogen might get you lots of green growth, but it won't mean a overall healthier plant...it'll just be putting more energy into leaves and less into flowers, etc. That's my opinion anyway.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

northspruce - ah, that is so rewarding when you find steals like that at big box stores and they actually survive and flourish! It's like getting a sucker from a friend instead of having to pay $40 from a greenhouse.

NAF - more roses are always good. ;) I'm way behind everyone else who is interested in roses too. But..limited funds, limited space (without digging a new bed), other plant interests, etc. Still, if you gain a couple every year, before long you'll have a pile of them!

As far as the rose leaves thing: since I only have a few roses, I don't have enough experience to know much. But I think it really depends on the variety, what color the leaves will be. My Emily Carr, for instance, are a medium green with red tinges. My Prairie Peace are also a medium green, but with no red. My Morden Blush has dark green leaves. I can't remember about my Persian Yellow. I do fertilize with chemical fertilizer, but I'm so scatterbrained and busy that they usually only get a dose once or at most twice a year! I don't think roses need to have dark green leaves to be considered healthy. If you've got decent growth, plenty of flowers, leaves that aren't yellowed and without chlorosis or spots...I think you've got healthy roses. Lots of nitrogen might get you lots of green growth, but it won't mean a overall healthier plant...it'll just be putting more energy into leaves and less into flowers, etc. That's my opinion anyway.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Darnit.

Just in case you didn't get the gist of my first message, you can read it a second time. ;)


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Hope for Humanity is an absolutely beautiful rose and it is fully hardy for me. It is a really dark, rich red.

Morden Sunrise is nice, but I have replaced at least five in all my years of gardening. It is not as hardy as some of the other Mordens. This was a great year on the Prairies for overwintered plants. I think just about everything came back.

Try to buy roses that are on their own rootstock, that way they will always be that rose. I've lost a few when the rose reverted back to its rootstock.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

I set up a rose garden at least 6 years ago, probably 10 years, and started with 6 hybrid tea roses plus 4 semi-hardy roses (2 "Morden Centennial" and 2 "The Hunter". The hybrid teas all still survive, and get about 1 metre tall each summer, with lots of blooms. I still have the Morden Centennial semi-hardy rose, but a few years ago I replaced the Hunter semi-hardy roses with some yellow non-hardy roses (grandifloras I think, but I'd have to check to confirm -- the Hunter didn't die, they were just too damn thorny). The yellows have done well for me so far.

I find the semi-hardy roses to not really be that hardy, so I end up trimming them down to 1 foot or shorter each spring when I remove the dead growth. The non-hardy (tea) roses usually kill to ground level but since I plant the crown well underground and on a slant, there is lots of underground material to put up vigorous new shoots each spring. So far my non-hardies have vastly outshone my semi-hardy roses as far as bloom goes.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Okay, rose experts (i just like them, i'm not an expert!), when i go to plant "The Hunter", should i plant it a bit deeper? It's own root. I wonder if maybe it will suffer a lot of dieback because it's not supposed to be fully hardy here and it will be one that gets trimmed way down in the spring, like the White Kosters, Hawkeye Belle and JP Connell. What do you think?


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

For colder zones like ours I definitely recommend you plant the crown deep.

My Hunter came through pretty good, about five inches was green. Lots of new growth. Not much snow cover this year either.

In regards to Hope for Humanity, it's very hardy for here, but there's a warning: it's a big shrub. The ones at the Calgary Zoo are gigantic and only a few years old. They prune them way back now and they still get big (almost six feet both directions). My MIL has one too and it's already 3x3 - planted two years ago.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Shazam, that is so odd...I've heard some other people comment on how big and tall HFH can get too, and yet it is usually sold as either 2x2 or 3x3! Are these all clones of each other and they just grow different under different conditions, or is their variation within a variety?


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

I have one HFH in partial shade and it stays small, not more than 2-3 feet. I also have one in full sun, but it is not fully mature yet, so we'll see how it does in the next year or two. I live in a severe zone so there is some die-back every year...perhaps that would account for some of the height difference?


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Hey Donna, where do you live near? I'm an hour south east of Saskatoon - same zone as you(near Watrous).


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Hi weeper,
I'm in Saskatoon.


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Ha! That's neat! Well, if you ever feel like a gardener chat(or at least, a wannabe on my side!) leave me a message and I'll see if I can come in!

My name is Katie, by the way. *waves*


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Honestly, I don't know what's with HHF, there may be some genetic variability with it. I have seen lots of monster specimens of it in Calgary now, and yeah, a lot of the owners were expecting a small shrub.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Don said ... "the Hunter didn't die, they were just too damn thorny" ... lol, soooo true! This rugosa type rose has very well formed hybrid T style blooms on a sprawling, often awkward looking plant having the most vicious of thorns! Being only crown hardy, they require heavy spring pruning, so get out your thick leather gloves! I've often considered again growing this rose, the blooms are some of the best produced in this climate, though I'll never forget those nasty thorns, lol.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Oh good, i'm looking forward to that.... LOL


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." - Abraham Lincoln

Couldn't resist posting this quote as I love roses so much!

They may be thorny but it's nothing personal. :)

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Sometimes when i'm trying to work around them, they just grab me! I like to think that they love me as much as i love them. :>


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Like attracts like I always say, Marcia! :)


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Thorns don't bother me at all as long as I don't have to prune. I can never figure out WHERE to put the pruned canes that I won't regret later! It's not like they decompose quickly either.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Fortunately, the land across the road from us is empty. The neighbours up the hill own it but they don't care if i dump things like rose canes over there. I've dumped extra clay soil over there and other things that there's no room in the compost bins for. Someday there should be a nice pile of soil over there. :)


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Ginny, to grow the 'Hunter' is to know and never forget those thorns! ... the buggers easily penetrate leather gloves and deeply tear flesh, these are to be feared and respected, especially around young children ... and the bushes do require hands on pruning due to winter dieback.

This post was edited by twrosz on Sun, Mar 17, 13 at 2:40


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Terry, they can't be worse than Chloe's teeth! ;) But good to be respectful. :)

As Marcia mentioned, I just love roses. I shall rely on you and the other rose experts to teach me the ground rules. :)

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Ginny, one would be in major trouble if 'The Hunter' had four legs!

I hope you're doing better :)

Here is a link that might be useful: 'The Hunter' rose


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Doing great, Terry. Looking forward to you helping me plant roses when we get spring tho, lol!. I'll try and stick with the not so thorny ones! :)

BTW, those thorns look more like shark teeth!

Looking forward to taking on the challenge of growing roses this year. They may all end up in pots!

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Yes, they do look like shark teeth ... and act like them also, lol.

What roses are you thinking about planting Ginny .... hardy ones I take it?

northspruce ... yes, it can be a challenge to dispose of rose prunings ... though, here on the acreage, I'm able to have a large burn pile.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Thinking about plastic ones, Terry. :)

Seriously, I can't decide. I really like tha looks of White Licorice and it is a baby of Distant Drums which is another one I would like to grow again.

Really tough bushes that I can plant at the back of the yard. Of the ones I have in mind, most are suggested in George's book, incidently.

Would like a good choice for a climber. Any ideas?

Gil, I put all the thorny trimmings in dog food bags then in a construction weight garbage bag. :)

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Terry, I was thinking throughout this thread that nothing is thornier than John Cabot. But that pic of The Hunter... jeesh! Take a look at this photo of JC in the link. I hope it comes up right. My mom's JC is worse than this, it has some giant thorns mixed in. ;)

Ginny, the only 100% hardy climbing rose I know of is Polstjarnan. It's very big and unruly and its blooms don't amount to much but I never dies back. I also have John Davis which is delightful but doesn't get all that huge. And then there's John Cabot... see photo. LOL. Also I find his colour a bit lurid.

Here is a link that might be useful: John Cabot's mean thorns


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

I kinda like the bright blooms on John Cabot, Gil. Probably the only one I wouldn't kill! Perhaps I could plant both John Cabot and John Davis on the west side of the garage.Would west exposure provide enough sun? The dogs don't spend as much time over there either so I won't have a hair rose. :)

And while I also love white roses, Polstjarman just doesn't cut it for me. :( Maybe I will tie fabric roses on my Virginia Creeper. :)

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

For white roses, i have Blanc Double de Coubert and two White Kosters. All lovely, and all pretty thorny!


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Plastic roses Ginny, lol. 'White Licorice' does look tempting, I might have to try that one! As for climbing roses, I do like 'John Davis', though it hasn't grown all that tall and one of my bushes has succumb to disease problems. I've seen 'William Baffin' develop into very large specimens, though can't say as if I'm really keen on it. My favorite is 'Ramblin' Red', it's not a hardy one, though I easily lay the canes down to the ground for winter, it's approaching 6 ft and flowers its head off all summer long with high quality blooms, also disease resistant.

northspruce, yes, I agree that 'John Cabot' is a thorny bugger that has bitten me one too many times, lol.


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Marcia, Blanc Double de Coubert is recommended by Lois Hole if I remember correctly. That may be the white one that goes out back along the lane. Thank you for reminding me. :)

I don't have a problem with thorny. I see it this way: Once bitten, twice smarter, in any relationship! I'm not always an angel either. :)

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Oh dear.....this is not going to be an easy undertaking. Must continually remind myself that roses are not near as tough as peonies.....at least not the roses I want. :/

I have narrowed the list down to about 100 for starters so I think I'm doing pretty good! :) Will only end up with a portion of that this year of course....all Explorer and Can. Artist choices or rugosas. Ordered Suzanne and Prairie Peace already as well as White Licorice and Walking on Sunshine. I will need something to baby this summer. :).

Marcia, there is a sport of BDC by the name of Souvenir De Philemon Cochet at Cornhill. Supposed to be superior to it's parent. I think I will try that one for my back lane white. :)

Anyone grow Felix LeClerc? Possibly a climber for my garage or north fance.

Terry, Cornhill also has Ramblin' Red. That one would have to go outside the dog fence but I may have a spot for it. :)

I think I am going to need a bigger homestead! :)

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Ginny - I have Felix Leclerc - only in the ground for a couple of years though - chinook conditions are a little hard on it but it is holding its own - hope to see some good growth this spring. Love the color.

Sheila


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

Ginny no need to get a bigger place if Coombs can have goats why not Roses at your house


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RE: Speaking of Roses..........

I'll stick with roses, Cindy. My neighbour tells me she would freak if I got a chicken but I think she would tolerate roses. :) I may, however, have no lawn left........

Sheila, I am thinking it may do ok up by the heated garage. Zone 3a here tho. I really like the color too. :)

Ginny


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RE: Speaking of Roses.........

Yes roses on your roof instead of goats!!! That way you don't have to move.


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