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shazam_z3

The horribly detailed rose report

shazam_z3
15 years ago

I've been slowly adding roses to my backyard garden as time has progressed. Here are my finding so far:

Biggest to smallest bloom size:

Topaz Jewel has very large blooms. Same with Morden Sunrise. However, both are single and the blooms don't last very long.

Lambert Closse is extremely double, and has blooms almost as big. I am very impressed with it this year.

Topaz Jewel

Morden Sunrise

Morden Fireglow

Lambert Closse

Hansa

Turbo

Emily Carr

Therese Bugnet

Morden Amorette

Adelaide Hoodless

Prairie Dawn

Bonica

George Vancouver

Cupping:

Prarie Dawn never fully unfolds for me. Lambert Closse is so crazy double that it never really unfolds. Emily Carr has a wonderful semi-double cupped shape. Morden Fireglow is sort of weird in that the center petals don't ever seem to unfurl, while the outer petals do. Roses not listed are ones that flatten out quickly.

Prarie Dawn

Lambert Closse

Emily Carr

Morden Fireglow

Adelaide Hoodless

George Vancouver

Longest to shortest bloom life:

Tops are Bonica and Prairie Dawn. However, George Vancouver and Emily Carr's blooms look better when older. Any on this list will be satisfactory if you're looking for longer lasting blooms.

Bonica

Prairie Dawn

George Vancouver

Emily Carr

Morden Fireglow

Adelaide Hoodless

Morden Amorette

Lambert Closse

The next two definitely have a shorter bloom life.

Turbo

Morden Sunrise

Trailing the bottom are the rugosas

Hansa

Therese Bugnet

Topaz Jewel

Floriferousness:

By a wide margin, Bonica wins this race. If you want a small, compact shrub that gives lots of blooms, George Vancouver is your winner. Morden Amorette is also good for this. The best medium sized shrub is Emily Carr. It also has a strong upright growth habit.

Bonica

Prarie Dawn

Emily Carr

Adelaide Hoodless

George Vancouver

Lambert Closse

Turbo

Hansa

Therese Bugnet

Morden Sunrise/Morden Amorette

Morden Fireglow is easily the worst of the bunch.

Repeat:

The top four all form buds while there are still blooms. The rest seem to be repeaters as opposed to continual bloomers.

Bonica

George Vancouver

Morden Sunrise

Hansa

Disease/Pests:

I've never had a problem with blackspot on any of my roses. Powdery mildew I've only had once on my Topaz Jewel and Lambert Closse. Both shrugged it off with no issue using liquid sulphur.

The Hansa had a massive infestation of spider mites this year. It seems to be okay now.

Rose Weevils did attack my Prairie Dawn and Morden Sunrise. The Prarie Dawn did suffer, but the Morden Sunrise, although getting a little banged up, was none the worse for wear. I think they also tried to attack my Lambert Closse, but there was absolutely no damage on it.

Roses I don't own:

Morden Centennial

Winnipeg Parks

Cuthbert Grant

Hawkeye Belle

My MIL gardens as well, and her Morden Centennial and Winnipeg Parks are simply outstanding. Morden Centennial has big, very double almost peony-like blooms, but they don't seem to last too long. Winnipeg Parks has a great double form and big blooms.

I saw Cuthbert Grant at a garden centre and boy, was it ever wonderful.

Hawkeye Belle looks amazing if the photos here are any indication.

Overall:

For a landscape rose Bonica is almost unbeatable. However, the blooms are not very large and it has little fragrance.

Emily Carr is my favourite medium sized red hardy rose. Excellent form, extremely vigourous, lots of buds, long lasting blooms, disease free. It also buds out very early - only Hansa budded out earlier.

For light pink, Lambert Closse is quickly becoming my favourite. Big blooms, great form, good # of flowers, nice fragrance. It's smallish though (It's never grown more than 1.5 feet tall for me), and it doesn't repeat too well.

For small shrubs, George Vancouver is worth a spot. Nice blooms, if smallish, but they're fragrant, the thing brings up clusters like crazy, and it blooms continuously like no one's business.

Morden Fireglow I find to be a bit of a gimmick rose. The color is outstanding, but it's stingy with the blooms, and it has a weird bloom form.

For big shrubs, I'm leaning towards Prairie Dawn. Hansa and Therese Bugnet are nice, but the blooms barely last. Prarie Dawn has an awesome rose form and is much more floriferous.

I have no recommendations for white roses. I don't find them apppealing (I'm not a white flower fan). Also, I have never, ever been able to find Alexander MacKenzie locally. It sure looks nice.

Next year, new roses in the garden will be Hawkeye Belle, Cuthbert Grant, Morden Centennial, and Alexander MacKenzie. Hawkeye Belle and Alexander MacKenzie will have to be mail ordered.

Comments (63)

  • redpeony
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Shazam, I will save you a drive and post a picture of it soon :)!

    This is a bit off the thread, but does anyone know a good way for getting rid of weevils? I had pruned off all the affected buds just two days ago, but alas I have more problems. Any advice would be great, preferrably not too time comsuming if possible!

    Janet

  • northspruce
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cathy - I meant to comment on your list last week and forgot - I see you have Mirandy. That was one of my Grandma's favourite roses because of its perfume and dark red colour. The blooms have weak necks though. I would like to grow that one but I can't seem to find it ever.

    Also if you like vigorous climber/ramblers you might like to try Westerland or Autumn Sunset. I had AS and it was fantastic but I planted it in a bad spot and it died. It's supposed to be about a zone 4-5ish.

  • shootingstar2
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Northspruce

    I found Mirandy at Home Depot this year. They were body bags but very large and healthy looking when they first came in. I narrowed the list down to a few and posted over on the rose forum. The ones that came back with good recommendations I added.

    Since it was very early spring I potted Mirandy up and schlepped her in and out daily with the others that were early starts. She took right off and was doing well. Then she took a nose dive very quickly. Thinking it would probably die anyway, I thought I had nothing to lose by putting her in the ground. She pouted for a bit but hung in there. Then she started to grow and opened her first bloom this week. It is huge, deep red and very well scented. I am glad I took a chance and picked it up.

    I do have a real weakness for ramblers and large climbers. Of course most of them are not cane hardy but if the crown survives and they re-grow to a respectable size I'm a happy camper. I have looked at both Westerland and Autumn Sunset and like them both. I am sure I will try both of them as this experiment continues. I'm zone bending and not all of them will display the re-growth vigor I require so they get moved to where they can be a shrub and I try something else.

    Aside from Antike '89 who is now 7 feet tall. I am really smitten with:

    Friesinger Morgenrote (aka Sunrise) - recovered well from winter kill, the most amazing colour blend - yellow, orange & pink. Good scent and heavy bloom.

    Rosenholm - I really love this one

    Of the austins added this year all have bloomed and I am very pleased with all of them. However, I have never had a rose stop me in my tracks like Crown Princess Margaretta. I can stare at it for hours, the colour defies description and photography. It is simply magic.

    Cathy

  • sharons2
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    more! More! MORE!

    I love horribly detailed reports of just about anything!

    Sharon

  • jimm.grow
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bonica is listed as zone 5 ? would
    i need to cover it well to grow
    in northern wisconsin (zone 3b) ?
    so far i have only tried hansa
    and other rugosas. jim

  • leo_prairie_view
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bonica does well here. It dies back to the ground and is a bit slow to recover in the spring but then it blooms nicely after the early roses are finished. I think it would take a lot of protection to keep it from dying back and wouldn't give you much more bloom.
    Leo

  • sierra_z2b
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have Bonica and it keeps up to my morden roses here. As long as it gets covered with snow it seems to be fine. The tops get winter kill, and have to be cut back in the spring....but anything under the snow line is fine.

    Sierra

  • jimm.grow
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    more! thanks shazam . not horrible. this year

    thanks to this report i will try bonica, emily carr,

    and adelaide hoodless, have hansa + rosa mundi

    that have not done much since planting in 2001.

  • judith5bmontreal
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thought I would add my two cents here, since I love talking about roses!
    I realize that you are all in a colder zone than I am, but you seem to have had similar experiences with the Austin and Kordes roses. They ARE much hardier than previously thought. With a little protection, plus the snow, they come roaring back every year.
    Having very little space left, I have ordered the following from Palatine (big, healthy bareroot plants, and great customer service):

    Jude the Obscure
    Janet
    The Prince
    Heritage
    Jubilee Celebration

    They have many more amazing roses, but, alas, even all my sunny pot spaces are taken! Of course, I could always dig up my driveway, lots of sun there.....

    Anyone else want to share their orders for spring?

    Judith

  • mogardengal
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    SOOOO happy to find this thread. I'm moving to Alaska from Missouri in a year, and I was so worried I wouldn't be able to grow some of my favorite roses (Austins). I grew up in Alaska and was never terribly fond of the rugosas that are widely planted there.

    Keep up the detailed reports! Zone 3/4, here I come!

  • sengyan
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To all who have posted above. Many of you have HTs in your garden. I am in Edmonton, zone 3. What do you do to winterize? I asked to find a method that is effective and not too much work. I use the Minnesota Tip over method. It is very effective but very hard work for a 73 year old rose grower. Please share your methods.

    Thank you.

    Sengyan

  • shazam_z3
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There is a somewhat famous private rose garden in downtown Calgary. I had a chance to talk to one of the caretakers, and he said that they simply cover their HTs with dirt and mulch before the winter.

    It's amazing that you're 73 and still doing the Minnesota Tip method!!! I would've given up ages ago :)

    If that house ever goes on sale, I'm buying it.

  • sengyan
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you Shazam for your reply. I believe that it is possible in Calgary to just cover with dirt and mulch for the winter because of the Chinooks. Up here in Edmonton I've lost many plants using the dirt and mulch methods. I've not lost any for a long time using the Min. Tip over method. But I am too old to tip over more than 20 plants every Fall and tip then up in Spring. So if any reader has a workable method please share.

    Sengyan

  • shazam_z3
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually, chinooks are worse for plants. Edmonton has a much better climate than Calgary for plants. Your frost free days, for instance, are much longer than Calgary's, and Edmonton has much more reliable snow cover, among other advantages.

    Another method are the styrofoam rose boxes. Prune the roses after a hard frost so they fit the boxes, fill the boxes with dirt and secure the top. Don't uncover until you are certain all danger of frost is over, as the moment you uncover the roses they will break dormancy.

  • shazam_z3
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bump for this year.

    Got some new roses this year:

    Distant Drums (bareroot)
    Prairie Star (bareroot)
    Hawkeye Belle (bareroot)
    Graham Thomas (container)

    Anyhoo, Hunter was the first rose this year to leaf out. Very little dieback for what is supposedly a zone 4 rose. I planted this guy last year and it was almost totally defoliated by aphids and yet it came back really strong.

    George Vancouver was next.

    Bonica has lots of green cane and leaf out on it. Again another rose whose hardiness is somewhat unknown. If it can survive in my zone 3 windy, sun-beaten, lacking snowcover backyard, it can survive in yours :)

    Turbo. Ah, Turbo. How tough was it? It kept leaves over the winter.

    I shovel pruned one of my Morden Fireglows. Haven't been too impressed with them.

  • shazam_z3
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just to follow up on my own ramblings...

    Does anybody grow 'Blaze Improved'? Helpmefind.com lists it hardy to zone 3b, which probably then means that it's hardy to zone 1 :)

  • nutsaboutflowers
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh My Goodness ! You guys sure make a person want to grow roses =:)

    I made a wish list from the first detailed Sazzyrose report, went shopping and they didn't have Emily Carr or George Vancouver, which sounded like good ones to start with. I was so disappointed, but I'll make a second list.

    Could someone please tell me, a person who's never grown roses, what the following are :

    shovel pruned
    Minnesota tip over method
    not on its own roots

    These were mentioned in the previous posts and I don't know what they mean.

    Oh,and one more thing. If I find an Emily Carr orGeorge Vancouver at a place like Canadian Tire, should I buy them, or stick to buying them at a greenhouse?

    Thanks !

  • shazam_z3
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Shovel prune = Get rid of a plant by "pruning" it with a shovel (i.e. dig it up and throw it out)

    Tip over method = Come fall, partially dig up plant. Lay it on its side, and cover it with mulch. Do reverse in spring. There are variations.

    Not on its own roots = Many roses are grafted. So the top of the plant is the plant you want, and the bottom is another type of rose. Many hybridized roses have extremely weak root systems, so they're grafted. Others sucker like mad, and grafting them prevents them from doing so. There are other reasons as well.

    Most plant stock come from the same manufacturers (Bylands, Pan Am are two of the big ones in NA), so really, you're getting the same thing wherever you buy. However, greenhouses usually have much better selection and take care of their plants far better than other places. Having said that, you can usually find one or two big box stores near you that has staff that actually care.

  • squirelette
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi,
    I see some of you mention the Hunter rose, I have it on my list to buy next year, too long a list this year. Is it a dark red or a rosy red I have seen both and how is the fragrance, my priority. What about height, I am looking at it because it is fairly short. Thanks

  • sazzyrose
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you can find Emily Carr or George Vancouver at any of the chain stores, and the look fine...grab them.

    The Hunter is an Awesome rose. You can't go wrong with this variety.

    Shelley

  • nutsaboutflowers
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks a bunch Sazzyrose ! I found both Emily Carr and George Vancouver this weekend =:) I also bought a Topaz Jewel. I love yellow. I see on your wonderful list that you have one. Any comments about it?

    These are the first roses for me so I hope they don't have to be "shovel pruned", hee, hee! I lusted over my old neighbour/friend's roses for years, so I'm really looking forward to nurturing them.

  • sazzyrose
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Topaz is a little more shy with the blooms but lovely anyways.
    Fertilize your rugosas with an organic fertilizer. They don't like the chemical ones like Miracle Grow.

    Shelley

  • nutsaboutflowers
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Sazzyrose (Shelley). Me again.

    I have horrible compacted clay soil. I was planning on digging the hole and filling it in with a whole bunch of compost that I started 4 years ago. Good? Then, every week or so, I'm going to sprinkle coffee grounds.

  • shazam_z3
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not a huge fan of using coffee grounds. Caffeine is a very powerful insecticide (that's why plants make it).

  • sazzyrose
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you have clay, you might have to use chelated iron as well.
    My rugosas have trouble here with my clay based soil too.
    The compost will work good. I personally haven't used the coffee grounds on my roses. (I save them for my lilies)

  • sharons2
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Sazzyrose (Shelley). Can you compare Aunt Honey, Country Dancer, and Earth Song in terms of floriferousness, repeat bloom, shape, size, fragrance, and bloom life? I'd be really interested to hear what you thought about them.

    Also, does anyone have a picture of a full-grown John Davis rose bush? I mostly see pictures that are only a few feet tall, and I want to know where I should really plant mine.

    Thanks,
    Sharon

  • northspruce
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Re: John Davis, I have one that is coming into its 4th summer. The first two summers it was small and short (it's own root) but last year it sent up a lot of thick, flexible, 5-foot tall canes. I think this year it's going to warrant an obelisk or something. I could take a picture but it doesn't have leaves or anything right now. Some of the pics of bigger specimens at Helpmefind look totally plausible to me (see link, if necessary click the photos tab).

    Here is a link that might be useful: John Davis at HMF

  • Mercury_Z3
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bumpity bump bump please!

  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago

    Love to get updates on the newer roses acquired and how well they have done.

  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago

    Hi Mary, thank you for bumping up this older thread, this was one of my favourties. Here's my own horribly detailed rose report, after the very cold winter of early 2019, was around -20 to -30C for about a month. Almost all roses are about three weeks to a month behind in blooming this year because it took so very long for the soil to warm up. This is a list of what I have this year:


    Rugosas:

    Marie Bugnet

    Therese Bugnet

    Louise Bugnet

    Wasagaming

    Snow Pavement - my favourite. Soft lilac colour & more floriferous than my other rugosas.

    Scarlet Pavement

    Blanc de Double Coubert

    Michel Trudeau


    Rugosa hybrids:

    Hansaland - died back to the ground & is coming back strong

    Polareis

    Sir Thomas Lipton

    Turbo


    Spinosissima/Scotch roses:

    Stanwell Perpetual

    sadly Prairie Peace died last year, it was moved once too often & had it's root cut.


    Parkland/Explorer/Canadian Artist/49th Parallel Series:

    Campfire

    Canadian Shield

    Champlain

    Cuthbert Grant

    Emily Carr

    Frontenac

    Hope for Humanity

    J.P. Connell

    John Cabot

    Morden Blush

    Morden Centennial

    Morden Sunrise

    Never Alone

    Oscar Peterson

    Prairie Joy

    Quadra

    Winnipeg Parks


    Others:

    rosa glauca (or something similar. a bird pooped it out)

    Dr. Merkeley

    L.D. Braithwaite

    Above and Beyond

    Queen of Denmark

    Tuscany


    Miniatures:

    Gilardi

    Janice Tellan

    Jelly Bean

    Lavender Crystal

    Perla De Montserrat

    Sachet

    Sweet Chariot

    Sweet Fairy

    Tracey Wickham

    X-Rated

    Yellow Bantam



    Not sure if I've already mentioned this website to you, but HelpMeFind ( https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/index.php) is one of my favourite resources on roses (in addition to these forums). I can often find photos, ratings & comments on most roses.


    From the varieties I grow, this is what I observe:


    Largest bloom sizes - Winnipeg Parks, Cuthbert Grant, L.D. Braithewaite, Michel Trudeau


    Most fragrant - Rugosas


    Surprisingly moderately fragrant - Winnipeg Parks, Cuthbert Grant, Morden Sunrise, Above & Beyond, Turbo (strawberry scent), J.P. Connell (almost strongly fragrant)


    Least fragrant - The Parkland, Explorer, Canadian Artist & 49th Parallel not listed above. Emily Carr stood out to me as being not fragrant.


    Fragrant miniatures - Sweet Fairy, Lavender Crystal, Janice Tellian, Yellow Bantam


    Most cupped, round old English rose style blooms - Prairie Joy, Morden Blush, Queen of Denmark


    Most hybrid tea like form - Campfire


    Early bloomers - Therese Bugnet, Wasagaming, Snow Pavement


    Late bloomers - Turbo. I used to have Rugelda, which was a late bloomer, sadly it died.


    Longer bloom life - Emily Carr, Campfire, Canadian Shield, Never Alone, Quadra, Hansaland.

    Marie Bugnet also has very good bloom life for a rugosa.


    Most floriferous - Champlain. The plant seems to suffer because of this - it tends to get powdery mildew. Oscar Peterson & Never Alone are also floriferous.


    Best bush form/shape - Prairie Joy for it's tight compact foliage. Therese Bugnet for it's arching vase shape.


    Least disease resistance (varies by year) - J.P. Connell, Champlain


    I find hardiness can be subjective based on snow cover, micro climate, soil conditions & health of the plant. Generally speaking for me the rugosas and scotch roses are more cane hardy, whereas the rest are crown or snowline hardy & recover quite quickly. I am fortunately in a low disease prone site, and I don't see blackspot too often. It must be all that constant drying wind here.




  • L Clark (zone 4 WY)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Excellent info, prairie northrose.Thanks for the write up. I planted Morden Blush, John Davis, John Cabot and Cuthbert Grant this year. I'm glad that you like Cuthbert Grant as I'm most excited about this one.

    I have two hybrid teas (Blue Girl and All of My Loving) that have grown back from just above the graft and were about to bloom until a nasty hailstorm wiped them out and they are growing back slowly. I lost three other hybrid teas over the winter. I also have Hope for Humanity that did well with little die back, but I did pile tons of snow on it throughout the winter. Anyway, I'm wiser now - only Canadian roses for me from here on out.

  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    It's really nice of you to give a report Prairienorth., and you obviously put a lot of thought into it. I agree you can only report on your exact garden and sometimes a really tough darling dies, out of the blue - as in my Double de Coubert. Good thing I had given a neighbour a piece - insurance polity in the end. When you rate floriferous is that a sort of overall thing?

    So, would you agree, in general. from your vast experience that the bushes that hold their flowers longest are usually the ones that have cane die back nearly to the crown? Is it just the nature of a rugosa type to drop petals quickly?

  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago

    Lane - I've heard very good things about John Davis, although I don't really have the room for him. There's one up at the local agriculture college & it's a good size & looks fantastic. They have it growing without support as a bush, it has long thick arching stems. Only had a little bit of die back from this last brutal winter. I adore Cuthbert Grant, it's got good fragrance for a Parkland series rose, and the blooms are burgundy/wine colour. Petals are velvety. Nice globular shaped blooms which remind me of peonies. However as the blooms are so large, they tend to nod down. It usually has about three flushes of blooms for me. I'm not a huge fan of the bush shape, it's a bit straggly, but the foliage has always been healthy. The blooms make it worth keeping for me:



    In addition to the Canadian roses, there are some US bred roses which work for me, Above & Beyond is a new one I'm trying, it's supposed to be pretty tough. UK/David Austin rose L.D. Braithwaite is surprisingly doing as well as my Parkland roses, however it happens to be in a sheltered location. Good to know I'm not the only one dealing with the frustration of hail, I tend to place the plants which recover better from hail further from the shelter of the house.


    Mary - Blanc Double de Coubert sometimes get cholorsis for me, which weakens the plant. I should have planted it in better soil or amended the soil. I'm still learning a lot. Yes, I find rugosas drop quickly, perhaps because they are closer to their wild species. Except for Marie Bugnet, a rugosa with thicker petals, I'll have to pay attention to how many days the blooms last on this one, I'm sure it's longer than my other rugosas. I got mine through the mail through Cornhill Nursery, but I have seen it a couple of times in the garden nurseries. I noticed F.J Grootendorst is a parent of Marie Bugnet, I've never grown F.J. myself, but perhaps that's where it gets the longer bloom life from.


    Floriferous to me is a rose with a high quantity of flowers, compared to the overall bush size. Some of my miniatures are also extremely floriferous. I suppose another word might be prolific. Here's a photo of Champlain from a few years ago, it often has red blooms until frost:



  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago

    Mary, your garden is absolutely lovely, your pink theme is beautiful & very romantic. Thank you for sharing your helpful experiences with your rose varieties. I love your idea of training Therese as a standard! Good to hear Love Song does well for you, I'm thinking of one day trying some out of zone roses such as Distant Drums and Nahema. Glad to hear you like Morden Centennial as well. A few years ago I was determined to make a hedge of roses, I ended up going with Winnipeg Parks, but Morden Centennial would have also been a good choice.


    With your pink theme, you might also like 'Martin Frobisher'. It's a tough and hardy rose, grows tall & has very pale pink blooms which might complement your garden. 'Polareis' has also been very tough for me (under reliable snow cover), and has lovely light pink-white blooms. 'Bonica' and 'John Davis' might fit well in your garden too, plus are readily available at many garden nurseries around here.


    The spinosissima, also known as Scotch or burnet roses are probably the hardiest and bloom the earliest, there was no die back on them at the rose garden at the college up the road here. They take a while to establish, but once there, they are bulletproof. Unfortunately they are not commonly available, the only commercial source I'm aware of is Cornhill nursery. This is 'Suzanne,' 'Prairie Peace' and an unknown yellow at the college last week, blooming much earlier than the other roses. Everything is late except for them:








  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Thank you. I've had a love affair with flowers since I was very young, and just recently began getting crazy about roses. But, the last few years the Japanese Beetle has been so voracious that I don't know whether it's worth adding more or not. The first two years I had Hansa there wasn't a bloom that was not totally destroyed by them. I was just so inspired by your very informative sharing that I thought I'd add my experiences if it was helpful for someone else.

    I had Martin Froebisher for a while, moved it and it did alright and then died. A great rose if you've got the space. Yes, the medium pinks like John Davis do quite tempt me as well as Prairie Joy I think it is. So much good info in these posts I have to come back to them and re-read them several times. Love the inspiration.


    As to training into standard I'm trying it with hydrangea cuttings and thought why not try a rose with these suckers that come along. Still very early stages for all, I'm not sure if it's been one or two winters with the rose, but it's a really slow process. Given how lax the canes are on Therese I prune it a lot to try to make wood that will hold and honestly it may be a total flop as an experiment, but,...it's interesting.

  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago

    Mary, have the Japanese Beetles appeared in the same numbers for you this year? I wonder if the extended cold last winter was enough to reduce their population.

  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    We've only had them as a problem for a few years, but in the last 3-4 years the Japanese Beetles appeared about the first week of July and stayed till the end of August. We are a little behind this year in terms of bloom time, but I think the gap is now narrowing. So, I haven't seen any yet, but following the previous years I'd have at least a week or so to wait. My Hansa was much smaller before and so did not bloom as early as this year as it is now much more mature. I'm so grateful to finally be able to enjoy a few of its' blooms before the descent of the destructive, hungry Japanese Beetles. It is curious to me that they don't damage the floribunda or the knock outs nearly as much as the more hardy roses. I have to wonder if it is something about petal texture and if more waxy petals are not as tempting. Or is it texture and fragrance together that makes Hansa such a JB magnet. Or is it just co-incidence. I would so love if the cold weather reduced them, but have no idea if the cold damp spring would affect their growth underground in the grub form. I appreciate the good thoughts. :)

  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago

    With all the newer varieties of hardy clear pink roses, is Jens Munk still something any of you would go out of your way to get even with all the thorns?


  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago

    I would, but I’m coming from a place where after about five years of growing a few different types of roses, I realize I now prefer fragrant & cane hardy roses.


    Many of the newer roses lack fragrance and are only crown hardy but not cane hardy for me in zone 3b. This combination does not spark joy for me.


    If I were to grow Jens Munk it would be in hopes I don’t have cut as many canes which die from the winter, it is supposed to be very hardy. Less cutting canes = less work & less exposure to thorns.

  • wayne
    4 years ago

    I will second that, LOL.

  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago

    Such good practical info. Love you guys. (and would love to see your gardens!) Cane die back in cooler climates is not really a subject on care tags, but it does make a difference. What a joy it is to have growth starting at 4 feet on something like a Hansa or Therese Bugnet rather than looking at an empty looking garden as the leaves come out. Not growing many Mordens yet, I tend to lump the Mordens in the same category as the Explorers and Rugosas, but from what I'm hearing the Mordens are hardy, but not as "cane" hardy? Do I interpret that correctly? If so this makes a huge difference in the height I would achieve in my 4B garden.

    Curious because I'm discovering the Mordens. I've grown Morden Centennial (was mislabed as William Baffin so that took a while to ID when it refused to grow tall!) and just got a scratch and dent Prairie Dawn last year and lately looking into Prairie Princess, Prairie Joy, and the prairie clan including Morden Belle, etc., but was put off by some of the taller heights. have some dieback on my Morden Centennial, but thought it was unique to that series. If these Mordens have a lot of dieback would I likely never have to worry about Prairie Dawn getting too tall, or the same if I were to buy Prairie Princess.?

    So appreciate hearing from everyone.

  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Hi Mary, I've learned a lot from this forum as well! Another factor in my preferences is I'm getting older and don't want to bend down low to "smell the roses." Tall, fragrant & low maintenance is what I want for my garden these days. Fragrant miniatures I hope to keep potted & up higher to enjoy.


    Yes, there is crown hardy, then there is cane hardy. Most of the Morden roses are only crown hardy for me - their canes die but they grow back fast & strong. But not all zones are the same (ex. my neighbour's Morden Sunrise rarely dies back & is 4 feet tall, mine dies back to the snowline. I swear they're at least half a zone warmer than me!), maybe that's why cane hardiness is rarely described on tags.


    A quick run down of some of the rose groups as I informally think of them, based on what is available to me. I'm sure there are more official ways (and multiple names) to describe them. They overlap in the sense that some Explorers are "rugosas", some Explorers are "modern":


    Types:

    Species (wild roses such as woodsii, arkansana, virginiana, etc. My understanding is all roses are bred from species roses, which affect the hardiness depending on the species used.)

    Rugosas (rugose leaves)

    Rugosa hybrids (cross between a rugosa and a modern rose)

    Scotch (aka Spinossisima or Burnet)

    Gallicas (dark rich colours, once blooming)

    Albas (modtly soft pinks, fragrant, once blooming)

    Hybrid teas (not hardy for me, but often fragrant with large blooms. Ex. 'Peace' or 'Double Delight')

    Modern (I use this term to describe the mixed bag of roses developed in the last few decades. These are usually somewhat shrubby, lower maintenance & meant for the garden.)


    And then there are "brands". These are usually developed from a rose breeder or company with specific goals in mind. Some brands available to me:

    Canadian Explorer (ex. Martin Frobisher, Jens Munk, John Cabot, Frontenac & more. Most are tough/hardy, but many are larger)

    Canadian Parkland (ex. Morden Blush, Moden Sunrise, Winnipeg Parks, Hope for Humanity & more. Smaller compared to the Explorers, flashier flowers, but poorer health for some.)

    Canadian Artist (ex. Oscar Peterson, Campfire & more.)

    49th Parallel (ex. Chinook Sunrise, Canadian Shield & more. The latest series of Canadian roses.)

    Pavement Series (ex. Snow Pavement, Purple Pavement & more. Mostly rugosas.)

    David Austin (ex. Heritage, Golden Celebration & more. Famous as Engligh shrub roses)

    Buck Roses Collection (ex. Distand Drums, Prairie Princess & more. Known for good health. )

    Oso Easy from Proven Winners (these make a great landscaping rose for constant colour but I don't grow them as they are low growing and usually not fragrant to my nose).


    Note, the name Prairie at the beginning has been used by a few different companies/breeders. Although some may share some of the same parents, not all do. For example, Prairie Peace and Prairie Celebration are very different.


    My latest interest are roses like Therese Bugnet, which was bred in Alberta. Here's a garden shot from 2017, things are a little late to bloom this year:


  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago

    Excellent point about "Prairie" not being specific to Mordens. Thank you. I needed that pointed out. The "helpmefind" site is so nice because you can see the parents of a rose, much the same way I used to do with daylilies. Almost makes one want to try their hand at breeding your own for fun. Not sure though. When I did that with daylilies I couldn't decide which ones to throw out. :)

  • L Clark (zone 4 WY)
    4 years ago

    I’m hoping the wise people on this forum can provide me with an ID. It’s mildly fragrant. Seems to be doing well which is a feat in my climate so it’s tough, wind-resistant and hardy. Photo:

    bush shot:

  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Mary, good to hear you've tried breeding daylilies. I've been dabbling in breeding roses & I agree, the HelpMeFind website has been very useful in seeing the parentage tree & descendants of roses. At first I was confused about the "Prairie" name as well, and then realized it was a popular word used by many.


    Lane, that looks like 'Winnipeg Parks', one of my favourites. It's from the Canadian Parkland series of roses. It's great to see how tall it can get for you. I grow seven of them close together as a hedge:



  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I did buy that Jens Munk that was half price and half dead. There is something so wonderful about the cane hardy roses, Prairie North,. You are either inspiring me or enabling me, I'm not sure. I'm so in love with my Hansa and it's just mouthwatering with the self seeded foxgloves and pick up the deeper purply shades. Somewhere in my youth or childhood I must have done something good - as Julie Andrews sang, because I haven't put foxgloves in there for 4 or 5 years.


    A few more prayers that the Japanese Beetles stay away a bit longer. Don't know where exactly to put Jens Munk though. I don't want to put her where she'll obscure the view of a flowerbed since she can be dense. Any thoughts on size and placement in zone 4?

  • shazam_z3
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Well I see my 11 year old report has come back to haunt me, lol.


    I moved houses the next year after the original post. The new house had a backyard with a dead maple tree in a corner and dead grass on the sides (why people do this, I'll never figure out). I ripped out a large water feature that straddled the back edge of the backyard. The new yard is quite a bit smaller and faces east unfortunately, unlike the direct sizzling south exposure of my old yard. I decided to plant a lot more trees this time around for privacy and windbreaking. I kept the roses down to a few this time - just Emily Carr, Hunter, Morden Blush, John Davis, Quadra and John Cabot in the back. The east exposure does allow me to plant hydrangeas in certain areas though. And this time I was determined to get an Itoh Peony put in, which I did - I found a Bartzella for "cheap".


    The front yard was "professionally" landscaped with hardy specimens like weigela, which of course does great in Calgary's weather in totally exposed areas. And of course "pros" always pick the most boring plants. Ug. Gee thanks for the basic purple Preston lilac. Anyhow I ripped out the dead stuff and put in a Morden Belle amongst some junipers. I put in a large white rose in a spot where for some reason there was nothing at all (I think it's Blanc de Coubert). The front yard is actually collosal for a city lot due to the way this house's lot is arranged, so I'm still thinking of putting in some sort of hedge all around the edge of the front lot.


    I did two things differently this time when I made the beds: All the beds are raised at least a little bit. I put 2X6s along the fence to keep grass out from the neighbour's lawns. This has worked out very well. I also decided to use groundcover plants as living mulch. This has turned out very well as well. All in all the amount of maintenance I have to do has decreased quite a bit as a result.


    Well so there you go. I hope my initial post was useful to somebody and inspired at least one person to try planting the delightful roses that are available to us.

  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    4 years ago

    Mary, glad to hear you found 'Jens Munk'. This year I bought one from Walmart labelled as 'Jens Munk' before it had leafed out, but it turned out to be 'Therese Bugnet'. The Jens Munk at the college north from me looks like it has grown to full size, it is about the same size and height as Therese Bugnet.


    Shazam, yes your initial post has been very helpful to me, I like the way you organized your rose descriptions. Glad to hear you have less maintenance with the newer yard. I’ve been increasing groundcover plants as well under many roses, wooly thyme and sedum 'Acre' are working so far.

  • mary_rockland
    4 years ago

    Weigela! I've had a terrible time here in 4B getting any weigelas to bloom more than 1 foot from the ground no matter what care and we have good snow cover. Interesting they'd chose that in zone 3. I just ripped out my "Fine Wine" yesterday with all it's glorious deep coloured leaves that look brown next to my campanulas and my "Minuet" barely even leafed this spring. This is my second time with Minuet because she didn't bloom the first time I bought one.

    oh and by the way I love creeping thyme as a lawn. It crept into mine accidentallly from the flower bed, seems to take over more each year and it's wonderful. Stays alive when the grass dies.

    I find sedum acre seeds and creeps into every nook and cranny on it's own. But at least it's not hard to control when it does.

    Oh, Prairie North sorry to hear about your mislabel. I hate when that happens with plants.

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