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Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Posted by troman1973 4 (My Page) on
Fri, Aug 10, 07 at 22:17

Hi

I was just wondering if anyone has grown one of these Cherry trees? I saw that it was just introduced into the USA, according to Gurney's magazine. I believe it was introduced in Canada and has hardiness to zone 2b. It is a semi dwarf tree with a height of around 6 1/2 feet. According to their magazine it has better taste than sweet cherry's. It can produce 15lbs of fruit by the fourth year.

This sounds like a great tree if it is as good as they say. To find that cold hardy of a tree is rare.

I am just checking to see if anyone has grown one? or has knowledge of the tree? Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Here is a link to the web page

http://gurneys.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_72500


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I planted a couple last spring. I can't comment on the cherries yet, but it breezed through the winter and must be close to 5' tall now.

Shelley


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Thanks for the info Shelley!

Do you have Cherry's this year?

How tall was it when you planted it?

Do they get bushy?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

>>According to their magazine it has better taste than sweet cherry's<<

Thats only true if you like sour cherries more then sweet.

I had two plants but gave up growing them, the cherries are smaller then Evans, they are not growing as well and had allot of freeze back, they actually died out!
Butyou should test them in your location anyway.
Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I didn't have any cherries on them this year. They were babies when I planted them last year, and were probablt 12 - 18" tall.
I did plant the Evans as well last spring. It died right back this spring and then my DH got to close with the whipper snipper this summer. It is growing again, but I have no comment on this one because of the damage.

Shelley


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Do you know of a sweet cherry that is cold hardy? Is Evans a sweet cherry?

If you were to purchase one or two cherry trees what kind would you purchase, that is also cold hardy?

Thanks again for the help


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Evans is another sour cherry. I planted all of my cherry trees last spring including a few newer releases from the UofS.
I can't tell you which is my favorite yet.
Shelley


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

>>Do you know of a sweet cherry that is cold hardy<<

Cold hardy for what? You dont show what zone youre in.
I grow some, like Lapins, Stella just for fun but not considered cold hardy for zone 3.
Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Sorry you didnt see it Konrad, but I did post a zone 4 on my first post. I am actually closer to a zone 3 than zone 4. Are the two variety's you listed sweet cherry? You say you grow them for fun, did they ever produce fruit? I think I seen some of your fruit trees posted before Konrad. You have a awesome orchard. Since you are in Zone 3 I would love to here what variety's you would recommend for other fruit trees to plant. I currently have a 2 year Contender Peach and just planted a Harcot apricot tree. I also have a Manchurian apricot.

THanks for any help


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Sorry, troman1973 I didn't see that you were a zone 4 either. Guess you mean the letter 4, after your name in your name and date and time section at the top of the posting, refers to the zone you are in. I was looking for a zone in the message of your posting.

I have an Evans (in trade from Laurie) this spring but do not know how sweet it will be.

I like the nanking cherries. They are sweet but small and can be used for jams or jellies or eating fresh.

Brenda (zone 2b-3)


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Just have to jump in here with some comments! The Nankings are far underrated as far as I am concerned. It seems there is not much being done to increase the size of the fruit (because they are bush rather than a tree?) We really like them for jam, jelly, and pie filling where you get to spit legally! On the other hand they do have trouble with consistent production due to spring frost and wind damage. I have a Manchurian Apricot which is about 12 ft tall but since we do not have a pollinator it is not a good fruit producer. It also has a problem with spring frost damaging the blossoms! I have read if you can get them on an East slope and keep the roots covered, they will tend to bloom later but not all of us have a sloped yard to work with. I think the U of S is working on a sweet cherry for the prairies but not sure how that is coming along. Some of their sour cherry introductions do have a higher sugar count so leaving them on the tree as long as possible might make them sweeter too.
This is a good conversation. I have cherry plums but not enough water to have them produce good.

Clayton


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I agree that Nankings are not a waste of time. I even like them for fresh eating, although if you want to compare them to a Bing or Ranier cherry you will be sadly disappointed.

The bushes also have a good ornamental value if they are kept pruned. I didn't have trouble with fruit set due to frost, except last year when a warm spring brought them into bloom early. They will suffer but not fail completely if cool weather during bloom keeps the pollinating insects away.

Clayton, do you know anything about Nankings suddenly dying? In my old yard I had six bushes, and two of them just turned up dead suddenly in the spring. It was two different years. I didn't know if it was a blight or what.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Hi - I have a Carmine Jewel in my little back yard - I have been attempting to prune it into a tree so have taken alot of the bottom branches off. This would likely be its 6th year - it was developed at the University of Saskatchewan and introduced in 1999. I bought mine a couple of years after I saw it for the first time at Garden scape. It is now about 8 ft tall - loves my sunny back yard. This year my neighbour picked 4 icecream buckets of cherries off of it and made syrup and jam. The maintenance man at the condo likes just eating them and each year that I've tried them out they seem to be a bit sweeter than the year before. The university has developed some other strains - my department head at the library has planted 300 on his acreage just outside of the city 150 each of Romeo and Juliette. This is a link that should take you to a page from the University of Saskatchewan Fruit development program
http://www.usask.ca/agriculture/plantsci/dom_fruit/2003_cherries.doc
I hope this helps

Fern


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Thanks Fern That link does help Alot! But now I am more confused than ever!! Sounds like I have to many to choose from!

I had never heard of Romeo and Juliet! According the to report they might be a better choice for me?? Where can you buy a Romeo or Juliet Cherry Tree? I am actually not a big cherry fan, I am really planting them for family members. I have never even really eaten a cherry before, so I dont know the difference between sweet and sour cherry, but sour cherry obviously sounds very bad, but they must be eaten?? When they say sour cherry are they good to eat than? I would love to do what your friend did and start a orchard of some sort, but finding what to plant is the problem.

I am still looking for opinions on the best tasting sweet cherry for Zone 3. Thanks for all the help


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Regarding the Nankings dying - this has happened to me and I am not sure what happens. I have wondered if they can get too dry going into winter as we tend to be very dry here on average when the snow comes. One thing a person should do is have a look at the roots when you pull/dig them out as there could be destruction from insects or nematodes or suchlike.

Sour cherries are becoming big business in Saskatchewan and Alberta. There is now a Cherry Marketing Group and I think the Blue Honeysuckle folks are not far behind.

Clayton


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Troman, your enthusiasm says it all. Good luck on your endeavor.

May I also add some FYI advice?

If you would go to the "member pages" at the bottom of this page, click on "personal preferences", you could permanently add your zone to all your postings. Including your "4" now and then on your posts certainly confuses us, when we need to search through all your postings, rather than any of them to find your zone. Our lack of knowledge about you here isn't completely our fault. You could even prefix your zone number with a "z" and suffix it with your province, if you like. If you meant you're on the cold end of zone 4, you could put "z4a", as I did. (Zone 4b is the warmer half of the zone.)


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Thanks I didnt know that you could set your zone. I thought you had to do it everytime. I will check it out.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

How about the dwarf cherry bush??? How tall do they get? anyone in the south have one?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Heya Troman
Although the carmine jewel is touted as being hardy to zone 3a, I would give it a little protection from the winters prevailing winds. This cultivar is definitley not a sweet cherry. (difference between sweet and sour is exactly how it sounds. Sweet cherries can be eaten off the tree, while sour cherries are best for preserves, jams, jellies...)
My 3 favorite sweet cherries for gardens in zones 2b-4a is Juliette, romeo and my preference Cupid. These were all developed at U of S and are great for lower zones. These can be purchased at Boughens Nursery in Manitoba. I think they have been in buisness for almost 100 years, and remember my grandparents ordering from them.
I hope this answers some of your questions, and good luck


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Thanks orchidguy!

I have heard of those cherries before. I didnt realize they were sweet cherries though. I have tried to order those varieties, but they are only available in Canada and they dont ship to the U.S. Do those varieties self fruitful? I tried a Black Gold and Kristen cherry tree which the company said they were hardy to -30, but I think I put them in to wet of ground and they died, So I wont know if they could survive a winter here. I think a sweet cherry would be better for me than a sour one.

Thanks for the info


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

> My 3 favorite sweet cherries for gardens in zones 2b-4a is Juliette, romeo and my preference Cupid.<

These are all sour cherries.
There is really not a sweet cherry out there what is good for zone 3 and 4.

Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Thanks Konrad, thats what I thought.

I bought my Blackgold and Kristen sweet cherry trees from Miller Nursery in New York their website claims the tree is hardy to -30 which would be ok here. Have you heard this?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Yes, including Lapin, I have one growing here, still hanging on, fruitbuds got damaged last cold, minus 45 C winter.
In your zone 4 , you might have a sheltered microclimate, this could push the zone to a 5.
I'm sure, your zone will be much better then mine.
But...you have to except some years of misses.

Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Thats encouraging that you are growing a sweet cherry. I am going to try again next year. I dont mind the misses as long as I get some hits!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

The U. of S. website lists a few places in the U.S. to get Carmine, but not the others, such as Romeo and Juliet. I emailed and got a response, "The popularity of our new varieties has generated too many phone calls and emails which are hindering our ability to do our jobs...."

So, I will throw this out to the general public. Does anyone know where to get the other varieties of the U. of S. cherries in the United States?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I know that this year Gurneys Seed and Nursery sold the Carmine Jewel, so maybe if you contact them, they can get other cold hardy varieties.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Hi,

Some of the "tart" cherries are actually sweeter than the sweet cherries. I've listed some brix value below, along with the web reference.

Brix values of nine sweet cherries ranged from 15.5 ("Bing") to 21.9.
http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=795_136

Brix value of 6 sour cherries:
http://www.letempsdescerises.ca/varietes.html

Evans (P.Cesarus): 12 to 14 Brix
Carmen Jewel (P.X Kerrasis) : 20 Brix
Crimson Passion (Big Momma) : 23 Brix
Juliette: 20 to 23 Brix
Cupid (Big late): 17 Brix

Sources in Canada: (don't know if they mail to the US)
Dominion seed house: Romeo and Juliette
dominion-seed-house.com

McFayden's: Cupid
http://www.mcfayden.com

Alberta nurseries: Carmine Jewel
http://www.gardenersweb.ca


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I have a nanking cherry did very wel last year if you can keep the birds away I aoso have a sancherry that we were told would be a good pollinator for our pembina plum but it does not bloom when the plum does.Is there another pollinator for the pembina.Take note I bought a Sam dwrf cherry tree from B.C. last year banked up to the middle of the tree and covered and still lost it nyhing likebeing an optomist right


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

It would be good if you can put your climate zone into your home page.
What zone are you in?
I've heard this before with sand cherry & plum.....please don't fall for
this one.
You need another plum, the more the better, I would get at least another
two, a Supreme, Patterson's Pride, Greenville, Dandy etc...any of the
Japanese.

Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I have an Evans (Bali) cherry that has produced a few cherries for three years now here in Minnesota Z3. The flavor is great. I eat them right off the tree and can't wait for it to get big enough to give me more cherries. I plan to plant a couple more. The "sour" cherries are also known as pie cherries and as Van type. Some are so sour that you really need to cook them with sugar to enjoy them, but Evans is sweet enough to eat fresh. I want to try some of the other new ones like Carmine Jewel. Now I'm excited about trying Lapins too!

I also have some native wild cherries: pincherry,chokecherry, and black cherry. They are too sour to eat fresh, but they make wonderful jelly. They are hardy even in the Z2 area around Bemidji, MN.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

passion4perennials: Where did you buy your Evans cherry from? When you say the flavor is great, do you mean it has sweetness?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I got my Evans from Bergeson's Nursery near Fosston, MN. They don't do mail order...you have to go there. I have seen Evans offered in various catalogs. St. Lawrence Nursery offers them as Bali Cherry--same thing. A link for St. Lawrence is below. I Googled Bali cherry and found several nurseries that offer 'Evans Bali cherry.'

I love both the cherry flavor and the fact that they are sweet enough to eat fresh.

Here is a link that might be useful: St. Lawrence Nursery


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Can you tell me if a Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree will grow and fruit in So. Calif Zone:10. I got one 2yr. ago and it is alive but not growing. Please Help! Jim


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

In regard to fruiting the dwarf cherries I would say NO. I have tested a couple of the cousins to Carmine Jewel to 5 foot tall. They bloom good but have a very weak fruit set rate. So this applies to Southern Washington west of the Cascades. I have tried Evans and the fruit set was just as bad or even worse. It seems that some stone hardy fruits just need the cold winters to produce properly.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I planted a Nanking about 5 years ago, it blooms but no fruit, ever... I have read where they do need a pollinator and then that they don't.... Can you give me some guideance on this please... I bought it on whim so to speak, but since then I really would like fruit.

Have planted more fruit trees in my small garden, getting apples, and pears but my Apricot died out this spring... It made it through two winters then gone.... Not giving up on an Apricot though..

I bought a Gala apple this spring, tag said it's good to minus fifty.. Woo Hoo. Thanks for any help you provide.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I had the same problem with Nanking...when I planted plum trees I got fruits.

Your Gala will most certainly not survive....they are at best up to minus
30C.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

The so called Nanking Cherry are really related to plums. So Konrad, when you say that you planted plums, you mean the "nankings" began to be productive, right? So I wonder if you will be planting any hybrid plums out this way. They should be more hardy than plums since nankings are growing in Alaska Z1 better than plums do.

The only hazard in waiting so long for them to fruit might be just that the nanking fruits are very small. I have seen lots of hybrid fruits and what happens (at least in stone fruits) is that the hybrid fruits size results in half the way in diameter between of what you would expect from each parent. (example: left to right "- plus --- = --")

I know from a paper from University Saskatchewan, what is claimed is plums cannot be relied on to pollinate nankings. My beliefs are that you can if you are in the right location of the country where spring comes late but turns to summer rather quickly. For example this last spring (Fairbanks Alaska) I was able to make crosses from two species of apricots and beach plum pollen. All three made good to what I think was a seedling of between prunus nigra and prunus salicina. (with some of the blooms this year he seedling was proven to be self UN-compatible, so emasculation of the flowers in all crosses I believed to be not necessary)

Some of the same kind of crosses performing in Vancouver Washington USA after having cool rainy sring weather never produced anything. But again my self pollinated Shiro plums still performed great in Vancouver, as usual.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Here is a link to an Alaskan grower with lots of experience.

Here is a link that might be useful: Clair Lammers


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Alcan,
Haven't seen you here for a long time.

>>So I wonder if you will be planting any hybrid plums out this way<<

Not really, I do put some plum seeds out, have a hard time for germination. The Nanking bush is struggling this year and didn't set any fruit.
You have asked me for Evans cherry seeds grown on pin cherry several years
back, when I had a whole bunch about 2 years ago I contacted
you for mailing address but didn't get a reply. The seeds I kept in the fridge, [shop]
for a long time and when I wanted to plant myself they were gone...
somebody cleaned out the fridge. I might be picking some this year, [hail got them pretty good]...are you still interested?

Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Konrad, you mentioned that your Nankings were struggling this year. Both of ours ended up with a lot of dead branches and the one that my husband "pruned" with the chainsaw is just a stick! There were very few flowers and just a few fruits. These trees are about 25 years old. Is this normal aging, or should they last longer than this?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I find dead branches is a common thing on Nanking, about 2/3 of the bush died out.
I'm not sure how long they last, mine is about 15years old....I would think yours did pretty good. I have planted about 30 Nanking 2 years ago, just little sticks, some I use for a test on rootstock for plum....grafted some, the others look very healthy but still too young for them to flower.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Yes, i've always trimmed dead branches from them, but this year was excessive. And there are some large branches that appear to be dead but have live ends. Guess we'll have to see how they do next year - just hope for the best!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I'm still hoping the Cupid, Crimson Passion, Romeo and Juliet will become available in the U.S. If anyone hears of a place that offers them in the future, let me know. I know Lawrence Nurseries used to have Crimson Passion, but hasn't sold them for the last two years. I presently have 3 Carmen Jewels, a Bali, a Meteor sour, one Kristin and two Lapins sweet cherries, but none have produced yet. One Lapins and the Meteor are about ten feet tall already. I live just east of St. Paul, MN. Northwoodswis


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Yes Konrad, It is true that Aug 15 was the first time I logged in for quite some time.

No I was never interested in the evans cherry seeds you speak of. At one time I was interested in seeds of the wild pin cherries for cold hardiness breeding purposes. Since then I decided to work with Clair Lammers in the crossing of sweet cherries to one of his Carmine Jewel trees at his apple orchard in Alaska. (same person somebody previously put up a link for).

Lots of patience in the spring crossing those but now I have a few dozen hybrid seed. I read some where on NAFEX that Carmine Jewels seeds are difficult to germinate. Anybody have any experiences or special instructions to share of germinating seeds of Carmine Jewel from somebody that has tried them?

Alcan.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Ok...so then not much lost. I rarely get a good pin cherry set.
I know Clair, he used to come down to Edmonton regularly to our fruit show.
Good luck with your cherry breed!

Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

If you are in the edmonton area, I have carmine jewel, romeo and juliet. At the end of their first year they are now all about 18-20 inches high. email me for pictures.

sgbotsford@gmail.com


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

This has been a good post to follow. Here at Saskatoon the Nanking cherries did not produce fruit and there were many dead stems. Most of the dead were at least 2 years old. I am beginning to think that this is like a built in protection so that the new shoots will be produced for the next couple of years. Nankings seem to produce cyclically and so if there is a bad spring they will miss as well. I do not have plum trees here that bloom but over the years have always had a good crop of fruit every 2nd or 3rd year. I do grow Simplex (ornamental) so maybe it is acting as a pollinator which leads me to believe that what is sold a Rose Tree of China (Prunus Triloba Multiplex) could also be a pollinator.

I am posting a new post regarding cherry-plums and other observations

Here is a link that might be useful: Northscaping


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Springhill nursery has it listed as far down as zone 8B (Carmine Jewel) I'm in zone 9A, which has acted more like 8 last 3 years, so am buying two and leaving in large pots to simulate 1 zone lower. Hope it works, I love cherries.

Springhill: http://springhillnursery.com/carmine-jewel-dwarf-cherry/p/72500/


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

So what do these newly introduced sour cherries actually taste like? I've grown Evan's cherry and Mongolian cherry (and Montmorency but I don't think it fruited) and I would describe the taste in those as "watery". They were OK, I didn't find them really sour, but they just didn't have much taste. Nothing like a sweet cherry, which is packed with flavour. Even the tiny native pin cherries (sour) and choke cherries (astringent) have a lot more taste than my Evan's did. Do Carmine Jewel and the latest "Romance" series from the U of Sask. have more flavour than something like Evans, or are they just hardier and with larger fruit?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I was think of planting one of these this spring. I have no experience with fruit trees or bushes. How long until the first crop is available to pick from this variety? I am zone 7. Thanks


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Fruits are smaller then Evans...that's about all I know, the flesh I think
is darker, so it could have more flavor. When the Evans gets red, I can
live them on until frost, about another month...then the flesh is darker,
also juice is dark with good flavor.
Don't forget, sour cherries are sour, this will grab most of the flavor,
but sweetness and flavor goes up when left longer on the tree.

Good for wine
Photobucket


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Konrad,
Would you mind sharing a recipe or two and further explain your wine making process? It looks exciting ;)


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I concur that leaving the fruit on the tree until the fruit darkens gives more flavour. Carmine Jewel makes very good jam.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Passion,
in link below it will explain, scroll down a bit.

Here is a link that might be useful: My Juicer


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Cherry Leaf Spot

I have planted quite a few of the Crimson Passion and the Carmine Jewel in western Iowa. They are cold hardy but very susceptible to wet weather and cherry leaf spot. I have had a hard time even with a regular fungicide program controlling it and have lost most of the Crimson Passion and a few of the Carmine Jewel


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Bill 4 Where's your (My Page) section?

It's always helpful for members to be able to look up your zone,etc.

Thanks


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I'm sorry to hear of Bill4's losses due to cherry leaf spot. Anyone else experience anything like that? I was considering planting a small orchard of Carmen Jewels and others as they become available. Maybe I need to give it second thoughts. Northwoodswis


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Fruit isn't darker, it's MUCH darker. Postpone picking as long as you can. It continues to get darker and sweeter.

There are 6 'Romance Cherries' from the univeristy of Saskatchewan. All are the results of crosses between this and that and a mongolian cherry. They don't breed true form seed. Most are cloned by tissue culture.

By reputation they start to bear in their 4th year, and by year 7 they are producing 25-35 pounds per year. You can maintain them either as a vase shape or as a small tree.

In sweetness they vary some, but are actually sweater than Bing. But they have lots of citric acid so they are also sour. Think cherry lemonade.

I'm got 3 varieties potted up. This will be their second year. I'll plant them out this fall, those I don't sell or transplant to larger pots.

Anyone in the Edmonton Area who wants to see them is welcome to come by once the snow is gone.

Regarding disease: Everything gets something. One of he ways to prevent this is to keep your trees farther apart. Disease doesn't spread so easily. For small orchard growing, alternate genuses. E.g. Cherry, Apple, Cherry Apple. Or Cherry, short row of raspberries, cherry, short row of raspberries.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Bummer about Bill4's cherry losses. I looked up cherry leaf spot, and sour cherries seem to be particularly succeptible. I'm not sure where in western Iowa he lives, so I gambled on Des Moines. Des Moines receives 35" of annual precipitation, which is almost double Edmonton's 18", so hopefully the dryness of the prairies can keep cherry leaf spot at bay, as it requires humidity and rain to thrive.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

OK, last year I purchased 2 Carmine Jewels one before the other and I planted them that way....well, I can say the deer really go for their leaves.....they were to young for cherry production. OK, they were $30.00 each. But they were doing so well I decided to get another this year....Well, what is this "NO SALE TO CALIFORNIA" now. Fields or Gurneys...to me this says someone has dicovered this can somehow interfere with Cherry Production???? or what?? why would it get banned this year when I could get them (expensive, yes) last year 2010....(This year I needed one to replace the Hansens that died)....I did find one place that would ship to CA, HoneyberryUSA, thank goodness.
So "they" must know something I don't, to not allow them to be shipped to California. Says they will live for 30 years..hummm, probably longer than I will....hummm, sounds like a pretty sound tree....well, production is to start in year 3....I do think they are be doing well...and somewhere...and someone knows that.....hehe....skylynn


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I live in Tennessee & have a 3yr old Dwarf Carmine
Jewel that has never bloomed. Does it need a
pollinator ?? My Nanking cherry bushes have not
bloomed, either.
Joan


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I'm very surprised your Carmine bush hasn't bloomed for you yet -- I put in one this spring, it's no more than 2 ft. tall and it had a few blooms. I thought they came into full production about year 4. Maybe you put in a very small seedling or it is in a very shady location? At any rate, no they don't need a pollinator, they are self-fertile.

Nanking cherries do need a pollinator. They will get a few cherries without a pollinator but vastly more with a pollinator. I think (but am not certain) the Carmine Jewel should work as a pollinator.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Skylynn mentioned, and I just met Bernis Ingvaldson of Honeyberry Farm who is involved with field trials and was exhibiting at Horticulture Days at North Central Research and Outreach Center Grand Rapids, Minnesota http://ncroc.coafes.umn.edu/. Great outfit. Only Zone 3 testing center in lower 48.

Most excited about the Canadian honeyberries aka Haskap aka Blueberries of the Prairie that I tasted and had to order from her. Reading this thread have to add to my order the Crimson Passion Cherry: Dark red fruit; flesh more firm than other cultivars. Excellent for fresh eating. High sugar content up to 22 Brix. Fruit weighs about 6 gram. Lowest suckering of all the dwarf sour cherries. Grows to about 5.5 ft. Not as vigorous as Carmine Jewel. Released in March 2011 for export to the USA. Shipped plants are minimum 6" tall. for October 2011 Shipping.

Don't drink wine, actually just like to watch things grow, but thinking I better learn to make jam in the next three or four years ;-)

Jeff
New Brighton, MN

Here is a link that might be useful: Crimson Passion Cherry order


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I once considered getting Carmine Jewel, but I'm completely satisfied with my Evans and Meteor cherry trees. Maybe it's just my climate, but both of them are only about 7 feet tall.
Easy to pick and loaded with beautiful cherries. I don't believe we've hit -40 since I planted them, but from what I've read, both will survive that winter temp.

The cherries are great when left on the tree to ripen up fully...not only do we enjoy them in pies but they are very good dried.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I planted six of these this spring. None of them grew very much this year, we've had severe drought and extraordinary heat all summer, they however are nice and green and the trunks have thickened. My 2nd year blueberries didn't grow much this year either. Water just took care of heat stress, not so much for growing. My sweet cherries outright died this summer despite all efforts to keep them alive.

I'll be interested to try the Carmine jewels when they bare.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Hi,

1. in zone 6 (northeast), how larger will P. cerasus cv.'North Star' get: I think the advertised 6 to 8 feet is not true - that we're talking more 12 x 12 or 10 x 10, after a while - which is fine, but I just want to know the actual true size.

2. I have 'North Star' on P. mahaleb rootstock. My soil is moist and black - what would happen if I bury the graft-union: would the scion above the graft likely put out roots, or rot instead. I figure that since both 'North Star' and P. mahaleb are dwarf trees, why not have the scion on it's own roots, that there is no risk of potential graft-rejection, or a size mismatch between rootstock and scion; also, P. mahaleb is not good with moist, black soil - somewhat disease-prune - BUT maybe P. cerasus (the scion) would be worse???

I would pour sand in the hole around the rootstock and periodically introduce rooting hormone.

3. What is another good recommendation for a sour cherry (other then 'North Star' and the 'Carmine Jewel' hybrid cherry)? I have room for another dwarf sour cherry - would you recommend P. cerasus cv. 'Evens/Bali' or another dwarf sour cherry? Or is 'North Star' and 'Carmine Jewel' enough that another would not add much?

4. What is the advantage of growing native Prunus pennsylvanica (pin cherry; fire cherry), if you are in a zone where sour cherries and bush 'cherries' are suited for cultivation?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I don't see any point in growing pin cherries if you can grow sour and bush cherries. As for Evans/Bali, I think you won't find it any different than North Star, except a bit hardier. Something that might be of interest to you though is that new line of sour cherries bred and released in 2004-2006 by the University of Saskatchewan. Hardier and higher sugar content than other sour cherries, they grow as upright 6-8 foot bushes. These were only available in Canada over the past few years, but I think they are now becoming available in the U.S., but you'll likely have to do some searching for a suppier. I can't figure out how to post a link, so here's the web address, you'll have to cut and paste:
http://www.fruit.usask.ca/dwarfsourcherries.html


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

This thread is very long and I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the bush cherries seem attractive to jackrabbits. I have 4 young bush cherries (Carmine Jewel and 3 from the new Romance series) and I see a rabbit paid a visit to my suburban backyard last night and hopped around the yard inspecting all the bushes. Seems it only was interested in the bush cherries (plus a minor nibble on a saskatoon). Minor damage, but I just spent the past hour wrapping chickenwire and whatever other stuff I could dig out of the shed to try to discourage Mr. Bunny if he comes back tonight. Next fall I'll rig up some sturdier winter protection.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

My sister and I planted Carmine Jewel Cherries at least 5 years ago. Hers is in Utah, zone 4 or 5 I guess. I am in Wyoming zone 3. Both shrubs are healthy and about the same size but neither has ever bloomed.

The Utah one is on the East side of a privacy fence in quite a bit of shade. The Wyoming one is in full sun in a kind of exposed location at the top of a slope. My shrub looks very similar to my sister's in size and shape and but no blooms yet on either one! Mine has been through some minus 25 degree temperatures.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

It seems odd to me that your plants aren't getting any flowers after 5 or more years. I planted one, about 1.5 or 2 feet tall, in May 2011, and here it is one year later in May 2012. Not the greatest photo of flowers since it was mostly still in bud, but you can see some open flowers and there are 50-100 buds yet to open. Despite it being young and getting hit by marble-size hail this summer, it still produced about a half-dozen ripe cherries. This plant has taken temperatures as cold as you describe. Were yours tiny when you planted them and are now getting to the size of the one in the photo below? Or are they bigger plants that are for some reason stubborn to flower?

Photobucket


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Yes,..odd I would say after 5 years, unless it was a tiny plug when you put it in, then I would say give it another year or so.

Or,.. lots of time US nurseries graft them to another rootstock, this could delay flowering.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

The Bali cherry is supposed to produce an insane amount of fruit once mature. Bill McKentley from St Lawrence told me that his produce more fruit in relation to its size than any other fruit. He also told me that they are sweet enough to eat off of the bush. Northstar are not that sweet and won't produce nearly as many cherries. I can't vouch for flavor on either, but Bill said that they all love to munch the Balis off of the bush. Combining Bali and a Romance cherry into jam might be the best of both worlds. Tons of fruit from the Bali with some flavor from the Romance. I have one of each growing, but they are still young. I'll be interested to see if they bloom. If not by the third year, I'll probably pull it. Space is too limited for slackers.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

OK brother, then you can tell Bill McKentley from St Lawrence not to steal names, tell him that Bali is Evans Cherry, ...then we all know what everybody is talking about.

Evans is still the best in the overall production and size, most vigorous.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

Evans... Bali...I've never understood why it wasn't called the "Borward" cherry since it had been growing at her place for 53 years before it was "discovered" by Evans. Or maybe the "Edmonton" cherry?

I tend to think that once the new bush cherries from the U of Saskatchewan breeding program get better known that they will eclipe the Evans cherry in popularity. I think U of Saskatchewan's 40 years of dedicated cherry breeding work is likely to produce better varieties than a random extra-hardy variety that turned up in an Edmonton-area garden. I guess time will tell.

I did a side-by-side taste test last summer of Evans vs Cupid (a Sask. bush cherry) and I prefered the Cupid. Taste is unique though, and the Evans cherry is still the hardiest and best tree cherry (as opposed to the bush form of the Saskatchewan cherries). They are all good though, the more the merrier!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

unfortunately our evans died back a couple seasons back,
but has been growing strong since and hopefully will be fruiting again this season

best fresh eating cherry was the lutowka
(talk about name stealing, it is sometimes called 'rose cherry')
this one i will try air-layering this year

i like the carmine jewel because it has the least breeding,
and is probably off the boat, the same as its russian parents

nankings were very sweet and plentiful this year,
great for processing (mixed nanking juice with sandcherries and tart cherries for an excellent spread)


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

What about meteor sour cherry. They can go down to -50 F. mine did very well but only grew on its terminal bud. All other buds produced flowers. I finally ended up with branchless twigs up to 3 feet long with only a few leaves at the end and the tree starved to death. Otherwise the tree was very productive with good cherries.

Is the U of S cherry any better

Thanks for your input.

This is were my U of S cherry trees will reside. Click link

Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/5864651368775846321?banner=pwa&authkey=CI763rvAj8eLAg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

About 20 years ago I planted a sour cherry that was either a Meteor, North Star or Montmorency. They say the mind goes first, but it was one of those, and I think they are all pretty similar. Anyway, it was definitely not hardy to -50F (-46C). It did okay for a few years, produced a few cherries one year, then completely died one winter, with minimum temps more like -35F to -40F (-37 to -40C). I subsequently grew Evans (Bali) and it did much better but eventually winterkilled severely so I removed it about 10 years ago. Since 2010 I have been growing another Evans in the same location as the original Meteor, and so far it has survived to the tip each winter and provided some fruit in 2011 and 2012. I think the Evans cherry is most likely a hardy seedling of Meteor/Montmorency/North Star.

Here in zone 3, the U of S bush cherries are supposed to be hardier than Evans, and much hardier than meteor. I recently (2011) planted 4 varieties of U of S bush cherries, plus an Evans tree cherry (2010). This past winter all survived to their tips so I can't really say if there is a difference in hardiness. But of the U of S cherries, my impression is that the Carmine Jewel was the least hardy, in terms of holding onto many leaves during last fall's early freeze, then leafing slightly slower this spring. Of the other varieties I'm growing (Cupid, Juliet and Romeo), so far I'm most impressed with Cupid, but all bushes are young, planted in spring 2011 (now 4' or 5' tall).


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I have an Evans about 3 ft tall, (1) Northstar 6.5 ft, and (6) Carmine Jewel about 2.5 ft each. The Northstar has been gradually blossoming this year. I was surprised that they didn't all open at the same time.

I know from last year, the bugs and the birds like these cherries. I probably will just let the birds take them this year. Hopefully, 2 years from now, they won't be able to eat the whole crop when all 8 are producing. That's when I'll want to spray for bugs I guess. What are you cherry growers doing for a bug spraying program?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I live much farther south where heat is close to being a problem. The insects are in a good balance with few outbreaks. Are these cherry trees worth the much higher price than a montmorency or a northstar, I can grow both. The meteor is so slow growing that I will be dead before a replacement will fruit in quantity.

As for birds, they much prefer mulberries over cherries if they will grow that far north. I am also going to guess that your day light might be around 20+ hours. per day.

Can you plant trap plants and poison them so the insects don't eat your cherries. click below to see what I grow in my garden. much will live up their but some wont

I still need another cherry tree or two

Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/5864651368775846321?banner=pwa&authkey=CI763rvAj8eLAg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Dwarf Cherry Tree

I've encountered no problems with bugs here in central Alberta, but birds do seem to have an appetite for my cherries. Bird netting seems the best solution to me, and it's much easier to wrap a mature 6' to 8' bush, then a mature 15' tree.


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