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Snow is here so lets talk about roses :)

Well the snow finally came and stopped any yard work that I had to finish. Also put an end to the job I had, hopefully for just a short time, so I am sitting at home thinking about next year.

This year I got bitten by the rose bug and even after many applications of 'after bite' the itch is still there. I have spent the past few months researching the net, asking questions on the rose forums and conversing with lots of you fine folks to come up with 'the list'. This 'list' I am calling the back bone of my rose gardens and will be made up of Antique or OGR roses (some classes are not considered either but I am not splitting hairs). The modern roses I have and those ordered will be planted to fit in with these.

While I understand that a lot of you can't grow some of these classes I would love to hear any comments, the good and the bad, you would have on any of these. I am not opposed to making last minute changes or additions even though I think this is 'IT'.

The backbone list:

Edits in Brackets with asterisk

Rugosa - Rosaraie de l'Hay, Rugelda, Blanc Double de Coubert
Hybrid musk - Penelope, Skyrocket [Wilhelm]
Hybrid Moyessi - Nevada
(Hybrid Foetida - Harrison's Yellow *removed from order, can obtain locally, yay!*)
Gallica - Tuscany Superb, Duchesse de Montebello
Setigera - Erinnerung an Brod
Damask (Portland) - Rose de Rescht, Comte de Chambord
Hybrid Spinosissima - Stanwell Perpetual
Bourbon - Boule de Neige, Louis Odier, Reine Victoria, Mme. Isaac Pereire
Alba - Maiden's Blush, Belle Amour, Celestial
Moss - Marie de Blois, Deuil de Paul Fontaine
Hybrid Perpetual - Reine des Violettes, General jack
Centifolia - The Bishop
Floribunda - Gruss an Aachen
Noisette - Mme Alfred Carriere

And last, but not least, is the unplanted moderns (a few of these are on order):

HT - Sunny Daze, Belami, Folklore, Oklahoma
Floribunada - Marina, Tournament of Roses, Iceberg
Grandiflora - Dream Come True, (Golden Celebration *informed today it was sold out to be replaced with 'Double Delight'*)
Shrub - Double Knockout, Folksinger, Emily Carr
Climber - John Davis

So if you have time and would like to comment it would be great. I would even like to hear any ideas on which you would plant together.

Thanks for helping kill the early winter blues and have a great day.

SCG

This post was edited by SouthCountryGuy on Thu, Nov 7, 13 at 1:26

Comments (83)

  • northspruce
    9 years ago

    I plant mine as soon as they're received. I know some people pot them up but I plant them where they're going to stay. I always request the latest shipping possible - for Pickering's this is May Long weekend. The canes usually arrive with some pale growing shoots already sprouting. I just plant them like that and usually the shoots burn or freeze a bit (or die right off) but the canes will produce stronger ones. You can always cover them if hard frost is forecast.

    Incidentally, I didn't end up placing a rose order this year and I'm glad I didn't. I still have snow drifts in my front yard and there's no way I'll have beds prepared for May Long weekend!

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I am curious to know whether or not your buying a potted or bare root rose.

    I forgot about this thread and thanks for bringing it back up.

    I got my pickering order on April 7 and planted it that day and awaiting my order from palatine that should arrive on tuesday. YAY!

    Donaldvancouver I got skunked on ghislaine and would like to take you up on your offer. I can be reached at filimek at me dot com ...thanks again.

    Now would spring hurry up I am anxious to see first blooms (and growth!)

    SCG

  • true_blue
    9 years ago

    SCG, I was wondering how did your Reine des Violettes did this year, or did the deer munch it up ;-)

    I'm sort of thinking of getting it.

    From what I've read it needs to be fed regularly (sort of a prima donna) and it will have a 2nd flush only in it's 3rd year.

    DId you grow it in part shade? How big it grew? Anything you liked, disliked so far.

    What about General Jack? It was a very popular rose, in late 19th century.

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ahhhh,

    Reine des VIolettes had a pretty much prime spot in my yard (no deer) and tossed out huge arms....while blooms where sparse , but steady, growth was vigourous. I do love the blooms and the scent is ahhhhhh to me.I think it tossed out 5-6 foot canes this year. It is covered in buds which I covered for the bad weather so I may be able to get photos for you.....

    First year experience is positive. Oh yeah, I do, feed my plants on a regular basis.

    General Jack never broke dormancy, among a company of others from that place....sigh... wish I could find it again...well in Canada.

    SCG

  • true_blue
    9 years ago

    Sorry to hear about General Jack. I was intrigued by it. When I was reading about HPs, there was half page of quotes about it. Apparently it was one of the top flowers grown by the flower trade. You know the good old times when roses where fragrant? I sincerely hope that Pickering gets back on their feet and offer their rare roses again. I always wondered why it fell out of fashion...

    Good to hear your Reine is having a 2nd flush. I assume it's in full sun?

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    true-blue

    Sorry I missed this over a month ago.

    I, too, am disappointed on the few I lost. Of course, they were ones I REALLY wanted.

    Regarding RdV, since my last post it has tossed out a few more canes and put on a lot of growth. It is taking on more of a low rambler habit, not really what I wanted for the placement I chose. I was expecting more of a tall arching habit as it is now 10' tip to tip along the ground. I think next year I will have to train it. Regarding sun exposure, yes it would be considered to be in full sun.

    SCG

  • true_blue
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the update SCG and no fret with missing my post!

    I understand what you say about the tall arching habit, a trait of albas btw, but if RdV is cane hardy, you can try training it as a pillar or a fountain. The fact that it is thornless makes it good candidate for this type of treatment, plus you'll get more blooms that way :-)

    - Bob

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    True-blue - I also have to mention that RvD was one of 4 out of all my roses that didn't get defoliated by the deer. It also bloomed, on what it had, consistently in flushes through the summer. I hope it grows into the tall arching habit or it will need to be moved. I think you miss typed as RdV is a Hybrid Perpetual, probably like me trying to multitask and type. :)

    SCG

  • true_blue
    9 years ago

    SCG sorry missed your post. My turn I guess :-)

    What I meant was that Albas have the tendency to have the growth you desire not the HPs. Tried to cram to much info in the same sentence!

    Maybe the deer didn't like the peppery taste of the leaves.
    Anyway it seems like a fantastic rose, I'm happy you're enjoying it.

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Haha no worries.

    You might be a bit right on taste. Looking out in the yard some classes got nibbled (heavily) others munched on and the rest were the full meal deal. The alba's and hybrid musks were one class that got heavily nibbled on, rugosa's and HP's munched while the bourbons and Explorer roses they cleaned the plate.

    I do have high hopes for RdV. i am really looking forward to next spring........

    SCG

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    SCG any sign of spring at your end? How is your RdV?
    Here is still freezing cold and still a lot of snow here and there.

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yeah been really nice here for a while. We had a very mild winter as I was able to rake my lawn on Feb 14 and the frost has been out of the ground for over a month. Unfortunately before we got all the good snow cover we got one day of -29 and all my young roses took a big hit. A majority of them died back to the ground, RdV was no exception. I am sure the late pruning by the deer was an issue with the plants using energy to rebuild instead of storing for winter. Those that were hit by the deer definitely show more cane dieback. If the roses come back from what is left I think I will lose only 2 but I am a little skeptical.

    Today the morning is crisp (-4) with a predicted high of +15

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Sorry to hear your misadventures with the weather & deer. I don't know if it applies to you, but take this advice with some grain of salt: Some say let the don't dead head the roses after the 2nd flush, so they know that it is time for them to rest. Also some cut any new "late" growth. As it won't have anytime to harden off.....

    I finally ordered RdV from Palatines. Will get it late April. Mine will be in less than ideal spot....


  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I have heard that too, unfortunately most of these roses didn't have a first flush... Too many old wifes tales to know what to do.... an elderly lady here that considers herself a rosarian (she will tell you and you don't even have to ask :) she has never in her life had less than 3 roses and usually upwards of 5) says to cut them down between 8" and 12" from the ground the third weekend in September to guarantee they will over winter.


    I will also add that the roses that did not fair as well also didn't start as well. It is seems very important in this climate to get nice healthy bare roots.


    I am noticing across multiple species that it is all about cane size. If they didn't die back to the ground the place where they are still green is (measured) within half a millimetre the same diameter.


    This year I am going to do something I never thought I would and do more winter protecting and I am going to do my best to encourage cane growth.


    The roses that were hardy to the tip in my yard this year were just few: Mislabeled Alba we think Sauveleons, Alba Semi-plena (yay!), Morden Ruby, (mislabeled, I think) Morden Blush, Capt. Samuel Holland and last but not least John Davis. Even my rugosa's took a hit but they all started very slow.


    SCG

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    The cutting down is a HT reflex probably.

    The first 2-3 year are really important. I don't know how my roses have fared as they are more or less still under the snow.

    I checked your rose list again, wow so many great roses. Many if not most of the OGRs should be hardy once established, a couple of more years and you'll be fine :-)

    In my neck of woods, John Davis has had no die back what so ever. Even though we had the coldest February ever. I'm not so sure of semi-plena, I can see some brown canes, especially the wimpy ones. We'll see.


  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I am quite concerned about all the ones that died to the ground. The ones that had green canes are budding....I am impatient right now though.

    I should update my list as they were out of some and things got switched around....Stanwell perpetual is looking like it might have life too..

    SCG

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Well it depends which ones you are talking about?
    I have several tender roses and each year, I think their toast, but soon after I see them pumping up canes. If they managed this year, I will stop worrying about them. I'm sure Stanwell is fine.....


  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yeah, Stanwell is fine as he is budding...the others are worrisome...but there is hope as there is green albeit not much.

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    With roses being out of stock, ones that didn't come out of dormancy, etc etc here is what is in my garden now. I don't plan on any new additions this year and canceled any orders. BUT being an addict I know I will get something LOL


    Morden Sunrise

    Rose de Recht

    Madame Alfred Carriere

    Gruss an Aachen (one can wonder that graft looks dead now)

    Reine Des Violettes

    Easy does it (not looking good)

    Penelope

    Felicia (graft looks dead, frost heaved it exposing graft)

    Louis Odier

    Skyrocket

    Alba mislabeled (thining sauveleons)

    Morden Blush (think mislabel)

    Capt. Samual Holland

    Morden Ruby

    Campfire

    Dutchess de Montebello

    Rugelda

    Reine Victoria (? on life)

    Emily Carr

    Comte de Chambord

    Monte Blanc

    Semi Plena

    John Davis

    Hot Cocoa

    Stanwell Perpetual

    Tuscany Superb

    Double Delight (looks doubly dead at graft)

    Roseraie De l'Hay (Was a tiny one cane wonder that looks like it made it)

    Dr Eckner

    Felicite et Perpetue

    Mme legras de St. Germain

    Belle Amour

    Erinnerung de Brod


    Lets pray they all make it :)


    SCG


  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    I have Felicia and it each year it looks dead and it sprouts all over the place.
    Don't you plant the bud union of the "tender" rose 4-6" below soil level?
    My HTs and miniatures somewhat survive this treatment.


  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yes, I did plant it that low, or thought I did....it was heaved and was only a couple inches below.


  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Felicia should be fine. Mine is very ratty looking right now, still half bound in ice. Traditionally only 1' is alive the rest is dead even though under 6' of snow. This year I did a half attempted by putting some burlap around it will see if any cane survived.

    My Sweet Chariot's just came out of the ice. What I worry about is that they are planted in a raised bed, albeit bud union 6" bellow. in the coldest part of the garden (no sun). Lots of Green stems. Looks alive and kicking.

    Many rose play possum at this time of the year. Just wait a couple of weeks until everything is leafing and you'll be surprised how many of them, if not most of them are alive...


  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Btw sorry to see you didn't get Ghislaine. I would be curious to see how it will survive in zone 4. They grow one in the Montreal Botanical Gardens. I have to check it out.
    There is thread going on Antique Rose Garden about this rose...


  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yeah, was disappointing having to cancel that order. Ghislaine is one I really, really want...maybe next year.

    I forgot to add 'Goldfinch' to the list....unfortunately it doesn't look good either but it was own root so we will see.

    I pruned all the dead wood off the roses which caused me a lot of anxiety... almost nothing left and I was very conservative leaving anything I thought had the slightest chance. Most of the canes were black and often the bark was falling off....grrrr.... I waited till other roses were budding as my cue.......

    Unfortunately I dug down to the graft of Felicia and it didn't look good....

    Looking forward to a few of these to prove my under lying fear wrong....

    SCG



  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Felicia lives!!! So far my no shows are 'Gruss an Achen', 'Reine Victoria' and 'double delight' all were weak last year. I really hope Gruss pulls through... John Davis wins the cane hardy battle exponentially.

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    SCG does MAC die to the ground each year or do you have any canes left?
    How big does it become at the end of season? How does it flower?

    How are your life support roses doing?

    I've been amazed by Felicia. Last fall on whim I vaguely covered it's canes with a ratty burlap.
    It is in a protect section of the garden, which never sees sun in the winter and gets covered with all the snow from the patio. so basically under 5' of snow give or take. 30" of cane survived.


  • wayne
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    SCG, If I remember the picture correctly, your Morden Blush looked like Marshall's Peace Garden Rose, I have both. It is a sport of Morden Blush.

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    True_blue MAC was new to my gardens last year and it had about 7' long canes in the fall and bloomed pretty well for the summer. I would not have considered it a 'strong' barefoot when I planted it. It died back to the ground this winter but so did EVERYTHING. We had another remarkably mild winter with lots and lots of freeze thaws. The roses that did have canes in February started to bud then and froze. 'John Davis' was the only rose that made it totally cane hardy.

    Just when I was about to give up on 3 roses 'Double Delight' shocked me with about 1" of growth from the graft. I had actually purchased a replacement yesterday and was going to replant when I noticed it....I quickly ran back to town and swapped it out of 'Dream Come True' another rose not OGR style that I really like. 'Felicia' now has a pile of buds from the graft and I am thrilled. 'Reine Victoria' and 'Gruss an Achen' are the only two that have yet to show life. From talking with folks at the nursery I am quite lucky to have potentially lost as few as I did.

    Wayne, I will post pics when it blooms this year to compare again. I know the nursery it was purchased from and they don't carry 'Marshall's Peace Garden Rose' nor does the nursery they purchase from so it will be interesting to see this year.

    Hope everyone is have good rose growth!!!


    SCG

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    This is the damage.....


    To my delight 'Double Delight'


    And 'Felicia'


    Yes, I did dig down to expose the grafts.....I had to know...


    SCG


  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Thanks SCG for the report.
    I'm happy that they are mostly back on track. Roses are quite resilient. I have a tender HT and each year I think its goner, it surprises me with new buds.
    I wonder, what saved the rose canes this year was maybe the constant deep freeze we had.
    And I'm thankful I didn't prune Felicia's brownish branches. They were all alive:


  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Our winter was a really weird one. We had a hard frost in early Sept, then it stayed warm until November when it plummeted to -28 after that it never got below -20 again and most days the highs were above freezing. I wonder if the fast deep freeze really had a big impact.

    I wish my canes on 'Felicia' would have looked that good. Mine were pure black with bark peeling off :(


  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Wow, that's brutal!

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    SCG, how are your roses doing? Did they all survive?

    BTW, Is Mme. LeGras cane hardy for you?

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I lost Reine Victoria and Gruss an Aachen. The rest are doing great. Reine des Violettes is as big as it was at the end of last year and starting to bud. Mme. LeGras was new last year and would be a bad year to judge cane hardiness by.

    On my phone and hate typing on it so will update, maybe even with pics, later.

  • true_blue
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Sorry to here about RV and GaA. Then Felicia survived; That's a tough little rose!

    Do you mean RdV didn't lose any canes or did it just grew back all it lost?


  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Yes Felicia is a tough one, she grew some wonderfully tall canes that were loaded with buds then a freak wind storm came in and snapped them off at the union. I have since staked the others and buried the union again.

    RdV is quite vigorous, albeit a slow starter, and is nearly the same size it was last fall and so far, knock on wood, has a better growth habit.....wasn't quite happy with the sprawling ground crawling growth last year.

    Lets hope for a less harsh winter this year.

    SCG

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Thanks for the update SCG, my Felicia is in fool bloom now, though battered with the rain....


  • FrozeBudd_z3/4
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Photo showing my 'John Davis' that has reached considerable size, though reduced from the 11 ft it had previously topped out at ... as good as it might appear, it's not quite as healthy or full as it had been, maybe a deep dressing of compost is needed after flowering.



  • ostrich
    8 years ago

    twrosz, your John Davis is spectacular! Thank you for sharing the photo. I am hopeful that mine will do as well as yours too - I planted it last year and already, it has been an amazing grower and is starting to bloom too! The foliage is so clean and healthy, and it just keeps on climbing up my trellis - I love this rose already!!! I want to thank you guys here as you're the ones who encouraged me to plant it last year. I am so glad that I listened! Thanks.

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    twrosz impressive JD. When I got mine, I try controlling mine's exuberant growth by somewhat pegging it along side the short fence behind it.

    You mentioned a 2nd flush. Is it a couple of blooms like most explorers?



  • weeper_11
    8 years ago

    It does indeed look fantastic! Looks like something from a warmer zone, great job.

  • VStapes (z3 Mb)
    8 years ago

    Wow, beautiful twrosz! I just planted a JD. It was covered in buds when I bought it and is full of blooms now. I love it but was regretting my choice and wishing I had picked a more guaranteed climber. I'm going to run out and get a trellis for sure now! You're given me hope LOL. Do you have yours tied up?

    I got the new Canada Blooms and Olds College too ... I'll post some pics once I upload them from my camera.

  • prairie_northrose (3b north of Calgary AB, Canada)
    8 years ago

    Stunning blooms! I noticed Canada Blooms in the nurseries a few times, its scent was lovely.

  • FrozeBudd_z3/4
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    True_blue, 'John Davis' will bloom again on new wood, though the second "flush" generally isn't very significant. In order to climb, this rose NEEDS deeply dug fertile soil and feeding, otherwise you'll just end up with a shrub, but an attractive one at that. 'JD' can take zone 3 cold, but the biggest challenge is dealing with winter desiccation drying up the stems. Alberta (central Alberta included) will at times experience amazingly BALMY winter temps and the reflected heat from buildings will only further intensify and desiccate this rose. So, I water deeply prior to freeze up and attempt to lean 'JD' away from the house ... it's a challenge to get almost any rose to climb in our cold prairie climate.

    'Olds Collage Rose' looks especially nice, thanks for posting vstapes :)

  • SouthCountryGuy Zone 4b-5 SE BC
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Very nice pics. My JD is just finishing the spring, wonderful flush

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Thanks Twrosz. That's what I suspected. Mine is in a deep and fertile
    soil, but it probably doesn't receive as much as sun it needs for a 2nd
    flush, being in part shade. Never had problems with desiccation, mine is
    completely buried under snow, as I peg it to the fence to curb its
    growth.

    Does it ever set hips?


  • FrozeBudd_z3/4
    8 years ago

    True_blue ... yes, 'JD' does set a small sprinkling of very small bright orange hips.

  • true_blue
    8 years ago

    Thanks twrosz. Then I won't dead head :-)


  • FrozeBudd_z3/4
    8 years ago

    Yes, I certainly wouldn't bother deadheading considering just how very hips are set.