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Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Posted by troman1973 z4A (My Page) on
Wed, Dec 12, 07 at 19:23

I think this topic may have been talked about before, but I was putting a order in with Gurney's tonight to get a Carmine Jewel Cherry tree and the guy kind of scared me off from purchasing it. I know it is a sour cherry tree, but according to the magazine the flavor beats the taste of sweet cherry trees. Not sure how this is possible. I know it originated in Canada and is a hardy tree, but I am wondering if anyone has grown or tasted this tree? I ended up ordering something else and not sure if I made the right choice. I have wanted to try a cherry tree, but I dont want one that tastes bad. I know it takes a long time to get cherries and I dont want to waste my time if it is not good. Also alot of the chokecherry trees in my area have the black knot disease. Is this something that will hurt this type of cherry tree?? I am looking for any info on this tree and would appreciate any help, I have gotten good help here before!!

Thanks


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I planted one this fall, so I am also interested in hearing what others know about it. I also have wild chokecherry trees that are prone to getting black knot in the bush around our acreage.

With the sale price at the local nursery and the gift certificate my kids gave me for mother's day, 3 different cherry trees cost me just over $10. I couldn't pass that up. It just took me a while to figure out where to plant them. I ended up putting each of them in the center of a flowerbed.

Brenda


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I don't have the tree in question but if it's like the other hardy prairie sour cherries, yes the cherries are sour but they do sweeten up quite a bit if allowed to ripen on the tree for a while.

I read somewhere that sour cherries are used in liquors, pies, preserves as they have better flavor than sweet cherries. I have a cherry tree called 'Rose' cherry, actually it's more like a large shrub. It's shown good hardiness and the one winter it did winterkill, it rebounded back pretty quick. It bloomed after about 4 years, and that was starting from a 5 inch high cutting.

I know this information doesn't really pertain to the Carmine Jewel type but I thought I would offer my two cents as perhaps all the prairie sour cherries share similar characteristics. Not sure about the black knot thing though.

Glen


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Your missing out if you don't give these a try. I worked at the U of Saskatchewan here in Saskatoon and every now and then the Horticulture people let us pick fruit to take home. It was a real treat to walk through the cherry planting and eat them fresh off the bush. Slightly tart but very tasty and we have made our own pie but find them a little too strong to use in jam or jelly. We were using a mixed lot so not just Carmine Jewel. The Carmine Jewel is especially good for a high antioxidant (dark red) content for juice. There are folks here from Saskatoon who are using it in making ice cream. The whole group from the U of S are pretty tasty but you would need to find the one that suits your growing conditions well.
Check out the information on the DNA site below. Or read about them on the University of Saskatchewan web site.
http://www.usask.ca/agriculture/plantsci/dom_fruit/

Here is a link that might be useful: DNA Gardens


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

cmmwiebe

Thanks for the link, some very interesting info on their site.

But, I could find no info on how to order. Do they sell & ship to the public??

There was a link for Prices but it did not work.

cathy


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

You can Email them, go to Catalogue, scroll down all the way.
Konrad


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I have a Carmen Jewel in my back yard and love it. I'm training it to be a tree and it is now a little over 7 ft. tall. The cherries seem to get sweeter each year especially if you leave them on to get super ripe. My neighbours are jam makers and fight over the berries. My one pruned "bush"/tree gives more than 3 ice cream buckets each year - great jelly and syrup / although the maintenance man at the condo prefers to eat them off the tree as fruit.

Fern


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Carmine Jewel is a particularly good choice for regions experiencing very cold winters, but should not be restricted to those.

CJ, introduced around 1998, is one of a group of six 'SK' (University of Saskatchewan) cherries (the rest introduced in 2006). These are ultra-hardy, to climate zone 2, and produce high-quality fruit. As they become better known, they will surely be in great demand.

Strictly speaking, because their parents, used in the decades-long breeding program, were all 'sour' cherries (better known as 'tart' cherries in the USA) the SK's, including Carmine Jewel, are called 'sour/tart' cherries; but this is misleading with regard to the experience you will have in eating them, raw or processed. They are delicious. The standard pie cherry for a very long time has been the Montmorency, a 'sour/tart' cherry with a brix number of 12 (brix number is % sugar). Carmine Jewel has a brix of 17. Other SK cherries are even sweeter, with Juliet at 20 brix and Romeo at 22 brix, for example; the latter two, as well as the Crimson Passion and the Cupid all have sugar contents comparable to Bing 'sweet' cherries, and to harvest grapes. But 'sour/tart' cherries have much, much more cherry flavour than 'sweet' cherries and their citric acid component makes them even more interesting/desirable to consume. Some find them excellent right off the tree, but they also make superb pies, jams, juices, and wines.

'SK' cherry trees are highly productive dwarfs, growing to seven feet in height and four feet in width, allowing them to be spaced five feet apart from each other (although Crimson Passion is a smaller, less vigorous tree than the others). Carmine Jewel is considered to also have ornamental value and can even be planted as a hedge with closer spacing if desired. All the 'SK' cherries are self-fruitful, meaning that they do not require a second tree for cross-pollination. Truly, they are a horticultural breakthrough.

Carmine Jewel is dark red in skin and flesh.

Here is a link that might be useful: Prairie-Hardy Cherries


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Any input on the black knot concern? I have three baby Carmen Jewel bushes, the oldest 2 years old. I haven't seen any black knot on them so far. No cherries, either.
Northwoodswis4


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

OK...after several years now, how is Carmen Jewel making out for you, ..would love to see some pictures.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Still no cherries in 2012. We had drought, the bushes survived with a few waterings, though the foliage was yellower than the rest of the garden. I am hoping for at least a taste in 2013. Northwoodswis


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

A article out of the U of S by Bob Bors states that "the trees show excellent resistance to black knot, but a few cases of bacterial canker have been noted."

So, sounds pretty good, but it is probably possible for them to get it.

If you are worried about Crimson Jewel being too sour, why not get Crimson Passion or Juliet? They are supposed to be sweeter(though still tart)


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

My Carmine Jewell is FINALLY blooming this year - after being in the ground for 6 years. This is the first winter I did *not* winter prune ... and lo and behold I have flowers all over the tips of the branches! (on last summer's new wood) I'm so excited!

Going forward, I will only summer prune after harvesting the ripe cherries, giving the shrub a chance to put on new growth before going into winter.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Hello newbie and welcome!
Great to hear your tree is flowering,..hopefully it sets fruits, when cherries are red, let them on the tree at least another week, you might need to net it, all pie cherries can hang on the tree allot longer then sweet cherries,.. making them allot better!
Then show us a picture!

When you look at the very top, this is a cold zone thread,..our cherries need about another 2 month until they flower.

In your profile, we encourage that you fill in the climate zone, looks like you're way up,...around zone 5 or 6? Then we can understand better from what we're dealing with.

My gosh..it's been 7 years since the first post,....please, everybody report back on how things are going for you.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I didn't plant any U of S cherries until May 2011, so they've had 3 growing seasons in the garden now, and 2014 will be #4. They have flowered every year, including the year I planted them, but fruit set has been very minor, with just a few cherries produced in each of the last 2 years, mostly from the Cupid plant. Here they are on October 23, 2013, showing some slight difference in turning colour for the fall (Juliet is furthest along). From left to right, it's Romeo, Juliet, Cupid, Carmine Jewel. They are about 5 feet tall and 3 feet across, I think the photo makes them look smaller for whatever reason. The past two years they reached full bloom around May 20-30. Maybe they'll start producing well this year?.. hope so. That's a blackberry plant in the background along the fence, and Swiss chard and carrots growing behind the Carmine Jewel.
 photo Oct2313UofSaskCherries.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Don, Are you fertilizing your Carmine Jewels? If so, what type and timing are you using?

I have 6 CJs, and mine haven't had quite as much growth as yours. Mine we also planted in 2011, but were VERY tiny. They are nice and full like yours, but just not as large.

Do you think that you will have to spray and cover them to get a pickable crop? (Birds and Bugs)


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Northernmn, I fertilized them when I first planted them, but not since then. I blame the fertilizer in year 1 with an infestation of aphids on the new growth. Also, the cherries are one of my last bushes/trees to drop their leaves in the fall and I think fertilizer would encourage them to be even later. The photo above was taken October 23, we're running the risk of some pretty hard freezes by then.

I suspect the main reason mine are ahead of yours is size at planting time. Mine were mail order and were shipped to the downtown bus station. When I arrived I was shocked to find they were in 4 seperate pots, five gallons each! Made for an interesting walk out to the parking lot. Here's a pic of the Carmine Jewel on May 21, 2011, about 2 weeks after they arrived.
 photo May2111cherrycarminejewel.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

As for pests, I have grown other sour cherries (Evans/Bali, and I think Meteor) in the past and they were never bothered by bugs, without ever spraying. I do currently have an Evans planted beside a row of saskatoons, and the robins love eating the saskatoons and picked a few cherries too in 2012. Last year I covered the young tree with bird netting and ended up catching a bird that I think just wanted to use the tree as a perch. Managed to cut it free without it being hurt, but decided I didn't want to trap birds so removed the nettng. I didn't pick the cherries for several more weeks, and didn't appear to lose any to the birds. So, the short answer, I don't think netting is needed.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I have a Carmine Jewel that is over 10 years now, voles will chew the bark, deer will eat the tips of branches, robins fight over the fruit and black aphids like the new growth. So I control the ants, that minimizes the aphids. The deer have pruned one side of the tree, if you want all the fruit that is possible have a net or something ready. It only took a couple of years and every offspring that tasted cherry came to feast. My tree produces a good amount of fruit but took 5 or 6 years to start and seems to handle some frost when it is flowering.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Don, You are correct about the size difference at planting time. Mine were in little 2.5" pots and the plants were about 8" tall. They are about 30" to 34" tall now and last year they put on about 15" of new growth. Mine a certainly are shaped like yours, but about 1 year behind.

I'm hoping to get my 1st CJ blossoms this year. I have a Northstar that has been feeding the birds for 2 years now. My Evans hasn't bloomed yet but it is still young as well.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

northernmn, I'm hoping for my first good fruit set this year. Or at least a cup or so of cherries on each variety. As mentioned above, they've all flowered the past 3 years, but fruit set has been poor. Supposedly once they start to set one year, they are loaded with fruit the following year and thereafter. My Evans (planted in 2010) has been a more reliable producer for the past couple years, though still light production. The Evans are nice, but I prefer the Cupid fruit by quite a bit -- much "meatier" and richer in taste.

wayne61, 5 or 6 years to start producing fruit? Ugh, this is only year 4 for me. When you say your Carmine produces "a good amount of fruit", how much fruit are you talking about from one plant?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Don I never kept a good record, I browse every time I mow the grass and the birds start testing before the cherries are ripe. The tree blooms for about 2 weeks if the weather is good so the cherries ripen over time also and as has been stated the longer they stay on the bush the better they get. Last year I bagged about 4lbs. after browsing. The cherries have more pectin when unripe if you are using them for a jam or jelly.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Wayne61,
I can relate. I do the same browsing-thing with my 20 year-old saskatoon bushes. My cherry planting are more recent though, and I've got a lot of anticipation for them. Hope it works out the same in real life as it does in my imagination!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Being that I have had only one tree, I think that fruit set may not be as great as it could be, but then the cherries may not get as large. Lots get chewed up buy various critters, some I eat. I prune a lot in spring to keep branches from rubbing each other, where fruit set has been heavy the tips either die or are weak the next year and I prune them back. The tree is still getting larger but it has some rot I think from when the voles partially girdled the tree. I have been letting sprouts come up to replace it if it dies back.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Well I'm happy to hear that other people have the same problem with the cherries taking their sweet time getting to bearing age/size. This will be my third year with my U of S cherries. Last year 2-3 out of the 5 flowered, the other couple just sort of sat there. I got about 1 cherry set on each shrub ha ha, and the birds got them before they were fully ripe! I'll have to cover them once they really start producing, for sure. That bright red color is just too tempting.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I ended up cutting out the tallest branch on my tree and noticed that at the main branch union on it the bark was included and there is fungus growing in it. So die back from cold and disease perhaps, there are some other shoots that will quickly fill the void. The Evans has about 18" of die back and no blossoms again so I am pulling it out and will try a different cherry.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Now in their fourth summer in my garden, it looks like I may finally get to sample more than just the Evans and Cupid, assuming the hail gods are not angry with me this summer. Juliet is furthest along but has only about 10 cherries. A bit too soon to tell with the Romeo and Cupid, but they do appear to be setting at least some fruit. Evans flowered well but has just finished flowering and I can't yet tell how the set is on it. Carmine Jewel (photo attached) has at least a few good handfulls in the making.
 photo Jun1714CarmineJewel.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

They are looking very good Don, it will be good to hear the taste test results later this summer.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Looking good Don! I don't have it,....have a Crimson Passion
and Cupid, besides some Evans.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I find that things in catalogues have to be interpreted.
Sure Carmine Jewel has more flavour than sweet cherries as sweet cherries have nearly none. The CJ and other so-called SK (University of Saskatchewan) cherries have some advantages over sweet cherries as they are intensely flavoured and coloured with varying nice balances of citric acid and sugar. Thus they have many more uses than sweet cherries: pie, jam, juice, confections, wine. And many are excellent to eat right off the tree. Some have sugar comparable to sweet cherries or harvest grapes. But in most cases the eating experience would be quite different with respect to textures.
CJ is a good all-purpose cherry, but you would not mistake it for a sweet cherry, both in its texture and in its 'brix' number (sweetness) at 17, compared to low 20's for sweet cherries and grapes. Juliet cherry would be a better choice if you want to eat a sweeter cherry off the tree, with a brix of about 20.
So, yes, the SK cherries are more flavourful than sweet cherries, and yes, Carmen Jewel has excellent fruit, with more flavour than sweet cherries, but no, it is not as sweet. I think it is unfair to compare them; apples and oranges perhaps. CJ and all the SK cherries are much hardier than sweet cherries, none of which are remotely suitable for zone 3. They are also hardier than Evans, and are rated for climate zone 2, and so have been reported to be grown in Alaska and parts of Canada's northwest territories. They are completely hardy in my zone 3 in northern Ontario, Canada. I have tasted CJ and Evans, and this year expect to have a few Juliet, some Romeo, and a few Cupid.
The attached picture of my full-size, approximately eight-year old CJ, at its full height of six feet, was taken today, June 17, 2014; loaded with green fruit that will ripen in the first week of August to a lovely burgundy inside and out.

Here is a link that might be useful: University of Saskatchewan Fruit Program


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Thanks ron_l for the detailed observation. For those who have sampled several varieties of the U of S cherries, which are considered the best eating? I had gotten my trees before any of the series had been named, so I don't know what's what. I did pick a few cherries last year, though these had been more pit than flesh.

Of 'Cupid', 'Carmine Jewel', 'Juliet' and 'Romeo', which are the best eating ... ron had mentioned 'Juliet' being good, I've heard others also mention 'Cupid'.

Thanks!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I've been hearing,..more people say that Cupid is best,..largest of all sour cherries, 6.5 gr. but moderate producer. Juliet would probably be my first pick because it's a better producer, taste is one of the best also. Both are hardier then then Carmine Jewel.

Here is a link that might be useful: Romance' Series


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

2014 Winter damage on Carmine Jewel. Of the 6 bushes, damage ranged from 10% to 40%. If Juliet and Cupid are hardier, I need to find a source and get a few.

Carmine Jewel damage photo RedLakeandFruitPatch010_zps2d484201.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

 photo RedLakeandFruitPatch011_zpsbfafeee2.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

 photo RedLakeandFruitPatch013_zpsfea02a42.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

northernmn: I may be off on this in your case, but your picture of what seems like vigorous one-year wood reminds me that for the hardy cherry trees (SK's and Evans) not to lose their winter-hardiness, they should be grown on moderately fertile soils, not rich soils, should be fertilized only once per year, if at all, and only in spring, and should not be watered in late summer, so that the wood hardens off for winter,

R


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I would also add to check closely for vole damage, with the branches near the base of the bush it can be hard to see. On mine they had a nest area among the branches and only chewed near the centre leaving the outer shoots alone, now there is fungi present in parts of the base. Wayne


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Wayne, My CJs are single stem until they are 2 or 3" out of the ground and then they start branching. I did look for vole damage and didn't see any.. I'll probe a little deeper to see if there is anything. My guess is not. After the 1st frost in the fall, I have a major vole poisoning campaign.

Ron, I don't fertilize my CJs and the ground there is only moderately fertile. That's probably why they are growing so slow! I do think that you may right about it being a hardening off issue.

There were several late fall rains and the ground was fairy wet. I probably compounded the problem because I have 2" to 3" deep wood chip mulch around the plants. The chips kept the ground moist and I think that they slowed the root cooling process. The chips may have acted like a blanket and kept the ground at the roots from freezing soon enough. I don't think that the ground was frozen very deep when the -30 F hit. If I continue to use the wood chips at all, they will be pulled way back from the plants in late October.

Based on other damage in the fruit patch, I am really thinking that the wood chips caused a lot of the problems. It seems that the chips retard the hardening off process.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Looks like the trees are way too pampered in your nice weed free garden.
Agree with Ron,...too much one year growth, = too much winter kill. As I said in your plum thread, borderline hardy trees can be helped by letting grass grow in and don't even cut it. It helps to even out temperature fluctuation, less growth, can keep light frost out. This method has helped me harvesting Evans cherries.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

twrosz - I've been told that Juliet, Cupid and Crimson Passion are the sweetest to eat off the bush. I have them all planted a couple years ago, so I've very eager to find out for myself! I also planted Romeo, because I read it produces heavily and is great for processing.

I'm pleased that I'm not the only one finding these cherries to be EXTREMELY slow to start producing. This year I think only half of them flowered much, and so far I can't see any setting fruit. Last year I got ONE cherry! One! And the worst part was, while I was waiting for it to ripen, a stinking bird ate it! Argh! I'll have to cover them with netting for sure once they start producing. Good to know there isn't something wrong with them and I just need to give them another couple years.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

My cupids going into 5th summer from seedling at full blossom just now setting


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

My cupids going into 5th summer from seedling at full blossom just now setting


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Great blossoms on these Cupids..hopeful fruit set is great also.

Most likely these are not seedlings,..you put them in as plugs,..tissue grown. Seedlings make inferior plants.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

LOL, I was reading further up on this thread and realized that I posted twice, a couple months apart, about how I'm happy I"m not the only one waiting impatiently for the U of S cherries to mature and bear heavily. Tee hee. Whoops.

Apparently misery loves company. ;)

Wow, what a lot of blooms! Mine certainly don't look like that!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Yah, it's kind of strange. I hold out so much hope for the UofS cherries -- surely 60 yrs of breeding has to have come up with something wonderful?! Yet so far... after 3 summers in the garden, I've only had one year (year 2) where I got a cup or so of cherries from Cupid. Other than that it's been at best a couple of cherries from random bushes, low down where the slugs get to them before I do. Yet my Evans cherry, put in a year earlier, has produced at least a cup of cherries every year.

This year it looks like I will get at least some cherries from each of the 4 UofS varieties (though I realize a lot can go wrong over the next 6 weeks). Meanwhile, the Evans is setting a much heavier crop than probably all 4 UofS cherries combined. I know Konrad often speaks of the heavy set of Evans, and I really want to believe that the UofS varieties are better, but 4 years in and there's no doubt that the Evans has been much more reliable so far.

Well, I had to wait 10 years for my Ure pear to start producing, maybe I should be more patient.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

how old were your cherries when you planted


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

To: don555
RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree
Posted by don555 3a (My Page) on Fri, Jun 27, 14 at 2:36
- Initial comment1 (excerpts)…I hold out so much hope for the UofS cherries…so far... after 3 summers in the garden, I've only had one year (year 2) where I got a cup or so of cherries from Cupid. Other than that it's been at best a couple of cherries from random bushes…. Yet my Evans cherry, put in a year earlier, has produced at least a cup of cherries every year.…Meanwhile, the Evans is setting a much heavier crop than probably all 4 UofS cherries combined. I know Konrad often speaks of the heavy set of Evans, and I really want to believe that the UofS varieties are better, but 4 years in and there's no doubt that the Evans has been much more reliable so far.
- Reply1: My understanding was that both SK cherries and Evans cherries are expected to start producing fruit after three or four years; probably four if small plugs are planted. But such are just averages and should not be expected every time by everybody. I am just happy when my plants look healthy and I tend not to make comparisons with what other people get when they are. I'm just interested in the long view.
And full maturity of Evans and SK cherries is not reached until maybe seven years (on average). I once picked 15 quarts off an eleven-year-old Evans, and neighbours have picked 22 litres (US quarts) off a seven year old Evans. So, perhaps the waits and small crops you have experienced so far are just what you should expect; with much more production to happen in the future.
Here, in zone 3, northern Ontario, Canada I think some Evans trees had trouble with the severe winter we just had, while the SK's shrugged it off. But my cherry trees are all too young to be drawing general conclusions from. My Carmine Jewel probably had a few cherries first at age four, and so is producing for probably the fifth or sixth time this year, with a pretty good crop expected.

- Initial comment 2: …had to wait 10 years for my Ure pear to start producing, maybe I should be more patient.
- Reply2: My Early Gold pear flowered several years in a row without producing a single pear until the year when the Ure grafts I put onto it flowered too. From then, for several years, I had both varieties producing fruit, as they were cross pollinating each other. This year though, the Ure did not flower, due to winter damage to its fruit buds I am sure, and so again I will have no pears of either type because no cross-pollination could occur. Although other growers sometimes claim that they get pear production from solitary pear trees, I am convinced that Ure and Early Gold, probably Golden Spice and other hardy pear varieties, require cross-pollination to produce fruit.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

My Carmine Jewel has very few fruit setting this year so next year should be heavy barring weather. I should be thinning in heavy set years but could not be bothered. Like Konrad had stated the weather was not good at flowering time, plus winter kill on flower buds. I also had heavy winter kill on Nanking cherry buds. Just a thought here, could a person say that where Evans does good Sask. cherries don't and visa versa or am I off base!!!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

My Carmine Jewel has bloomed heavily for the past two years and appears to set fruit, however on the first warm day each June the small fruit turn red and drop. Visually the tree looks great with lots of growth, no critters around and no die back. Any ideas?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Ronlewis, I realize I'm impatient, so it's good to hear that you have been getting good production from your CJ. Hopefully I will get the same, soon.

I find the SK cherries to be very different than any other fruit tree or bush I have grown. Normally it takes a few years for trees to start flowering, but once they start flowering they start producing fruit. My SK cherries, put in as 2' or more tall potted plants and now 5'-7' depending on the variety, have flowered well every year since I planted them. But as Ryan notes above, turning those flowers into fruit has been frustrating. My plants appear quite healthy, I've not had any issues with late frosts, no winterkill, lots of bees and other pollinators around during flowering, but almost no fruit. This year it looks like I will get a small amount of fruit from all 4 SK varieties, but I find the lack of turning flowers into fruit frustrating. For example, here's a pic of my Romeo cherry this May, with lots of blooms. Now it has just a handful or a few of fruit developing.
 photo IMG_9012-1.jpg

Whereas my Evans, which has flowered every year since 2011, has produced fruit every year since 2011. That makes sense to me -- once it starts flowering it starts bearing fruit, and more flowers equals more fruit. Here's the kind of set I'm getting on it... if only the SK cherries would do the same!
 photo Jun2714Evans1.jpg

This post was edited by don555 on Sat, Jun 28, 14 at 4:33


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Kind of a double post... edited the one above, can't figure out how to delete this one which commented on my original error above...

This post was edited by don555 on Sat, Jun 28, 14 at 4:35


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Don, the picture of your Evans is more like what my Carmine Jewel can do but all the fruiting tips generally will die back or be very weak after a fruit set like that. The Evans that I ripped out would grow very big leaves but not flower, I have not fertilized either one because they generally put on plenty of growth each year. I moved a sucker from the C.J. and might do a couple more to see how they do in other parts of my yard. I have gumbo, loam and then a mix from landscaping close to the building.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

the Romance series are listed as self pollinating.Evan's are self fruitful .For me it seems fruit set is heavier in the romance series when there is bloom over lap with Evans.Anyone grow Rose cherries?I was wondering about their bloom time and their possible use for cross pollination with the romance series.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

While the Evans and the SK cherries are listed as self-pollinating (self-fruitful means the same thing, right?), I've read that they will produce bigger crops when cross-pollinated, which I think you can now vouch for. Here they all bloom at the same time most years; but the Evans bloomed later than the others this year, a year in which apple leaves and blooms were delayed my several weeks here.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

self pollinating set fruit but greatly benefit from another pollen source self fruitful set fruit heavy with no other pollen source so no they are not quite the same


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

SK cherries shedding more and more of the cherries that I'd hoped would make it through to maturity. Getting PO'd with these guys. I'm still hopeful to get at least a few cherries from all 4 varieties, but if not, how long to continue? It's been 4 years so far... maybe give them 2 more years before re-evaluating their place in my garden? If they haven't produced heavily by then, probably time to cut-bait.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Argh, that really sucks, Don. What the heck makes them abort their fruit?! Not enough water at the right time? Too much? Not hot enough? Too hot?

You would think that with them having been trialed for years at U of S, they must be ABLE to get lots of fruit. But what are we doing wrong?


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

What worries me greatly, but am not really sure about, is that the problem of cherry trees' aborting fruit may be a disease. I cannot say that the trees exhibit all the symptoms described in various related internet articles, many of which articles are about sweet cherries. But these articles, along with the descriptions of problems people have told me about, plus my own observations over last year and the start of this year, and not the reports surfacing in this forum, have me very apprehensive. I have seen the disease named variously, in internet articles, as 'Cherry Buckskin', 'X-Disease', and 'Little Cherry Disease', a virus (viruses?) spread by leaf hoppers, and possibly spread from wild chokecherries. I am just conjecturing here. I do not have much evidence, have not pursued the topic scientifically, and may not even have my facts straight, but it is worrisome. So I hope somebody can contribute some wisdom in this area; it would be particularly interesting to hear from those prairie farmers and others who planted orchards of Evans and SK cherries in recent years.
I have attached a link to a brief article on Cherry Buckskin disease, because the picture reminds me of what I am seeing on my trees, and I wonder if it is what others are seeing too. But otherwise my cherry trees seem very healthy in all other ways. I do have chokecherries bordering my property, however.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cherry Buckskin Disease..


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I am sure what don is experiencing is just the waiting for his trees to mature.I think that next year will mark better years to come.He has everything in place and all he needs is time.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

I got the series as puny little guys from DNA Gardens, that was something like ten long years ago. They grew and had thrived up until this past winter, well most had shrugged off the terrible winter, while a few are half dead. The largest tree is a big honking thick full wide bush of 8 ft tall ... though, problem is we'll be lucky to harvest even a small bowl of cherries from it. I do not have a lot of space to dedicate to fruit growing and with all the time that has passed, instead we could have been harvesting bountiful apples and possibly even some plums. I will leave the most healthy trees, though if these soon don't kick into gear I'll be replacing them with other fruits.

This post was edited by twrosz on Fri, Jul 4, 14 at 18:11


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Fruit set was a major problem with all fruits this year, even some apples have suffered, mostly Norkent and Sept. Ruby, some of the Evans Cherries are still aborting now,..at flowering time it was too cold, [my conclusion]. I don't think out in the prairies they have it much better.

We'll have to comfort our self's with raspberries this year!


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Fascinating discussion. I don't know what's going on with these guys, but SOMETHING just doesn't seem right. The disease hypothesis is an interesting one... no obvious disease symtoms on any of my bushes but I won't discount the possibility.

It certainly can't be lack of pollen. I have 4 varieties of SK cherries planted in a row and all of them have bloomed in each of the past 4 years (sometimes lightly, sometimes heavily). And there are 3 other Prunus within 20' of the SK cherries (3 plums, including 2 wild plums). I also have an Evans maybe 50' away that bloomed well also. Not all of these overlap on bloom time, but enough do that there is considerable overlap, and the SK cherries are supposed to be self-pollinating anyway. This year I watched lots of bees and other insects at the flowers, and the plants didn't bloom until weeks after our last frost.

After flowering, most blossoms just fell off, but many started to develop small cherries. After a few weeks, some of these small cherries dropped off, while many others began to grow in size quickly -- these were the ones I expected to be harvesting in August. Now about 3/4 of those bigger ones have fallen. Meanwhile, on the Evans sour cherry tree, all of the ones that originally started to grow in size quickly are still growing and look very healthy.

If Terry has 10 year old, full-size bushes that still aren't producing, something just isn't right here. Maybe I'll try contacting the breeders to see if they have any insight...

This post was edited by don555 on Fri, Jul 4, 14 at 2:18


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Konrad, my September Ruby flowered heavily and set very well, just finishing the "June drop" now, looks like I might have to thin the remaining apples to prevent too heavy a crop. Same for my apple-crab. Also this was the heaviest fruit set on my young Evans cherry by far this year (of it's 5 years of fruit production). There might have been some tough conditions in the country this spring, but in the city it was pretty good for everything. Except the SK cherries.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

My cupids had a good bloom set last year going into their 4th summer but failed to set fruit.This in their 5th summer they had heavy bloom set and a good fruit set.Of 180 cupids they all showed this same trait .My Juliette in their 4th summer had OK bloom set but fruit set is limited all 360 showing this same trait.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Goldenheights, that's interesting, and with so many trees you get rid of the risk of a possible oddball bush like I may have with just one of each variety. How large are your bushes now? My Cupid is about 5'.

My trees looked like they set fruit well this spring, but now it seems to have stopped getting bigger, then turns yellow and falls. Here's a shot of my cupid today... one of the 4 cherries in this photo still seems to be growing, the others will soon fall.
 photo Jul414Cupid.jpg

Here's a shot of my CJ... the cherries are mostly still green and healthy looking, but they do seem to have stopped growing and I fear they will soon yellow and fall.
 photo Jul414CarmineJewel.jpg

By comparison, here's my Evans today. Cherries are much larger. Some have stopped growing and are withering, but nothing like on the SK cherries.
 photo Jul414Evans.jpg

This post was edited by don555 on Fri, Jul 4, 14 at 15:36


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

My cupids started out the year at about 6ft and I expect them to finish this year 7 to 8 ft.I expect my Juliette to be about the 6ft mark by fall.Last year I was in in the same position as you wondering why.I did find literature from the U of Saskatchewan that said this fruiting behavior was to be expected.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Okay, thanks, guess I'll have to stop dwelling on it and give them another year.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Meanwhile, at the Devonian Botanic Garden today, this litte 2' or 2.5' Juliet bush had this kind of fruit set when exposing the inside of the bush...
 photo Jul614DevonianJuliet1.jpg

 photo Jul614DevonianJuliet2.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

It could have had some winter damage outside, or, sheltered, [inside low when flowering] kept the cold out and fruit set was better.
I visited a friend about 12 min. north west of the Devonian Garden, the HUGE Evans bush was flowering but about 0 fruit set, same with Juliet.

Outside the City it is soooo..important to plant these in a very sheltered spot and on high ground.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Carmine Jewel fruit is starting to colour up now. Wow, so tiny, I was expecting them to get twice as big as they are. In the pic above from July 4 when I said they appeared to stop growing and I was worried that meant they were going to drop, it seems really they were full size and getting ready to ripen. Watering the bush now since it's been very dry and maybe the extra moisture will help the fruit size up a bit or at least not dry up.

This post was edited by don555 on Tue, Jul 15, 14 at 16:00


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Carmine Jewel Cherry Ripening

An acquaintance wrote me today to say how much the Carmine Jewel cherries were enjoyed (for the first time). This is waaaaaaaaay too early.
For any readers of this forum who have not experienced eating a CJ cherry, they will be dark when ripe. Usually CJ's turn a lovely bright cherry red about now; they might even be soft to the touch, and perhaps even yellow inside like an Evans cherry, only seven weeks earlier. Uh, uh! To the cherry-starved this might be a wonderful experience, but wait...at least two more weeks...until the CJ cherries are purple (black) outside and inside, skin and flesh. Only then have they developed their flavour and some sweetness, and are ready to be picked (roughly the first week of August).
CJ fruit left on the tree after they turn purple are supposed to hang on the tree for a long time, sweetening slightly with time. To test this, last year I left my last four CJ's on the tree and they stayed on until I finally picked them in mid-September, before an expected frost. But they only had sweetened up a little during that last month and a half.
If you pick them early, when cherry red, you may be 'bitterly' disappointed (pun intended). For some reason a couple of my Romeo fruit are like that now, while the CJ's are still mostly green (but full-size). Although some people claim to prefer sour fruit, I think you would be missing out if you pick your SK cherries when red (except for Valentine which only gets bright red).


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

They should end up almost the same size as Evans,..average
4 gr. on the Carmine Jewel, 4.4 gr. on the Evans.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

ron, thanks for the tips on when to pick. They are definitely just turning the cherry red colour now. They seem small to me. Here's a photo of my Carmine Jewel, do they get bigger as they turn to red then purple?
 photo Jul1514CarmineCherry.jpg

Here's my Evans today... no red colour but already a bit bigger than the CJ:
 photo Jul1514EvansCherry.jpg


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Question: Posted by don555 3a (My Page) on Tue, Jul 15, 14 at 21:59
ron, thanks for the tips on when to pick. They are definitely just turning the cherry red colour now. They seem small to me. Here's a photo of my Carmine Jewel, do they get bigger as they turn to red then purple?

Reply: I don't have enough experience or enough trees to answer with confidence, but I will offer my impressions anyway. In your second photo where the cherries are green, the fruit look to be about the right size and shape for CJ. But in the first photo where cherries are turning red, the size seems smaller, and the shape seems less elongated, which make me wonder is we are looking at two different trees or even two different varieties in the two photos. The smaller, squatter, half-ripe fruit look like what I am seeing on my Romeo cherry today.
I have not seen Romeo fruit before so I am a bit confused both by your picture and by my tree. The Romeo fruit is supposed to ripen about three to four weeks later than the CJ but to be slightly larger fruit (4.0 g compared to 3.5 g). So not much is making sense right now.
What does seem right, besides the size and shape of the green CJ's in your second photo, is that after an initial period where I wondered if any of my CJ's would be left after many started shrivelling up (as discussed in previous posts by several forum contributors), there now seems to be a good load of CJ's that are starting to change from green to red (without shrivelling up).


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Maybe I wasn't clear. The first photo is Carmine Jewel. The second photo is Evans sour cherry. I was expecting CJ to be as big as Evans, but clearly they are not.

I also have Juliet and Romeo ans Cupid. The Juliet and Romeo have small fruit about the same size as Carmine Jewel, but no hint of reddening at all yet so I'm hoping they'll get a bit bigger.

The Cupid has only a few cherries on it but they are much, much larger, some about the size of BC sweet cherries, and the biggest ones are now turning red on the Cupid.

This post was edited by don555 on Tue, Jul 15, 14 at 23:09


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

don555: I strongly suspect that certain web sites, including some of my favourite YouTube videos, as well as some nurseries and some articles, have mistakes regarding the descriptions of SK cherry varieties. As well, some of us may have made mistakes in our records; I know I have. So, why am I making pronouncements regarding such questions on this forum? First to be helpful, second because the one I am very confident in, the Carmine Jewel, has given me crops maybe six times, and third because we have the U of S descriptions to go by (see attached).
So, in the spirit of getting to the bottom of things, and not because I am a know it all, I offer the following comment:
My Carmine Jewel cherries when green look like your green Evans cherries (and perhaps that is what they both should look like, I'm not so sure on this one); but your first photo does not look at all like CJ to me. Maybe the charts I've included will help us identify our SK cherry varieties where there is any doubt.
Sorry that I have lost the source of the attached chart, as I should give credit to the author(s); the source may be either the U of S, or else DNA Gardens I suspect. The link below (?) from Prairie Tech Plant Systems takes us to a chart that contains much of the same information, but only for SK's.

Here is a link that might be useful: Comparison Chart for SK Cherries


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

This chart is showing even less weight,..3.5 gr. smallest of all cherries, so, this would make sense, in your picture being smaller then Evans.

I'm pretty sure, heaving lots of moisture can pop up cherries, I know that Evans does, usually at ripening time.

This post was edited by konrad___far_north on Wed, Jul 16, 14 at 19:48


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Interesting chart, thanks for posting. It matches almost exactly what I'm seeing -- Cupid the biggest, Evans second, Carmine Jewel the smallest, and Romeo just a bit bigger than Carmine Jewel.

Only difference is that perhaps my Juliet should be closer to Evans in size, but since Juliet is still fully green perhaps it still has some growing to do.

Also, I'd like the cherries to overall be a bit bigger, but maybe this dry heat of the past 2 weeks has stressed the plants to produce smaller fruit than I was expecting. Or maybe they'll get a bit bigger as they ripen over the next month or so.


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RE: Carmine Jewel Cherry Tree

Turns out the Carmine Jewel size did improve as the cherry ripened. Still a small cherry, but that has advantages since it fits perfectly into my vintage cherry-pitter, whereas modern big sweet cherries (and probably Cupid bush cherries) are too big for the pitter to handle.

Anyway, rather than add into this long thread here, I started a new thread over in the Fruit & Orchards forum. Here's the link for anyone interested:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg0802251010794.html


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