I really don't think you can technically limit the question to physiological differences because there are some cultural variations inherent in each application.

A couple of examples:

Cells/tissues containing chlorophyll are still able to produce advantageous photosynthate. Since there are subtle differences in the amount of light that would fall on each cutting in each case, it would potentially affect the outcome. Part of the cutting in a container would be buried, but the entire above ground surface would receive light. How/where you place the baggie would determine if there was a shaded side, or if the entire cutting would receive light (you'd have to hang it if the latter were to be the case).

The choice of media composition and its particle size would also have some sway in the equation. Since it's unlikely that you would over-wet media using the baggie method (because you can clearly see how wet it is), it would probably gain the advantage - especially if the media chosen was as water-retentive as something like vermiculite. If the particulate size of the media was small, the baggie method would again gain favor, but that advantage would wane & finally disappear as avg particle size approaches 1/8".

If there is an advantage to be had by the baggie method in getting the plant to root, it could well be lost in the realization that some of the roots formed in the bag will be broken or die in the transition to soil. This is something of a consideration in terms of available remaining stored energy reserves, as it takes additional energy to replace any lost rootage & the cutting will usually stall while it sets usable roots in the new home.

IMO, the success rate for each would be so close as to say it matters little, but for me, the one-step method (in a cup) gets the nod because, in the end, it is probably more conservative of the cutting's energy reserves. Carica, though, is so genetically vigorous and the difference in the rooting methods so small that together these two observations probably render both the question and my answer moot.

Al

Al
You mentioned "Since there are subtle differences in the amount of light that would fall on each cutting in each case, it would potentially affect the outcome."
Is more light beneficial during the rooting process (both), or it helps more the shoots emergence than the rooting? Some suggest using black bags. Your input will be appreciated.

Al, It would seem that it would be six of one, half dozen of the other as phytosynthesis would "produce advantageous photosynthate" for the cutting, but etiolation would promote rooting.

I think Fignut is right. Some plants are so difficult to propagate via cuttings that you have to follow a regimen that guarantees consideration of very specific influencing factors and then maintain the factors at their optimum. On the other hand, plants like Carica are so genetically vigorous that you probably have to work pretty hard at it to get your efforts to fail.

I sort of generalized for the sake of brevity when I talked about the impact of photosynthesis on cuttings. Actually, deciduous plants are all over the spectrum in terms of whether irradiance or photoperiod have significant effect on root initiation. We do know that it is of value for carbohydrate production immediately after roots have formed.

I really don't know for sure where Carica falls in the scheme of whether light is a benefit in initializing roots. This leads me to ask you (Fignut) if you are generalizing too, when you say "etiolation would promote rooting." IOW, do you have specific knowledge about Carica in particular that states the preferred method of propagation by rooting cuttings is favored by etiolation (dark)? Then the question has to be answered: "How does the answer relate or how applicable is the information to the 'baggie method'? The reason I ask that is because it seems unlikely there is any scientific info out there on that method because commercial operations wouldn't use it. I'm not being adversarial, I would just curious and would like to know. If you have chased it that far and are sure, we'll have another tool in the box. ;o)

After looking again at Ottawan's question, I think I probably covered it somewhere in this post.

Take care.

Al

Al, I'm not Fignut, but I was reading a report from Brazil just last week regarding the propogation of Ficus carica. Two points which were noted in this report, and may apply to this discussion: 1. stratification in sand and soil mix (which I am assuming would mean dormant, and would lead to etiolation) diminishes the percentage of rooting success, ie, the longer the period of stratification the lower the percentage of rooting.
2. The growth of green buds on cuttings increases the amount of auxins responsible for the establishment of roots.
About the question of etiolation which you raised - I would think that a change in the bark due to darkness would take longer than the short time in which most fig cuttings take root. Unless my supposition is false this would mean that the rooting of cuttings is caused by the captured moisture rather than the darkness.

Elder
I am mising some point in your message.
In brief, your first point states "stratification in sand and soil mix (which I am assuming would mean dormant, and would lead to etiolation) diminishes the percentage of rooting success, ie, the longer the period of stratification the lower the percentage of rooting.".
And the corollary of your point 2 is "the rooting of cuttings is caused by the captured moisture rather than the darkness."

My question is as to what stops the cuttings from moisture absortion during snad+soil stratification to cause lower success rate (unless it is at freezing temperatures)?

Al, It is a generalization - I haven't tried it on figs.

Elder, I'm as puzzled as Ottawan over the first point. Was there any additional information as to probable cause, or other factors that might be involved (such as temperature as Ottawan suggested)?
As to the amount of time required to see the benefit of etiolation - I think you are probably right. A proper trial would be to band cuttings on the tree while growing, and compare those etiolated cuttings with regular ones.

I started to answer Elder's ?s last night late after a trivia contest at the bar (our team had a poor showing last night), but I dropped the mouse & the screen went black and I cried big tears of frustration at losing my efforts, gave up, and went to bed.

I'm missing something, too. I can comment on the length of stratification observation, but I'm unclear about what the other parts of the questions mean. Could you please clarify, Elder - or rephrase so I can sidestep my block? Thanks.

Al

My reference to etiolation is based on our assumptions that it enhances the development of roots. If etiolation is caused by darkness, wouldn,t stratification in sand/soil create darkness. If that is true, then why did the Brazilian experiment come out with results just the opposite. Guess what I'm saying is that sometimes what we think is true, ain't.....

I won't make that leap (darkness promotes rooting) because I simply don't know with any certainty how photoperiod and irradiance impacts carica rooting in particular. Deciduous plants are all over the spectrum when it comes to the influence of light on root initialization, and it often depends on things like the portion of the spectrum provided (color of the light), duration of exposure, intensity ....... I think it's pretty obvious from the high % of success due to the genetic vigor of the plant that it's not nearly as important as in other genera/species, but I know you guys are (fig) nutts and want every advantage. ;o)

Al

I'm sorry if I caused any confusion on the subject. The original question involved the physiology of rooting fig cuttings, and I think this research paper might shed some light on the subject: Factors Affecting on Rooting of Figs Cuttings by L. E. C. Antunes and others, Universidad Federal de Lavras, Brazil......

I have a few trees that I've 'mounded' at the base with some dark- volcanic sand. The tree pushes a number of root suckers through the sand and I do get a lot of them to root, but beware. After a while you will possibly not want all the suckers and the media will promote the development of a multi trunked tree. This is cool if you want to trade a lot, but sooner or later it gets tiring to yank out all of the exra volunteers.
I do find that some varieties throw a lot more basal suckers like Desert King
I would suspect that the 'etiolation of the shoots as they push through that sand, plus the heat of the black sand combine to promote a lot of rooting.
The process takes a few months and I don't think a dormant cutting would have the time for the 'etiolation process' to develop separate from the parent plant. Still, a lot of cuttings root anyhow.

Hello,
Here is some additional information on the paper that Elder mentioned. I'll actually mention another paper that is related first.

These come from the ISHS I and II International Symposim on Fig from 1998 and 2003. These are from ISHS Acta Horticulturae publications #480 and #605. There are two papers in volume 605 that come from researchers at the University in Lavras, Brazil.

The first paper is ÂRooting of Fig (Ficus carica L) Cuttings: Cutting Time and IBA by N.N.J. Chalfun et al. IÂll try to be suscinct and brief. In this experiment cuttings were taken at 15 day intervals between April and August. One group was treated with IBA (indolebutyric acid - a root promoter) and the other group of cuttings for each of the dates was not. They were planted in a 3:2 ratio of soil and sand. The best results came from the early cuttings taken on April 15 - %92 rooted without IBA and %100 rooted with IBA. This decreased over time - for example, cuttings taken on July 30 and not treated had a %37 rate and with IBA %55 rooting success. Obviously the early cuttings were taken closer to the period after dormancy had set in. One other factor was evaluated and that was the above soil vegetative growth - there was greater leafing and budding later in the season which is dependent on heat and was absent earlier in the season. Humidity as a factor was not discussed.

The second paper is, Factors Affecting on Rooting of FIgs (Ficus Carica L) Cuttings by L.E. C Antunes, et al. In this experiment they evalated three factors - stratification period, amount of IBA and soil used. They took dormant 8" cuttings for this experiment. They found that a combination of no stratification time, a sand soil mix 1:1 and an IBA concentration of 100 mg/l got %100 success in rooting. After a 15 day stratification period, this was reduced to %91. They made note that how well a cutting is stored affects this rate of success. Factors such as attack from pathogens damage stored cuttings over time.

They did not discuss factors such as improved cold storage methods, humidity. So that is it in a nutshell. More details are discussed in the papers, but due to time and space limitations I thought that the basic successful principals would be most interesting. If you have a method that works, stick with it. Otherwise, there might be something interesting to consider from these research papers.

This collection of papers from these two symposiums are excellent. Unfortunately they will cost money to get them online. I think that both volumes can be ordered in the electronic form (a cd). Another option would be to check your nearest university science library. If they don't have it, they may be able to get it from another institution.

Ingevald

Ingevald,
the IBA concentration is interesting 100mg/1 is very high, recently i was looking into rooting gels for some ucdavis cuttings that i hope to be recieving and was thinking about trying a few with a rooting gel. Researching on the internet CLONEX rooting gel seems to have the highest IBA at 8mg/1 and stated for Hardwood cuttings as most others are for green or semihard cuttings only with 3mg/1 but this was produced for hardwood its called Clonex RED trouble is i cant find it in this country in 50ML or smaller. From what you have posted it seems that it works excellent in that high number concentration.
Martin

Hello,
I think that the concentration situation is a bit confusing. From my understanding, the 100mg/l is actually a very weak solution. 100 mg is 0.100 grams. I recently looked at a chart provided at this site - http://www.super-grow.biz/IBASolvent.jsp This is a mixing chart for the IBA variety that needs to first be dissolved in a small amount of alcohol before being added to a specified quantity of water.

PPM - parts per million can be figured out by doing the following - Grams divided by Liter. For example 0.1grams (100 milligrams) divided by 1 liter = 100 ppm. Another example - 0.55 grams (550 miligrams) divided by 0.54 liters = (roughly) 1000 ppm.

Take a look at the big three section chart on the lower part of the page. In the top part of the chart (under the 100 ppm column) look at the dilution for 0.110 grams mixed in 1.08 liters of water. (these figure closely match the 100mg/l concentration used in the referenced experiments) If I am understanding this correctly it will result in the 100 ppm which is a weaker concentration of the IBA.

From what I remember of the papers that discuss using IBA, only one mentioned how long the cuttings were soaked in the solution (I think there were three papers that mentioned the 100mg/l concentration). The article 'Rooting of Fig (Ficus carica L.) Cuttings: Cutting Time and IBA' by Chalfun et al mentions that the cuttings were treated for 24 hours in the solution. There is another paper that I did not copy in its entirety that tried a concentration of 1000 and 2000 ppm IBA and had the best results with 1000 ppm IBA. They do not mention the amount of time the cuttings were soaked.

Various concentrations have been used and apparently some positive results are being reported. The other variables of course need to be considered - the time of year that the cuttings were taken, the concentrations of IBA, the amount of time soaked in IBA, etc.

One last note - from reading about IBA, it appeared that the liquid solutions would perhaps be more effective since there appears to be a better distribution of the IBA. With the power, the IBA is disbursed throughout a powder and perhaps enough of it may not get to the stem.

I recently found the liquid variety of IBA at a local nursery called Dip n Grow. It is expensive, but several batches can be made at different concentrations. (Each time a batch is made, it is only fresh for several hours and then it is not effective any more)

As Tapla and others have noted, figs do root easily and if fresh cuttings are used, rooting problems should be minimal. Maintain humidity, appropriate warmth and check for mold!

Ingevald

Here is a link that might be useful: Super Grow dilution chart

Hello,
Here is another interesting reference to rooting that I don't think has been posted before. In the book 'Plant Propagation' by M.K. Sadhu 1989, p. 245, entry #27 - he states that the fig is easily propagated by hardwood cuttings, budding, grafting and air layering. He goes on to say that hardwood cuttings of 2-3 year old wood 20-30 cm long are taken in late winter, treated with IBA, stored in moist material like sawdust at room temps for four weeks and then planted in the nursery for rooting.

I haven't seen any discussion about surrounding cuttings with moist sawdust at room temperature - seems similar to the baggie method.

Interesting -

Ingevald

Ingevald,
thanks for the information on DipnGrow, i went to there site dipngrow.com and they have a chart on the concentrations, basically straight out of the bottle its 10,000 ppm, the clonex red is a gel that is left on the cuttings, i dont know much about these rooting hormones but they are suppose to increase your chances its said from my readings. Although fig sticks are easy to propagate i hope to be getting a few not to common types and Might try it along with the regular baggie method and see what happens not sure yet but have to make up my mind soon as they will arrive next month i believe. The dipngrow i have seen on ebay for 12.00 with free shipping for a 2 ounce bottle of it on ebay and 6.75 for same from several websites minus the shipping, the clonex red does not seem available for some reason in this country only the regular clonex .
Martin

I read in some site (I don't remember where) that the 1000 ppm IBA solution is applied in figs with the "quick dip" method, that is to say a dip of 5 seconds.

Years ago I tested both, 24 hours 100 ppm (and 200 ppm) and 5 seconds 1000 ppm and the results were for me slightly better with the "quick dip" 1000 ppm solution.
Anyway, the results aren't much better than rooting without IBA, so I actually don't use it for rooting figs. IMHO, figs root easily without IBA.

Captainjohn,
i remember a few years back trying to root a el sals because for me its hard to root and finally after getting roots useing baggie method i had put it in a cup and covered with a clear plastic bag and would mist it veryso often only to find it started to get mold starting on it. So i left the plastic off everyday to give it air, it did make it, that was my experience.
As for looking cuutings im hopeing to recieve im just going to use the baggie method and no rooting hormone i have made up my mind as most are easy to root so......
Martin

Check out this message.
Hard wood cuttings.
Buried 1 1/2 inch horizontally completely covered in late winter they say they have over 100% success, because some cutting produce more than one plant.

Click the link, and go down 12 meassages to start reading.

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy Propagation Method