Return to the Fig Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Trying to get the timing right.

Posted by token28001 zone7b NC (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 1, 10 at 19:28

Last year I managed to root some figs (either brown turkey or Celeste, I'm not sure). The ones that I did indoors finally rooted, but died (overwatering) before I could move them outside. This year, I'm trying the bag method and have initials on two of the three test subjects. I've got only 4 cuttings of a Marseilles fig that I really REALLY want to root. When should I start the bag method? Our last frost date is usually mid April. I have a cold frame as well for tender annuals and such for late frosts.

They've been cleaned and are currently being stored in the fridge. I used AB dish soap and 10% bleach to clean before storing them. No mold or other issues have shown up in them yet. I only need one, but would happily plant all 4 in my yard this summer.

I'm tempted to try the easiest method and the one that worked the best last year. I just stuck them in 1/2 sand, 1/2 peat and put them in the coldframe in early March. By June the unknown figs had rooted and were planted out in July. They seem to have survived the winter. I've already found swelling in the buds.

I'm not new to propagation, but I don't want to baby my 4 fig cuttings too long, nor do I want to start too late to get them in the ground before our first frost in late November. Any advice on the timing for Marseilles?


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by ejp3 7NY (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 1, 10 at 20:27

I would get them started now (if going with the bag method). Just my 2 cents but if something worked last year I would probably try half that way and half the baggie method.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

I conducted a public controlled experiment with Marseilles VS cuttings last year using the Improved Baggie Method. My results and pictures were posted on the other fig forum as I rooted them. I obtained a very high (documented) success rate of producing viable trees....much greater than 100%. I will know for sure the exact total number of trees produced from 6 eight inch cuttings in a couple more months. I PURPOSEDLY left leaf nodes that were on my cuttings grow and develop from below the soil line of my rooting cups. Most of the nodes that I left below the soil line grew into nice suckers. I will replant these "suckers" shortly which will produce a few more MB vs trees for me. I expect my final rooting success rate to be 233%......of viable, fully harden-off trees that are ready for in-ground planting. Not bad for a supposedly hard to root cultivar.

FYI.....it took me 45 days from the time I FIRST placed the cuttings into the baggies until the time I FINALLY planted them in trade gallon pots in their final potting soil. Afterwards, I began the process of hardening them off to full sunlight and heavy moisture......another 6 weeks before I knew for certain that all had definitely survived.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan
I hear about your Improved Baggie Method you mention not to
introduce any kind of bottom heat
I didn't get a chance to see your posts in the other forum
Jason posted your methods in this forum but by the time I tryed to look they where gone
I don't know what happen but I feel that I missed alot of
good information
I;m not going to ask for you to repost anything
I just have one question for you if you wouldn't mind answering
I have some cuttings in a tote in baggies but the temperature is only about 63F to 68F do you think I should
try to give them a little heat
the only thing I can do is introduce a heat mate under the box or should I just leave things alone

I love to read your posts
they are not just educational sometimes they are entertaining keep up the good work
let us know when you have the book I want to be one of the first to buy one

Thank you

Mario


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Mario,

Your 63 to 68 degree temperature is fine. I root my cuttings at my room temperature which is usually around 71 degrees F.

Keeping your cuttings at a near constant temperature is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than the actual rooting temperature. Applying ANY outside heating source (baseboard heaters, heating pads, direct sunlight, hot water heaters, space heaters, etc.) to your cuttings will likely cause damage and mold to your cuttings. You can help achieve a STABILIZED even temperature by simply placing your baggies inside of a closed plastic box until your see root initials on your cuttings......sounds dumb, but trust me on this. IT WORKS AND IT WORKS WELL. Open your baggies daily.....this will then further equalize temperature, allow air to enter, and help stabilize the possible unstable humidity level inside of the baggie caused by a "supersaturation" event. Believe it or not.........your atmospheric air pressure in your area can make this unstable humidity condition happen. Doing what I suggest will lessen its impact and possible damage to your cuttings.

When you later move your cuttings from baggies and put them into your rooting cups......do the same thing. Keep them in a closed "clear" plastic container and do not apply any outside heating source to them (very important).....again strive to keep them at a STABILIZED even room temperature. If your floor is very cold, put the plastic container on a book, blanket, or whatever to keep it off of the cold floor. Place your rooting cups on a rack inside of the bin. Temperature differentials of any sort in a closed rooting environment can cause damage to buds, emerging leaves, and roots......avoid this condition in your rooting methods and you will become a better fig rooter. My research is quite clean on this and I hope this rather NEW information is helpful to forum members.

Sure you can get a few plants by heating your cuttings or rooting cups. BUT.....you will have far fewer problems and get more plants if you don't apply any heat and follow the very simple suggestions that I have made. My very high rooting success did not happen by chance......it happened by design. It can happen for you too........

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Thanks. The bag method seems to be working well with black mission. I'll start three of these cuttings today and save the fourth for my outside method that worked last year.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Thanks Dan

You have put my mind at ease

I have them in a closed bin its Blue not clear does that make much difference or you think I should get a clear bin

The floor is not vary cold but I think I will get a piece of foam insulation and sit the bin on it

What you say makes a lot of sense to me and I believe on your research
You Know how it is I can't wait to see roots and it feels like if I was to give it some heat they would develop faster

Everyday I open the bin open the bags and there is no change

Patience is something I'm still working on at my age you would think that I would have some by now its going to be something that I'm going to work on the rest of my life
I'm going to do just as you suggested and open the baggies every day and leave things be the way they are now

Normally how long will it take to see any kind of signs that roots are developing at this temperature you think?

Thanks vary much for your impute
its much appreciated

Mario


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

It is best to use a clear plastic bin for your rooting cups......it shouldn't matter much for your baggies. FYI I routinely use 27 quart and 64 quart Sterilite latchable clear plastic storage bins. They can be stacked. I do not buy into the conventional wisdom as to when cuttings start producing food from photosynthesis........more on that later when I have further hard data to support my beliefs.

Can't say for sure how long before you see roots initials. It takes me about 45 days to root cuttings using the Improved Baggie Method and have them potted in trade gallon containers in their final potting soil. Then it takes another 45 days for me to FULLY harden off the new plants to direct sunlight and to heavy moisture conditions. I do not count my cutting as "rooted" until it is a fully harden-off tree......but, that is just me. Getting roots to appear on a stick is very easy, it is a bit harder to turn it into a viable tree.

My fig hobby has given me the patience that I lacked during my former corporate profit-driven career. I love to open the baggies & bins daily and watch those sticks slowly turn into fig trees.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Six weeks for roots is the average your saying
I guess I can live with that

I will be buying some clear Plastic Bins

I have seen some but the lids are not clear
But if they are to be stacked it wont matter much

Did I understand you correctly you pot them directly into gallon pots after rooting

I bought about 50 peat pots about 3" wide and I was going to plant the rooting in them first just so I wouldn't disturb the root system to much them move them again to a gallon pot is that not recommended,the bigger pots are going to take up some room

Mario


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

My black missions were put in their bag on Jan 2. I now have what I would consider roots, even though they are only 1/8" long. I imagine with the growth over the past two days, they'll be real roots in another 10-14 days. So six weeks sounds about right. I just did the Marseilles this evening. Following the same timeline, I should have potted plants ready to go outside during the day in mid March. We're usually in the mid 60s by then with occasional freezing nights. I'll be bringing them inside before the sun sets at that point.

Just hope I can get the Black Missions to survive the month of March without being put outside. I do have a light rack, but it's kind of full.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

After I see root initials on the cuttings in the baggies, I move them to 3 inch peat pots that I have already just barely moistened with water. I prepare my rooting mix as follows: Mix 1 part Fertilome Ultimate Potting Mix (UPM) with 1 part COARSE perlite into a bucket. Add a bit of water and mix well....keep adding water until the rooting mixture just holds together and forms a ball in your hands.....at that point you have added enough water. If the mix does not form a ball when squeezed gently in your hand....add more water and mix again until if finally does form a ball. BE SURE to mix your rooting mixture with water BEFORE you add it to your peat pots. If you mix it with water the day before, it is much better. Also, if you can have everything at the same temperature that's even better...but don't worry about this if you can't.

Put your barely moist 3 inch peat pot into a 16 oz clear plastic cup that you have drilled some drainage/air holes in the bottom.....note that you may well have a void space under the peat pot. Remove the peat pot and add some of your barely moist rooting mix to fill that void that was under the peat pot. Put the peat pot into the clear plastic cup and on top of the mix that you have just added. Place your cutting inside and gently fill up the cups with barely moist rooting mix. Finally put your plastic cups into a CLEAR plastic bin that has a drainage rack on inside bottom. The rack is to help ensure good air flow thru your rooting cups AND TO HELP INSULATE the bottom of the cups from a cold floor......remember what I stated earlier?....we are using the rack to help ensure we have no temperature differentials in our new rooting cup environment.....and we are striving to keep a STABILIZED temperature inside.

Open that bin with your rooting cups DAILY to allow air inside and help stabilize both temperature AND any unstable humidity that may have developed. Be sure to immediately remove any leaves that you see fall from your cuttings.......they will form mold if you don't. If you use the nutrient containing UPM/perlite that I HIGHLY RECOMMEND as your rooting mix, you will see huge MONSTER roots grow inside, above, and below your peat pots. Since this rooting mix has nutrients in it, you can plant them into trade gallon (or larger) pots at your convenience.

I achieve a very high success rate with this method because I pay attention to the details of what I have written.....change anything and you may get a different result. This Improved Baggie Method is about as close to foolproof as a fig rooting method could be. The techniques described are based on good science and are incorporated into the method to help insure a more reliable and predictable end result.

Good Luck and have fun turning your sticks into trees.

I would appreciate some FEEDBACK from forum members on the clarity and usefulness of these instructions. It is not very encouraging to me to reveal any other tips or rooting secrets when I do not receive much feedback!!


Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Sometimes I try to give feedback on all methods, but I seem to get shot down, must not be phrasing things well enough ;)

I concur with Dan. I don't know why people say Marseille VS Black is so hard to root. I started with (3) 10" cuttings. One of those had 6-7 nodes, and I wound up cutting it down to a 1-, 2- and 3-node cutting. 5 of my 6 cuttings are showing explosive roots in the cup. I can supply pics if required. One of them is showing great top growth with hardly any root growth. I have faith that at least 4 will make it, but hope that all six will make it. I am planning on giving a couple away to local fruit nuts like myself, and give/trade with a couple of forum members I've become friendly with in the last couple months.

Mario, shoot me an email. I have some missing info you'll find helpful.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan
The recipe sounds good and makes sense. Now the fig hobbyist have to use the recipe and come back with more feedback later since the taste of the pudding recipe is when good roots appear to make it a viable tree.
Finally you are saying things.....
I have to make sure I keep a copy this time.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan, being a complete newbie when it came to starting figs other that sticking a stick in a pot and hoping it started, I can attest to the clarity of your instructions. I must say by dropping a new hint here and there along the way makes it interesting, like in the post above. I notice you said to put a rack in the container to lift the cups off the bottom. I think that's the first time I've heard you mention it. I've seen others mention it because they they put water in the bottom of the container. I'm assuming your reasoning behind this rack is for temperature control. A cup sitting on the bottom would be subject to heat or cold transfer from container but by elevating it off the bottom it is isolated from this. Thus keeping a more constant temp and avoiding condensation build up in the cups.

Either way, keep up the good work. It's really appreciated.

"gene"


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

I do Understand what your saying makes sense to me I Have the peat pots ready
As Gene said you are vary clear on your instructions
and every Hint is vary much appreciated by us newbies
its gives us hope when things sometimes look bad

Please keep them hints comming

I just need to clear something out if you don't mind
do you put a dome or cover on each cutting while in the peat pots or just put them in the bin

I will be looking for that book that you are going to write on figs

Let us know when it comes out

Dan thanks for your patience with us
your work as not gone unnoticed I can assure you

Thank you vary much

Mario


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Thanks for the feedback. Much different that the "shut-up", "liar", "get lost" comments and reception that I was getting on the other forum.......part of the reasons why I left that forum and deleted all of my posts.

Mario,

There is absolutely no need to place vented plastic cups or plastic bags on top of your rooting cups. That clear plastic storage bin alone will provide the optimum rooting environment. Just be sure to open and close it daily as directed.

I have conducted tons of experiments to better understand moisture and how to control it in the rooting environment. Few (if any) will understand both ABSOLUTE humidity and RELATIVE humidity to the extent that I understand it. My former job required a good understanding of these concepts. Humidity levels in the rooting environment are affected by both temperature and atmospheric pressure. Few (if any) rooters or even horticulturist know that atmospheric pressure can affect their rooting success. I have not seen this variable written or discussed anywhere before I brought it up.

Keeping the rooting environment at at a STABILIZED temperature will help avoid reaching the dew point....the point at which moisture condenses......etc, etc, etc. Lots more can be discussed and revealed in this area. Rooters should not UNDERESTIMATE the importance of keeping a stabilized temperature in the rooting zone. It is rather easy to do this if you follow the simple directions given in the Improved Baggie Method. Avoid that great temptation to add heat to your rooting environment.

Bottom line......Understand that what I have written has been well thought out and I have tried to be very clear and precise in what I have written. There is really no need to fully understand all of the scientific mumbo jumbo behind the very simple suggestions that I have made. Closely follow the suggestions that I have made in the Improved Baggie Method and I am confident that it will work well for you too. The application of good science to any procedure will make outcomes much more reliable and predictable.

Re my book......I am now writing a cookbook and it will likely be published first. I go into the science of cooking and how to vary cooking techniques to produce a better tasting product.

Gene,

Yes, the main purpose of the storage rack is to provide better air flow thru the rooting cups and to provide better TEMPERATURE stabilization in the rooting zone by providing a thermal buffer. If rooters are using racks to keep their cups out of liquid water.....they are using entirely too much water.

I did not intentionaly keep that info from you Gene. However, I will tell you that I have some very BIG SECRETS regarding single node rooting...that thus far I have not shared the details with anyone. Some really neat stuff.......

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan, you basically described my method of rooting down the the % of UPM to coarse perlite. The only difference might be that when I gently add the cutting to the soil, I crumble it on. Now, I can stuff a pot full of cuttings and have great success.

The other key is to lightly prewater the UPM/Perlite mix. I used to water afterwards and the mix would turn to mush. I usually see roots in my clear cups within days if not a week.

As for single rooting, it is not very easy, but possible. The node needs to be big enough otherwise it seems to run out of energy and eventually die. I cant seem to find my posting a while back.


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket


Photobucket



 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 3, 10 at 14:00

If you are able to make such statements as: "Few (if any) rooters or even horticulturist know that atmospheric pressure can affect their rooting success. I have not seen this variable written or discussed anywhere before I brought it up.", you should be able to enlighten us with lots of detail so we can decide just how valuable this information might be, and why no one before you has ever taken this important info into account.

"Keeping the rooting environment at at a STABILIZED temperature will help avoid reaching the dew point....the point at which moisture condenses......etc, etc, etc. Lots more can be discussed and revealed in this area."

So let's discuss it. What is so critical about dew points? If we are concerned with the formation of condensate, why not just vent what serves as the propagation chamber. How do you square this advice with the thousands of misting operations that apply mist directly to cuttings?

"Avoid that great temptation to add heat to your rooting environment."

How do you square this advice, which is contrary to virtually every text that addresses woody cuttings, and conventional practice, with the conventional wisdom that woody plants have preferred temperature ranges that facilitate rooting?

There is really no need to fully understand all of the scientific mumbo jumbo behind the very simple suggestions that I have made.

Please expand on this. Are we to discount what you refer to as "the mumbo jumbo" of science and blindly follow advice that you frequently mention disagrees with what you refer to as conventional wisdom? This sounds like "Trust me - don't trust science".

You asked for feedback, so I'll offer what I think. Ficus carica is a VERY vigorous plant. It rates among the very easiest of deciduous trees to propagate by cuttings, and everyone that is familiar with propagation by cuttings gets a very high strike rate with carica. I introduced the forum to starting cuttings in baggies several years ago, for those who were having some difficulty with more conventional methods, and I can assure you that this method is nothing special, and there are several other methods that work better. If there weren't, commercial propagators would all be growing in baggies. There's no problem if people choose to use this method, but it's just not that complicated. It really isn't.

If you remain civil and on topic, I'll be glad to explore some of these areas in greater depth, but because of the history, if you get personal or off topic, I'll simply not respond.

Al




 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Al,

I'm not trying to play Devil's Advocate here, I just wanted to say something (what else is new, eh?).

In your second to the last paragraph you said, "I can assure you that this method is nothing special, and there are several other methods that work better. If there weren't, commercial propagators would all be growing in baggies. There's no problem if people choose to use this method, but it's just not that complicated. It really isn't."

While there are a zillion methods out there, I must say, what makes Dan's "special" is that, for one, it's documented and (or was) easily accessible, it's also easy to digest for the layman, it can be used at any time of the year, and if you can follow a simple recipe, it's pretty freakin' hard to screw up.

While I'm not denying there are several other methods out there, few propagators have taken the time to write out specific technical detail of their methods for consumption by the general public. Dan has, and I think it's been a great help. HOWEVER, I would like to see other methods outlined with a picture explanation and technical information, because I'm one of those minds that sees something and asks questions - very similar to those which you've asked in your post.

Oh, and I want to see some of your questions answered as well, but I'm not holding my breath. Sometimes I feel like seeing you and Dan hash out this stuff is an exercise in seeing who can answer the most questions with more questions.

FTR, I share your philosophy about Ficus Carica L. It may as well be a weed, it's that easy to root. I have had a couple of failures along the way, but always due to stupid mistakes that are totally my fault. It's a fire-and-forget plant, really, just keep the mold an excess moisture away (gotta understand what "excess" is, though, which a lot of people don't!)


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

I refuse to get into this battle of wits, because I'm unarmed!

Cecil..........How's zat?


 o
RE: Trying to get timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 3, 10 at 14:44

It's probably not fair to reply to you or to say that I disagree until I see what the reasoning behind some of the statements in question are. I'm not the only one who has these questions. I've had several emails asking these, and others, along with what my thoughts were. When Dan asked for input, I thought it would be a perfect time to get them answered.

Actually, if Dan wants to email me, we can chat about it by mail. ;o)

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 3, 10 at 15:42

It's not a battle, Cecil. There are just several things that don't make sense to me, and I would appreciate it if I could get a polite explanation before I make any other comments.

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Satellitehead said it all
I just want to add my two cents

Al
You sound like a vary intelligent person
Dan is also a vary Intelligent person
between the two of you us newbies can possibly learn alot
why wont the two of you get along
I must say it saddens me two see two educated people going at each other
I feel that we the forum member are the ones that are going to end up on the losing end if one or both of you get sick of posting here
Al I have not seen any of your methods posted
Dan on the other hand shows what he as to offer and I for one use his method to the letter and I have to say Thank you for taking the time to help others
Its a free Country and no one needs to do anything that they don't want to if you disagree with Dan thats fine you have the right to
post your findings and member can choose what they like better or works for them better

I'm just rambling on

As my father used to say

"Being right is a lonely place"

Mario


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan, I followed your improved baggie method last winter(09)with hardly no failure. Not being as scientific as yourself, did not keep records, but out of 50+ sticks, only lost maybe four or five. Your method was my second attempt at a baggie method, the first attempt met dismal failure which was mostly my fault(used a heating pad on low under the bin the baggies were in). Lost all to mold except maybe two. I too appreciate all your hard work and research and the fact that you freely share it with anyone. Tim


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 3, 10 at 16:29

No problem. If the consensus is that you are happy with the information that you are getting, I have no reason to go to the effort of pointing to areas that do not make sense from a horticultural perspective. I'll bow out and leave the conversation to keep the peace. There is no sense in my injecting myself into a conversation where I'm not wanted or perceived unneeded.

Good luck.

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

The only thing I will say is I think most of us are here to grow fig trees and enjoy the company of many like people, which I do a lot. Some of us have serious problems getting cuttings started, just check the forum about how many have lost cuttings to mold, rot or, what ever. So perhaps to keep it simple is great, I for one am not too concerned about all the scientific reasons or would I understand many of them. I have tried Dan's method and it works. When I set up my pots I will use Dr. Al's method because it works weather I understand all the science behind it or not. I believe it would be to all our benefit if at every turn or statement there isn't a challenge to the other's method. If Dan has some secrets it's fine if he doesn't want to reveal them at this time, and the same goes for Dr. Al. The both of you are well studied in your methods and I respect that. I don't see why it's always a challenge when one makes a statement. When Dr. Al says use all material 1/8" then that's good enough and when Dan says elevate the cups that's good enough. If a method work continually something must be right about it. It may not be the only way to do it, but it works and works well. I feel that some of the things brought up is mumbo-jumbo to me, because of my limited education. Both of you bring a lot to the forum and I would love to have it continue. Blessings to the both of you for we are all God's children.

From the bayou,
"gene"


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

I am counting to 10,000 before I comment....

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to Al written rooting methods

9,998...9,999...10,000!!

I have given members of this forum the details of a very simple rooting method that CONSISTENTLY attains a nearly 100% rooting success......and what Al wants is another DEBATE to decide what the meaning of is "is" and debate from his closed minded positions......give me a figgy break.

I'm biting my tongue, holding my breath, recounting, and doing anything else that I can think of......not to respond to him in a bad guy kinda way.

I'd still love to see AL's complete fig rooting method described in a similar manner to what I have done. How about it AL?...please post your method(s).

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Al, I actually really want to hear more of your method(s), so I hope my comments aren't putting you off.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Come on AL.....we are waiting to see your fig rooting method(s). Any chance of you posting them?

Dan


 o
RE: On being Right.

Mario,

"Being right is a lonely place"

I agree 100% with you.....I KNOW that I am right and have given sufficient information in this thread that ANYONE can verify my BOLD claims....am prepared to back up everything that I have written. As I stated earlier, this is a somewhat NEW technique that has evolved from prior learnings. I'm sorry that some will never understand why it works and my explantions are not good enough for them to understand.

However, Al too can be "right" in what he says. There are many roads that lead to Canada and more than one way to root a fig twig. I have used hydroponic methods, aeroponic methods, stick it in the "ground" methods, stick it in the "pot" methods, layering methods, etc. I have seen misting systems in operation and am familiar with the process. The method that I described is very simple,requires no special equipment, and is almost foolproof. I can GUARANTEE good results to those who exactly follow the method. I have stepped up to the plate, shared my written method with this audience, and am fully prepared to have this audience VERIFY my claims. Nothing of what I have written is in conflict with other methods. Doubters should give it a try before making comments.

Al........

Please try the method that I have written...and you too can verify my bold claims for yourself. I am able to make such claims only because I am 100% sure of the science behind the method. All of your questions will be explained in great detail when I do publish my work.

We would still like to see your written fig rooting method(s). It would be beneficial to the forum members to see another path to successful fig rooting.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 4, 10 at 9:45

I'm not saying this to be difficult or quarrelsome, but I've asked some very simple questions on several occasions, and to put forth the things you have, you must have the answers at your immediate disposal. To engage me in discussion could only be a learning experience for the forum if you can remain civil for the duration. I have no problem adhering to and keeping my conversation focused on the topic. I think that making bold claims and admitting that many things you say fly in the face of conventional wisdom and practice puts a heavy onus to answer questions on you.

I'm a busy guy, but I promise that I will take the time to write a thread about propagating from cuttings within the next week or so. No need to challenge me further on that topic.

So the forum can see that I'm not asking these questions out of a spirit of meanness, or to inflame, I would ask that you click on this link. It will take you to the GW search engine. I have entered the two search words 'Al and question'. When you get there, you will see that there are some 284 pages and more than 5,600 threads (not posts - threads), a very high % of which were started for the express purpose of asking me a question directly - almost all of them technical. I think this is pretty clear indication that I know what I'm talking about and folks at GW know that when I offer something they can rely on its veracity. Lord knows I've posted enough technical information on this forum. ;o) You can easily see my posts are offered in the spirit of helping, sharing, and making sure that members get good information w/o any fluff or conjecture. If the forum really has no interest in exploring this whole cutting thing from my perspective, and I suspect from the perspective of others once it's posted, then I'll say my piece when I post a new thread about cuttings & be out of your hair. ;o)I don't want to go through the effort of bringing multiple issues into the light if no one feels like being enlightened. I have way too many other venues I attend to where my thoughts are appreciated.

Take care.

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

When it comes to Science, I already stand in the light. We look forward to your cutting propagation thread.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan, you say, "I already stand in the light"

I got a chuckle out of that comment.

This is coming from the same Dan who told me last week that he "do(es) not see where it helps the novice rooter by providing the reasoning for all of those details......makes it look like fig rooting is more complicated than it really is."?

It seems to me that you provide a bunch of steps, and ignore explaining the science. Then you ignore answering legitimate scientific questions about the reasoning when inquired, for some reason.

As a science-oriented person, you should know that just because a method "works" doesn't mean every step is necessary, nor does it mean there is always "science" behind those steps.

For example, if I were to write up "how to start a gas grill", I can say that that you should circle three times before opening the gas valve, then click your heels twice before pushing the igniter button. Some people would do this blindly, without question, because I am an expert with gas grills. When it worked, they would say, "WOW! JASON SURE KNOWS HIS STUFF!", and they would use this method religiously, and support me to no end, praising me for my expertise.

Then, when someone like Al stopped to question, "why are you circling and clicking your heels, exactly?", they would probably jump him, side with you because your method "worked for me!". I understand this mentality, because it is prevalent in our society today in many ways, and in every aspect of our lives - DO as I say, but DO NOT question why.

It simply looks like to me Al is trying to point out some of these things which could use further explanation, as I did last week, and others have in the past. Al is asking you very clearly to discuss the science he has pointed out. So, why should it be that Your usual response - some might say it's like a broken record - is "Wait, where is your rooting method posted?" Why? Or, do you not answer because there is no adequate scientific answer in many cases?

I assure you, some of the common rooting methods being pushed on others have many unneccesary steps with them. If people understood the steps, they would see which ones are not necessary.

(Or is that what you're worried about?)


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Jason,

I have written literally hundreds of very technical and complex methods and procedures. I understand KEY steps in a procedure and don't put in any unnecessary steps. I did not get paid a six figure salary before I retired 5 years ago because of my Cajun accent. A major multi-national corporation paid me well because of my ability to use science to solve very complex industrial problems. Using the scientific tool known as "Root Cause Analysis", I have been able to make some things work where many others have failed and even said it cannot be done. Also this same scientific technique allows one to improve existing methods and procedures.

What you are seeing in the Improved Baggie Method is a product of using this technique. I have absolutely no desire to explain root cause analysis to anyone......google it and read away if interested. After reading, tell me this.........do you think very many people utilized this technique on a fig rooting method?????

I have no desire to "debate" or try to educate others beyond the level that I have already attempted. It is futile to present arguments are try to clarify to someone who already has ADMITTED to having a closed mind. I stand firmly on what I have already presented.......the proof is in the pudding. Try it..... and you will like it!!!

'nuff said. I anxiously await Al's new thread and I'm sure others do. It too should be some good stuff and an alternate method for rooters.


Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Al,
You definitely deserve some kind of a life-time-achievement award!
Me and other (seasoned) fig-people, often came specifically to
you with some very hard general questions, which you, unselfishly,
always did answer very well.
Thanks much.

Here is a link that might be useful: Al's Stuff


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 4, 10 at 17:07

Honest guys, I brought the baggie method to this forum years ago because I sometimes used it when I needed multiple cuttings of tropical figs for what we call forest plantings in bonsai. An example of a newly planted ficus forest from cuttings:

Photobucket

Off topic, I know, but I thought you might enjoy the picture.

Jason and Gorgi are making several points that have also been appearing in my mail from several of this forum's members. I'm saying this process is being made out to be much more complicated than it really is, and I strongly question many points that are being taken for granted as sound science. Figs are endowed with tremendous genetic vigor, and are among the most simple of woody material to root. On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the easy end, figs are about a 9.

I generally used the "baggie method" with a sterile medium, like perlite or screened Turface. I would never consider using an unsterile medium (potting soil) from a bag because it increases tremendously the potential for proliferation of the many rot organisms that do indeed make those mediums their home. When I post, I will also point to solid references that will show that fertilizers in the rooting medium are a hindrance to root formation and useless to the plant until AFTER roots have formed.

When we admittedly depart from conventional wisdom/practice, and buck so much of what is accepted as sound horticultural practice, there is an obligation to explain how we arrived at the point where we can call our assertions superior.

If you took a moment to look at the link I left upthread, you already know I'm very straightforward and don't posture, that I won't offer anything for your consideration that I cannot back with sound science and logic. I'm not being snotty when I say that I've been manipulating plants in ways that most of the forum has never heard of for many years. I'm smart enough to operate only within the limits of my knowledge, and propagation cuttings by a wide variety of techniques is well within those limits.

Hopefully, we'll soon be able to strike up a dialog that concentrates more on the aspects of why certain things work and understanding the principles behind propagation from cuttings. Understanding the process and these principles will leave you much better equipped for success and adaptation than will a set of directions. This type of learning empowers the propagator (you) instead of the teacher.

Thank you.

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Well Al, for what it's worth I ALWAYS listen & take heed to what you say.

Thanks

Regards
Cecil


 o
RE: Trying to get it right.

Those desiring any more explantion than what I have already given, will just have to wait until I publish my work. A reliable fig rooting method that consistently produces harden-off plantable trees is what some forum members are seeking. The Improve Baggie Method is ONE such method. The method is out there for anyone to give it a try.

Still can't wait to see your Al's written method. I'm sure it works well and is based on science as he knows it. Will be great for forum members to have MULTIPLE proven options.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan & Al,

If you can get to a common ground and avoid being vexatious, then discussion on this topic will be truly be a synergy of knowledge sharing, understanding, and maturing & eating figs.

To have a written, successful-for-many, achievable-by-fools rooting method (thanks Dan) *and* have an articulated, data-driven, 1st-principle based, reference-sighted, understanding of why this method works or is debatable, doesn't work, or can be modified (thanks Al) has been and will continue to be I-N-V-A-L-U-B-L-E for everyone.

Furthermore, the promise that each of you might assume the role of the other: Al as author of a method and Dan as scientific critic...interesting. May I add the caveat that both of you agree to disagree but not swipe, snipe, piss, or chip, i.e., be disagreeable? If so, phenomenal for this fig forum. If not, it will make for more highly-rated, entertaining reading with some really good stuff we need to consider.

That said, I can follow a recipe. For me, understanding why helps me to THINK, to REASON such that when problems arise, I can draw upon something viable and with a modicum of integrity when I do not have an experience to draw upon. In those instances, there is a balance - I do want to know why BUT first help me with win this mold war or help me get rid of these worms.

And still there is so much more that happens after the root initials and the roots. I still have to get from roots to cup, cup media, pot(s), pot media, and/or in the ground. I have seen Jose's (Los Lunas) photos and read Martin's posts. Both are 'successful' but by different means. For some of us, the destination is the objective, for others, it is all about the journey and knowing about EVERYTHING along the way, for a few, it is ALL of the above.

I trust that Dan and Al will honor what they have written here. I'll stay tuned...same fig time, same fig forum.

JD


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Gets bag of popcorn. Pulls up chair.

Rick


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

.........Glad ya'll are having fun. Figs are a lot of fun for me too. I'm deep into fig related research, deriving much satisfaction from these activities. I don't mind sharing SOME information when I know that it is helpful and is appreciated.

Seriously.....when AL does post his fig rooting method(s) it will be to the benefit of all forum members who are looking for alternate methods that may work better for them. Choice is a good thing and to have it documented and written down is even better. I will appreciate what he writes and have no intentions of being critical.

With regards to the exchanges we had on another thread: Remember, it was Al (not me) who for some reason felt a need to "stamp out mis-information" contained in one of my other posts. I did not take that too kindly and responded accordingly. I trust, that won't happen again as we both really desire to make good, useful information available to fellow forum members.

And what about our seasoned figger George, I'd like to see his rooting methods posted too. How about it Gorgi?? Would you please post your method(s) for the benefit of those who may prefer it your way? I've seen you make reference to it before but never posted to my knowledge. You just recently wanted to know my BIG SECRETS to single node rooting........so why don't you share??

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

AL and Dan (in alphabetical order),
I have great respect and affection for you both. You have both been most generous in giving your time to help those of us with less experience. Losing either of you would be a great loss to us all.
On the few times that I have posted, it has been because I thought that I had a small piece of information unknown to other members and I wanted to reciprocate to some small degree for all the information I had received.
My husband and I are "pushing" 70. (He says, "Don't push.") I have had reasonable success in fig rooting and growing on (50-75%), thanks to many members. I was disappointed when a recipient did not pay for shipping for free fig trees but I guess that happens and is not a reflection on most members. I have been dazzled that there are people out there that are as much "plant nuts" as I am. What a revelation! I used to keep better records than I do now. Guess it's time to reform.

Cecil,
Thank you so much for help with computers. You make it a lot easier. Husband is great with computers but husbands are not always the best teachers for wives. And I have not forgotten that I said I would try to learn how to post pictures this year. I still have your instructions printed out. (I don't trust computers. They lose the darndest things.)

Martin,
Your posts are charming and you look like a young "whippersnapper".

Fignut and LosLunas and you too, Svanessa,
I always appreciate your posts. They always have something of value.

And All The Rest,
You seem to be wonderful people!

Cath

P.S. I miss Maggie an Sandsquid and BJS.


Cat


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Hi Cath,

I'm glad that maybe we could help ya.....I'm gonna try to help some more

I wish I was only 70......gotcha by 2.5 years!

regards
Cecil


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Yes, there are definitely some fig crazy people on this forum.....me too. I was just kidding Martin on another thread about the dangers of "having room for one more fig plant". I slowly "one mored" myself to over 200 fig trees. But, I love to study the fruiting characteristics of many varieties so that I increase the odds of my finding the best varieties for my growing area. I am honored in that a local University has recognized my collection & work as significant and will be making visits to my orchard.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Rick said "Gets bag of popcorn. Pulls up chair. "
That may be good for those who just want to be observers only.

There may be others, including some of the observers, who may not be botanists or Scientist but may have common sense and some experience who may want to disagree with some statement in a thread. My question is if someone has a different view on a statement, why can't he express it for the benefit of the discussion without having to have his own 'baggie method' or 'improved baggie method' or "modified-improved baggie method" and then having it posted too.

We need to hear from everyone with Scientific knowledge, practical experience, personal observation and even folklores of the past and then make our own decisions how to proceed. I doubt that there will be a method with absolute success all the time since many have expressed their views that the history and nature of the cutting has a lot to do with the success and failure of the cuttings.
If the difference of opinion hardens up between some posters, they can simply say that this is my view based on my knowledge and observations and that is the other's view base on his/her knowledge and observation and let the member choose for themselves, but there should not be any kind of taunts because of difference of opinion. Of course most, if not all, feed bad about such situation and more so if members with good information abandons a thread.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan would love to see some pics of your orchid and some of the rare fig varieties you have collected over the years. Maybe you can post some pics of figs we normally don't see when season comes along. I'm sure your hard work is being recognized and if they decide to print an article it would be great to see and read.
Thanks Sal


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Sal,
My orchard is still very young and nowhere near as nice as some others that I've seen. Unfortunately, I have no intentions of EVER posting pictures on this forum....saving them for possible publication one day. The Universities receive no money for fig related activities. Sadly, their only source of knowledge of new cultivars that do well in our climate will only come from guys like me. It is much the same all over our country. Any new promising fig variety that eventually makes it to the larger nurseries will likely be due to the work done by forum members. There are no doubt many other little known heirloom figs out there that ONLY forum members will discover its unique traits and possibly save from the bulldozers. Some will have exceptional fruiting characteristics and it would be a shame for it to be forever lost.

One of my goals is to identify varieties that are rain tolerant, bug resistant, and fruit at different times of the year. Sure would be nice to the necessary variety plantings that would provide fruit from Mid June and thru the month of November in my area. There are many old timers in my State that are surprised to hear that good tasting figs can be had outside of the short Celeste fruiting season. The local Cooperative Extension Service cannot give them much fig related information.....and that is the same situation in other States. It should not be overlooked that quite a few members of this forum are doing some great work in finding out how to successfully grow great tasting figs outside of its preferred Mediterranean type climate. Collectively we are doing some really neat stuff.

Ox,
I agree with most of what you have expressed. Yes, it is sad when egos, envy, anger, revenge, misunderstandings, cultural differences, and other silly things get in the way. I am as guilty as many others in this regard. Maybe the shunning and cliques that exist will ond day stop too.

Sometimes one learns more from failures than they do from success...I know that I do. I've killed enough fig wood to build a house before I finally FIGured it out.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Funny Dan,

I said the same thing earlier. I killed hundreds of pieces of fig wood before I got any good. I would say now that I found hundreds of ways that DIDN'T work, but with that discovered a few that gave my my rooting successes so far!


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Hi Cath41
now i understand the 41 part i think.
You have a few seasons on me yes. Oh im not sure about the young (scrolling up) to spell that word whippersnapper but retirement has been treating me well.
Now if spring would arrive i might feel like a young Whippersnapper, i keep telling my younger wife you feel pains now just wait another 6 to 7 years .
You take care -
and as always
"Best Health"
Martin


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

I've learned to LISTEN to what others have to say.....real gems of information often come to us in a soft whisper.

I'll give you one example.....

Changes had been made to our refinery waste-water treating facility. Shortly after the changes were made we sometimes had a difficult time in meeting the pH of our waste-water. This situation went on for a couple of months and was becoming very problematic to our facility operations. An outside operator engaged me in a friendly conversation one morning and told me that he had figured out how to solve our pH problem. He told me that in order to be able to meet the pH spec, we must "only pump the water at night".

Well, I took him at his word and pulled up the data and sure enough there was a correlation between pH and the time of the day......just like the operator had observed. With this information in hand, I eventually figured out the reason for the high pH water. It was caused simply by algae growing in the water because the water was so clean. Algal photosynthesis involves pulling acidic carbon dioxide out of the water thereby raising the pH of the water in the process. Lots of good work went into fixing this problem. We had to present our data to the EPA and were successful in re-negotiating both our Federal and State waste-water discharge permits. This in turn significantly impacted our operations.....all because an operator told me something over a cup of coffee. Had I just brushed off his simple solution of "pump only at night"....who knows how long it would have taken our then arrogant technical group to permanently fix the problem.

Over my working career, we have solved MANY such technical problems by listening (and not arguing or challenging) what other people have to say. Many many millions of dollars were saved over the years by our technical group by simply listening and BELIEVING in what others closest to the job at hand have to say.

Bottom line....I hope that forum members always feel free to discuss their findings good or bad. Who knows when another GEM of wisdom will come to us in another soft whisper in a post on this forum.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Al posted his fig rooting method on another thread as follows:

"I've rooted thousands of deciduous cuttings by sticking in a damp, sterile medium and applying bottom heat to keep the cuttings in the 70-75* range. I normally provide some type of tenting to keep humidity very high, but vent the tent. Keeping air temps a little cooler than soil temps (10*) is also helpful. I remove bottom heat a soon as the cuttings have struck.
Because heating pads (for people - and if that's what you are using) feel warm to the touch even at low settings, we know they produce temperatures higher than body temps, so temperatures of 100* and higher should be expected, even at low settings. This is too high for either seeds or seedlings unless you use some sort of insulating barrier between the pad and the container holding the seeds/seedlings. Additionally, they are not intended for continual/long-term use or to be left unattended because of possible fire/electrical hazards. This would be especially true because you'll need some kind of insulator between the container and the pad to keep soil temps in a favorable range, which could cause the pads to become hotter than they might when used for what they are intended for."

Al

Forum Members,

I am sure that Al's method does work. However, it does require special equipment and is prone to having problems. For those of you who do not like to use baggies for rooting....one can achieve the same (better in my opinion) results as Al's method by following the Improved Baggie Method that I posted earlier in this thread.....but, skip the initial baggie steps. Simply put your "cleaned" cuttings directly into a UPM/perlite mix in pastic cups and exactly follow the directions I have given above. You also don't have to use the peat pots in the plastic rooting cups if you don't want to. However, it does significantly help in preventing root disturbance when up-potting your cuttings into their final containers.

The 70 to 75 degree rooting temperature that Al has recommended in his method is in really the "room temperature" which I have always recommend in my method written above. A heating pad or seed propagation mat under a "CLOSED" INDOOR ROOTING ENVIRONMENT is simply NOT NEEDED and often causes many more problems than it is helpful......even if it is "temperature controlled". It is not needed so why use something that can cause problems???

Either rooting method will work.......however, you will find one much easier and less problematic than the other. You now have several choices and that is a good thing.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

I potted my figs today into plastic cups with pine fines and perlite. I've got them in another larger container. There's in a place where the temperature should remain fairly constant and around 70 degrees, maybe a little higher. I hope to have roots by mid March.

The reason I'm using this mix is because I've used it indoors before. It holds enough moisture to root hardwood cuttings, and seems to keep the mold down. Last year I tried store bought potting mix and lost most of the cuttings indoors. Outside, I just stuck them in a container of sand and peat and planted the rooted stick in July where it spent the winter. I'm going to have some dieback since this was an exceptionally long, cold, wet winter. About 18" of growth has turned a little soft. Closer to the ground, the wood is still firm. I figure since this fig came from the next street over, it would be hardy here if allowed to get some roots down before winter. We had our first frost on Dec 5. That was a few days short of 6 months in the ground.

Here they are in the spring of last year. They leafed out in the shade of some large trees. I didn't do anything special. I just stuck them and walked away. We received a lot of rain last spring, so the humidity levels were always high.

I'll be using the same method on more of this variety this coming year. They're being stored in the fridge. Others are being stored outside on the north side of the house in moist sand. No harm in trying several methods if I can reach the same conclusion as this year.

I am using the baggie/container method inside on a few cuttings that I really want. I'm not willing to entrust them to the elements like I did the locally grown ones.

It's nice though to read about all the methods others are using. The principles are the key. Moisture, air, correct temperature and time. Those seems to be the keys to success.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 11, 10 at 14:38

Come on, Dan. You copy paste a reply to an unrelated question on another thread and unilaterally label it as "my method" so you can be critical - that's weak, but funny.

I said I'll post a thread about cuttings soon, and as soon as I get a couple of free hours, I will.

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Since when is it being critical or funny to point out differences and/or similarities in rooting methods that can affect ones rooting success? Aren't you the same guy who found it "laughable" when I initially wrote about an "Improved" baggie method? What's so funny about a very simple, detailed method...requiring no special equipment...that can be used indoors and year round by anyone.....and consistently attains a very high success rate? Do you not see any merit in the procedure(s) that I have posted? ........I'm sure others do.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Why bump a thread that was at the end of its life just to reiterate how much simpler and better yuor method is?

When I realized that this thread was almost a week old before it got bumped to make that one remark (I didn't notice at first), it seemed a little trite. But that's just me.

I'm starting to hope we can just get over the "which method is best and easiest" nonsense.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 12, 10 at 8:54

I agree.

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by gorgi z6b NJ (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 12, 10 at 12:17

Ditto.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by k2marsh Atlanta, GA 7a (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 12, 10 at 14:14

Timing is the key.

If you just like to play use the bag method. Otherwise make hardwood cuttings.

Now is about the time to take hardwood cuttings. I took a few and put them in the refrigerator in case my figs froze.

I just take cuttings with about 3 nodes, and take a 3/4 inch pipe and drive it in the ground where I want the fig to grow. I put the cutting in the ground. Keep it watered, and wait for it to grow. It's supposed to be 80 or 85 percent that grow.

Check out the link below and see how cuttings are started professionally.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hardwood cuttings. Fig Progragation


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Bump

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by gorgi z6b NJ (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 13:29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_(Internet)


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

One doesn't have to go to wikipedia to understand bumping. Bumping is used on quite a few of the Garden Web forums to keep a thread alive and the discussion on going. Some threads are worth bumping just to prevent them from disappearing into cyberspace.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan, I have a Wikipedia page you may consider. ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: This is posted in jest, hope you take it the right way.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Now is about the time to take hardwood cuttings. I took a few and put them in the refrigerator in case my figs froze.

I just take cuttings with about 3 nodes, and take a 3/4 inch pipe and drive it in the ground where I want the fig to grow. I put the cutting in the ground. Keep it watered, and wait for it to grow. It's supposed to be 80 or 85 percent that grow.

I've done that too. Last week I stuck a few branches from the black mission I had in storage in the ground. I know it works with butterfly bushes, so figs should be just as simple. I'm also trying crape myrtles using that method. Just in case, I'm trying some indoor methods as well, to make sure I have plenty of fig trees in my yard. Thanks for the link. It's good info.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

k2marsh missed a big point here. The forum is attended by people from all over the world including areas where there is no luxury of sticking the cuttings into ground in northern locations and see it shooting in midsummer of the location and then dig it out for the winter to pot it and take it inside.
Baggie or other similar methods are not for playing but necessity to get a headstart with making a cutting into a plant and place the plant outside in the late spring and see it grow bigger during the summer.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Jason,

I am not beating a dead horse nor trying to be argumentative. I am just trying to be helpful to others. When you read my post in this thread you assumed that you knew my intent.... You are wrong.

Your post reads:
""I'm starting to hope we can just get over the "which method is best and easiest" nonsense.>"

If you would have looked at my earlier posts in this thread you would have seen and maybe realized that this thread contains much of the details of the Improved Baggie Method. My INTENT on adding AL's method to this thread was to clarify to those following this thread the equivalency, simplicity, and versatility of this proven baggie method to what Al had posted in another thread. Some people could use such information. I know that it is accurate.

You should try to remember that it is very difficult to gauge one's true INTENT through only written words. My intent in all my posts it to be informative and helpful. Those who want to "stamp out misinformation" on anything that I've posted can expect me to become very argumentative.....popcorn time as some have called it. There can be no doubt about Al's intent when he directed at me the following quote........."Specializing in stamping out misinformation". Perhaps some should question why was that directed at me in the first place???

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Dan,

From one cajun (i prefer 'coonass') to another cajun, I suffer from your aforementioned affliction of coming off sounding harsh. That's why I said it was a joke.

Admittedly, sometimes there are truths in jokes. For example, when one person is persistently harping on a specific point, this resembles beating of a dead horse.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Jason, in this instance there is no truth in your joke. Another post was added to this thread by me to FURTHER enlighten and enhance what I had already written. I may well choose to bump it up again when additional information becomes available or further clarifications are needed.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Truth is never a requirement in humor! Sometimes it is the illusion of truth or the total lack of truth which provides the most fun!


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Thank you, Dan, this is very helpful! There are several things that I am doing wrong that can be corrected. I am surprised that there is not more perlite in your growing medium... I have used way too much.
Thanks again!
Susan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

No such thing as too much perlite :)


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

You should obtain good results using this "tried and true" rooting method.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 27, 10 at 10:16

Possum - there are a significant number of tried and true methods used to root woody material as vigorous as figs. Paying attention to sound principles of propagation is far more important than which of the several excellent methods of propagation you choose. I often use 100% perlite as a propagation medium, though I prefer 100% screened Turface.

Al


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Possum,

The method I have described above follows very sound principles of propagation. It it 'tried and true' to the extent that it is practical, requires no special equipment, completely documented (in written form), very easy to use, and consistently yields a near 100% success rate in producing new fig trees.

Dan


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

I have never propagated a fig, and I couldn't find any Step 1, 2, 3 instructions to the baggie method (evidently they have been removed, and it's frustrating to read verbal wars)!!

I googled the subject and found an interesting thread (which I lost after I copied the thing), but it was from an old timer who doesn't like to waste his time with much science.

He just explained he lays his cuttings down in a 1.5" trench in a protected place and crumbles light dirt over them. He claims one 6" cutting will produce 2 or 3 plants, and he doesn't need to do one thing. After they go dormant, he digs them up, separates them, and moves them to where he wants them.

Since I have UC Davis cuttings coming out my ears, I'm going to cut them into 6" pieces, and try his method. I'm not greedy! I don't want 300% success! They sent 3 cuttings per variety, and I wouldn't know what to do with all those figs!!

The other cuttings will probably get split between my best understanding of the baggie method, and some propagating containers with perlite and peat moss. I'm going to try it 3 ways, but my gut is going with the old timer!!


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

desertdance, this might help I know Jon must of put alot a time and effort into this but it is simple and very illustated.He will be the first to state that there are many methods and this is just one of many.
http://figs4fun.com/basics.html
Sal


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Thank You Sal!! That was a great site, and very helpful. I've been in sales my whole life, and if you get too technical, you go over the heads of the buyer, and you lose the sale. Pictures say a thousand words. I like that he gives more than one option, also.

Refreshing to get away from the "my dad is better than your dad," bickering!

I'll try at least 3 of the methods. I'm willing to bet a rooted cutting or two that the old timer's method works best!

Thanks so much!

Suzi


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

So far, the ones I stuck in the ground a few weeks ago look like they're budding. I won't know if they've rooted for a while. I've lost several using the baggie method after overwatering when transferring to a heavier medium.

From now on, I'll just stick all my cuttings where I want them to grow and forget about them.


 o
RE: Trying to get the timing right.

Suzi glad you found that helpful on a side note I don't root much from cuttings per se I've only done 30-40 the past 2 yrs. most if not all have ben passed to friends and family and are doing well as far as I know. With that said I go straight to clear cups with a light potting mix that I add extra perlite to just barely moist with a dome cover. I air out a few hours when I remember and they have rooted well for me so far. IMHO it is not rocket science, provide a light growing medium so the young tender roots can penetrate some moisture and humidity,temps of 65-75 and nature does the rest
Sal


 o
rooting cuttings from 100 year old fig tree

My grandmother had a fig tree that is still producing a few figs every year. It would be approx. 100 years old now or even older. I am 83 and it has been there all my life. I do not know the variety but the figs are large and a beautiful light green when ripe. I have tried to root cuttings for two years now without success. I am wondering if the tree is too old to produce new trees. I am attempting to root the cuttings in a mixture of perlite and Peat moss inside my home which is maintained at 75 degrees all year. I live in the country in lower South Carolina. Your advice will be immensely appreciated. John Steinmeyer at jsteinmeyer12@gmail.com


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Fig Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here